Sam's not a great character. Potential Spoilers

[Tok'Ra Hostess]

My current gripe is as to Sam's blatant Mary Suism when it comes down to being able to do everything.

I liked how, in Brief Candle, she didn't understand why the guys thought she'd know anything about delivering babies,and in Singularity she's helpless before Cassie's medical problems, but then, in later eps I'm turned off by the fact that she's assisting with complex, invasive medical proceedures.

Can fly a fighter jet.

I mean O'Neill being pilot trained is bad enough, but Sam is ridiculous.

Okay, I don't get why this is a bad thing. She's air force; why would it be unreasonable that she took her pilot training? Walter the Chevron dude flies a desk all the time and yet he qualifies to fly the Prometheus.

[Flyboy]

I liked how, in Brief Candle, she didn't understand why the guys thought she'd know anything about delivering babies,and in Singularity she's helpless before Cassie's medical problems, but then, in later eps I'm turned off by the fact that she's assisting with complex, invasive medical proceedures.




Okay, I don't get why this is a bad thing. She's air force; why would it be unreasonable that she took her pilot training? Walter the Chevron dude flies a desk all the time and yet he qualifies to fly the Prometheus.

Air Force does NOT automatically imply Pilot.

Walter is a computer technician and it is not a huge leap to see him being trained to interface with Prometheus' computers.

Upon joining the Air Force you are trained in your field. A pilot recieves VERY expensive training. He will not recieve advanced field training, nor would an AF Officer trained for field combat recieve pilot training. You might not think its a big deal. I do. Why? Because the Air Force DOESN'T work like that.

Pilot training lasts at least a whole year. And one would only recieve that training if flying the planes/helicopters was actually going to be your job.

Sam was a research scientist in the Air Force, she studied the Stargate and other weapons research I expect. You don't chop and change professions. A scientist would not become a pilot or vice versa. Usually career directional changes only occur with promotion, and they're only with assuming command of a base and no longer being what you might call front line.

[luthienberen]

My current gripe is as to Sam's blatant Mary Suism when it comes down to being able to do everything.

I propose we make a list of every skill that Carter apparently has.

So far I know the following:

Studied Nano-technology
Studied Medical science
Studied the Stargate EXTENSIVELY
Can fly a fighter jet.
Is field combat trained.
Is a skilled mechanic and engineer.


Anyone got more?

I mean O'Neill being pilot trained is bad enough, but Sam is ridiculous.

Is a whiz with computers to the extent that if there ANY problems with the base computers SHE is called in ... as if the USAF wouldn't trian people SPECIFICALLY for that role. What happens when she isn't there? The base is vulnerable?

It's amazing she has time to go through the 'gate, sleep and eat with all these amazing talents she apparently posseses. As Jack said to Daniel in 'Message in a Bottle' you can't have both when Daniel wanted more time to work on the Device. You're on thre flag ship team that means the main research is for those scientists and academics that do not go through the 'gate 90%-100% of the time.

[luthienberen]

Air Force does NOT automatically imply Pilot.

Walter is a computer technician and it is not a huge leap to see him being trained to interface with Prometheus' computers.

Upon joining the Air Force you are trained in your field. A pilot recieves VERY expensive training. He will not recieve advanced field training, nor would an AF Officer trained for field combat recieve pilot training. You might not think its a big deal. I do. Why? Because the Air Force DOESN'T work like that.

Pilot training lasts at least a whole year. And one would only recieve that training if flying the planes/helicopters was actually going to be your job.

Sam was a research scientist in the Air Force, she studied the Stargate and other weapons research I expect. You don't chop and change professions. A scientist would not become a pilot or vice versa. Usually career directional changes only occur with promotion, and they're only with assuming command of a base and no longer being what you might call front line.

I'd be surprised that the USAF (or any military) would be willing to watch so much money waltz through the 'gate. After all that is what their troops are at the end of the day: money. A fully trianed solider, especially with Carter's apparent skills, would mean thousand of dollars disappearing and be risked through the 'gate every time she went through.

Realistically would she - or Daniel for that matter - be risked in such a manner constantly on the flag ship team? Even if the USAf were willing to invest so much in Carter's trianing in so many diverse roles, many of which she wouldn't be using for most of time.

[Flyboy]

Is a whiz with computers to the extent that if there ANY problems with the base computers SHE is called in ... as if the USAF wouldn't trian people SPECIFICALLY for that role. What happens when she isn't there? The base is vulnerable?

It's amazing she has time to go through the 'gate, sleep and eat with all these amazing talents she apparently posseses. As Jack said to Daniel in 'Message in a Bottle' you can't have both when Daniel wanted more time to work on the Device. You're on thre flag ship team that means the main research is for those scientists and academics that do not go through the 'gate 90%-100% of the time.

Exactly. Now I appreciate that she is the foremost expert on the gate. But if that is the case and she is the only one who can fix certain problems then she should NOT be going through the Stargate unless it is absolutely necessary.

Daniel however usually needs to be out there. He's a linguist afterall...

Further more, Walter and Siler should be able to figure out most of the gate's problems. They are Gate TECHNICIANS, it's their job to trouble shoot. Then we have the other scientists on base. Dr Lee for example. They all pale in comparison to Wondrous Sam. It's rather horrific to wathc these AMAZING academics look like an idiotic school boy that has just written the wrong answer on the black board.

Sam really does never get it wrong and I find that disgusting. She needs to try to step in and have Walter say "It's ok Colonal, I can handle this" or have Dr Lee beat her at something, just make her more human for God's sake.

[Arlessiar]

I did a search and the only thread that came up was the "Sam's a great character" thread.

No, really, there was a thread with an almost identical name like this one.

I did a search, too, and I found these two Anti threads that already exist for a while:

Disillusioned with Sam Carter

and

Anti-Carter thread. For complaints about the character only

Bye, A.

[Flyboy]

I did a search, too, and I found these two Anti threads that already exist for a while:

Disillusioned with Sam Carter

and

Anti-Carter thread. For complaints about the character only

Bye, A.

I will point out now, that the search facility is rubbish. Earlier I did a search for a thread that I actually KNEW existed, and it failed to turn up. I had to look for it manually.

[luthienberen]

Exactly. Now I appreciate that she is the foremost expert on the gate. But if that is the case and she is the only one who can fix certain problems then she should NOT be going through the Stargate unless it is absolutely necessary.

Daniel however usually needs to be out there. He's a linguist afterall...

I agree. If she is the only one who can fix certain problems there is no way that she would be allowed through that 'gate unless ABSOLUTELY necessary!

Daniel, yes, he is a lingusit and we need all the linguists we can get (though since most aliens appear to speak English - American English at that - it sometimes to be an 'uncessary' post).

Further more, Walter and Siler should be able to figure out most of the gate's problems. They are Gate TECHNICIANS, it's their job to trouble shoot. Then we have the other scientists on base. Dr Lee for example. They all pale in comparison to Wondrous Sam. It's rather horrific to wathc these AMAZING academics look like an idiotic school boy that has just written the wrong answer on the black board.

Sam really does never get it wrong and I find that disgusting. She needs to try to step in and have Walter say "It's ok Colonal, I can handle this" or have Dr Lee beat her at something, just make her more human for God's sake.

This is what disgusts me most about the character (and TPTB). Apparently, the US military employs all these civilian scientists, military scientists and technicians, who are COMPLETELY USELESS at their jobs. It beggars belief and makes the character not look good but arrogant and unrealistic beyond supsension of belief.

MissNationalTreasure or WonderSam is not a likeable character. All around her are made to look incompetent idiots (why, all of a sudden, is Jack unable to understand a pilot's maual in Space Race when it is established in canon that he was a pilot?) so that she can shine and be passed off as MissPerfect who has no equals.

I think an example of this (her 'Perfection') is when McKay pionts out in the S6 opener (or is it in S5 48 Hours~ cannot remember exactly ~ ) how dangerous her bypassing the protocols of the 'gate are. He is made to look like the villian while she gets off stocth free ... no matter that her ignorance of Stargate protocol have resulted in the situation in Red Sky.

No one is allowed to criticise or say 'no thanks, we know what we are doing', and so the result is, that all around her these QUALIFIED individuals are turned into clowns - and that includes Jack as well.

[luthienberen]

I will point out now, that the search facility is rubbish. Earlier I did a search for a thread that I actually KNEW existed, and it failed to turn up. I had to look for it manually.

I don't think it matters. The mods haven't closed or locked this thread so it obviously doesn't matter if this is a 'repeat'. It is nice to meet new opinions and open fresh discussions a topic - Thank you Flying Officer Bennett!

[luthienberen]

Anyone else think that ship (particulary Jack/Sam) destroyed her character?

I know this isn't the anti-J/S thread and I don't plan turning into one. I just feel that this ship had a direct affect on how Samantha Carter was portrayed in later Seasons, from S4 onwards and particulary in S7 =>.

I just feel it did not do the character of Sam Carter any favours when they were already lauding her having all these skills.

[Flyboy]

Youre very right, especially on the McKay issue. I mean, he IS the superior mind in my opinion, but the SGC holds the (usually admirable) mentality of "we look after our own". That's fine UNLESS your own makes mistakes.

[diversky]

This is what disgusts me most about the character (and TPTB). Apparently, the US military employs all these civilian scientists, military scientists and technicians, who are COMPLETELY USELESS at their jobs. It beggars belief and makes the character not look good but arrogant and unrealistic beyond supsension of belief.

MissNationalTreasure or WonderSam is not a likeable character. All around her are made to look incompetent idiots (why, all of a sudden, is Jack unable to understand a pilot's maual in Space Race when it is established in canon that he was a pilot?) so that she can shine and be passed off as MissPerfect who has no equals.

I think an example of this (her 'Perfection') is when McKay pionts out in the S6 opener (or is it in S5 48 Hours~ cannot remember exactly ~ ) how dangerous her bypassing the protocols of the 'gate are. He is made to look like the villian while she gets off stocth free ... no matter that her ignorance of Stargate protocol have resulted in the situation in Red Sky.

No one is allowed to criticise or say 'no thanks, we know what we are doing', and so the result is, that all around her these QUALIFIED individuals are turned into clowns - and that includes Jack as well.

Word to your entire post. I'm tired of MarySueSam being the only one who can do anything. I'm surprised she hasn't taken Daniel's job yet.

[Caldwell's 2IC]

I really liked Carter at first, but now I'm this close to hate her, basically for all the reasons given above. You guys just gave all the military/logic reasons. Here's a few more personal stuff : Remember that episode where she kept repeating "as Colonel O'Neill is well aware of..." ( or something like that ) in that you-are-a-jerk sweet sarcastic way every time Jack made a comment ??? I just hated that disrespect.

Then came the Pete business. She was allowed to hang out with the police officer but Jack couldn't get a decent relationship with Kerry ( CIA woman ) ???

Now

Spoiler:

she's taking over Atlantis !!!

Enough is enough.

[Commander Ivanova]

I will point out now, that the search facility is rubbish. Earlier I did a search for a thread that I actually KNEW existed, and it failed to turn up. I had to look for it manually.

You're right about the search 'function' - cos it doesn't, mainly.

You're also bang on about Carter generally, little miss too-good-to-be-true.

[luthienberen]

I really liked Carter at first, but now I'm this close to hate her, basically for all the reasons given above. You guys just gave all the military/logic reasons. Here's a few more personal stuff : Remember that episode where she kept repeating "as Colonel O'Neill is well aware of..." ( or something like that ) in that you-are-a-jerk sweet sarcastic way every time Jack made a comment ??? I just hated that disrespect.

Then came the Pete business. She was allowed to hang out with the police officer but Jack couldn't get a decent relationship with Kerry ( CIA woman ) ???

Now

Spoiler:

she's taking over Atlantis !!!

Enough is enough.

I dislike Carter for personal reasons as well. I consider her an immoral, self-serving and compeltley callous being. The way she treated Pete (and then expected him to grovel at her feet when she broke off with him), the way she forgot the human factor in A Matter of Time because all that mattered was the Black Hole ...

Her stalking of Jack was also digusting - I considered the whole Carter/Jack thing onesided from Carter's and felt that Jack made it very clear that he didn't even like her, let alone loved her!

The way she brushed off Cassie's pain in Heroes ...

These are just a few examples.

No, as a human being Carter is a poor example.

And I feel sorry for those people watching Atlantis.