The Sam & Jack Shippers' Archive

[auralan]

My humble response

<snip>

As to number 2...The reason it is in the off-topic section is because it is off-topic. Off-topic threads do not add to post counts. Not being a forum expert, I think post counts are important because it opens up special perks for members. There are some GateWorlders who would say "ship" and "thunk" threads are spam posting. I know "heresy!" I think the off-topic's location is somewhat of a hinderance, but this is the Gate World we live in. [/color]

Okay, seriously this is a lousy argument in my book: I don't want to move the OT posts to OT because it doesn't add to my post count there. Um ... OT posts aren't supposed to add to your post count. The whole reason OT doesn't count is because the intent of the post count system is to give people credit/additional features for participating in Stargate discussion.

One big reason the thunk and shipper threads are whined about by other posters is there are a lot of "cheap" posts that really add nothing to Stargate discussion in them. Lets not feed that fire of complaints by making the argument ourselves that we want somewhere to chatter that'll also up our post counts. That's not going to fly with the mods. That's not going to endear us to other groups of posters. That's sticking a bullseye on our thread and asking for trouble.

You want to chatter here because of the community aspect? Fine. Good argument. I sympathize with that one and hope we can find a way to keep that in some form.

You want to up your post count? Fine, but don't list that as a reason to keep the chatter here. It'll more likely get the whole thread (and the rest of the ship and thunk threads) kicked straight to OT land. It's not like the mods haven't heard that suggestion more than once.

[Token]

Whoops! Didn't we already resolve this the last time it came up? I thought we were okay with posting off topic stuff here as long as it pertained to our happy little shipper family. I can only talk so much about Threads and then my mind wanders

I think we resolved the issue with the rename of the Thread. Since that happened, it is now possible for a GateWorld member to start a "On Topic Only ship discussion" if that member so chooses. It is not or will not be disrepectful to me if that Thread is opened. Some GateWorlders prefer a Thread that is On Topic and some members prefer to have On Topic plus Personal. Both kinds of GateWorlders should be allowed to have a voice and not confined to one Thread or the other. It is not "splitting up" the Family; it is giving the Shipper Family a choice. A choice to enjoy one or BOTH Threads depending on the Shipper. What is wrong with that? Choice is good. The problem before was that GateWorld didn't want duplicate threads so we changed the name of this Thread so another "On Topic" thread could exist if it was wanted. No one has made the effort to start that Thread. One thing I have noticed about forums and threads is that it takes EFFORT to keep a thread alive and moving. This thread doesn't seem to have a problem moving because we have a big Family to share the load. JMHO

Whats going to happen to this thread after Moebuis airs? It seems like we would have to have some OT to keep the thread going. It gets boring rehashing the same thing over and over again. I don't think we are going to get that much Sam/Jack ship in season 9. Maybe a reference to or a one-sided phone conversation.

I agree. When the Season ends, this thread will cycle back to being somewhat more fluffy than other times. This Family Thread cycles with the types of discussion that occur. It is the EFFORT of the Shippers here to keep this Thread alive and moving. Season 9 will be very meager with ship so it will take even more EFFORT to keep this Thread alive and on the first page.

[sueKay]

I'd like to say at this point I am backing out of the argument.


I'll be elsewhere until it's sorted.

[Kri]

I think we resolved the issue with the rename of the Thread. Since that happened, it is now possible for a GateWorld member to start a "On Topic Only ship discussion" if that member so chooses. It is not or will not be disrepectful to me if that Thread is opened. Some GateWorlders prefer a Thread that is On Topic and some members prefer to have On Topic plus Personal. Both kinds of GateWorlders should be allowed to have a voice and not confined to one Thread or the other. It is not "splitting up" the Family; it is giving the Shipper Family a choice. A choice to enjoy one or BOTH Threads depending on the Shipper. What is wrong with that? Choice is good. The problem before was that GateWorld didn't want duplicate threads so we changed the name of this Thread so another "On Topic" thread could exist if it was wanted. No one has made the effort to start that Thread. One thing I have noticed about forums and threads is that it takes EFFORT to keep a thread alive and moving. This thread doesn't seem to have a problem moving because we have a big Family to share the load. JMHO

I thought this is what had happened. I just had not paid any attention to see an On Topic Only Shipper thread, because quite frankly, I have always liked the mix of topics here, just as they are. What I was surprised by is that this was all being discussed again. No biggie!

[Kri]

I'd like to say at this point I am backing out of the argument.


I'll be elsewhere until it's sorted.

Don't leave. Just come here and discuss what you came here to discuss! RDA is hot. OOOPS! That would go in a "THUNK" thread. Hmm... RDA needs to come to Dallas and visit Kri. Nope, that would belong in the "Kri's Vivid Imagination Thread" How about Jack and Sam need to get it on? Yeah! That fits here!

[auralan]

I agree. When the Season ends, this thread will cycle back to being somewhat more fluffy than other times. This Family Thread cycles with the types of discussion that occur. It is the EFFORT of the Shippers here to keep this Thread alive and moving. Season 9 will be very meager with ship so it will take even more EFFORT to keep this Thread alive and on the first page.

At the same time, if there's very little relevant to Sam/Jack ship being discussed, why is the conversation happening in a Sam/Jack thread in a discussion area of the forum? Isn't that exactly the purpose of a chatter thread in OT? This thread is in the Stargate Genera Discussion after all. That tends to presume we'll be discussing soemthing related to stargate. Should the thread then be moved to OT because we don't expect to have much Stargate related discussion in the future?

Threads can decrease in activity without the world ending. This doesn't have to be a high volume thread if there's nothing to discuss. Talking just to keep talking is silly in a discussion area of the forum. People can find the thread on page two. Nothing says it has to stay on the first page.

Not that I even begin to see where there's nothing to discuss. There are eight seasons of episodes that contain Sam and Jack. Surely we can find things to discuss about Sam and Jack, If we can't, maybe the thread deserves to be less active and the conversations about other things can go to other more appropriate places.

Edited to add: Basically, if the thread's just here to be on the front page, have a huge volume of posts, and up people's post counts, count me out. I'm here because I want to discuss Sam and Jack. Frequently there are a lot of posts in this thread without much Sam/Jack content and clearly some people intend to up the fluff content in the off season to keep up the volume of posts. Personally, I'd much rather read a thread that slips down to page two or three sometimes with topical posts than one that's always on the top page that's filled with OT fluff.

[Token]

I'd like to say at this point I am backing out of the argument.


I'll be elsewhere until it's sorted.

What argument? Aren't we having a discussion? Didn't Ship Mum ask for options/feedback? Did I miss something??

[Oma-1]

Hi everyone!

Having spent an hour or so catching up on 12 pages of posts since friday (wow this family is productive!) I have to give you all a round of applause! Conversation has been stimulating and thought provoking and I've really enjoyed reading all the different perspectives on Threads and S/J ship in general. Pics and vids have been great! And WELCOME TO ALL THE NEWBIES!!! These are the strengths of this thread.

That said, here's my 2p!

PDL as I thought that was a great idea!

Spoiler:

Then no-one would have been able to take seriously and there would never have been any question that he was competition for Jack! All that heartache would have been spared!

I love PDL. He's great, commentaries are great, love his directing (remember his initials reflecting in the infirmary window during T's Mal Sharran? lol). I've even come around to like Moebius I&II despite my initial mixed feelings. I think he's definitely a HUGE S/J ship fan!

Spoiler:

I have to say that DDL was on to a loser almost from the first for me. They way he was introduced in Chimera really didn't work for me. It was too soon after Grace - I mean, come on, the next episode I was still reeling over the kiss, never mind thinking about Sam moving on!

Then turned out to be so insecure, suspicious, and not even recognising the stake out was not helping me come to grips with him in Sam's life. I'm not sure whether tptb knew how unbelievable was as a boyfriend for Sam. He certainly didn't understand her at all as the relationship progressed and had no respect for Major Carter. Him moving to the Springs and proposing was such a surprise for Sam, he must have known that she didn't have the depth of feeling for her that he did. I think was insecurity that prompted it - he felt she forgot about him when he wasn't around - I certainly tried to!

Threads & S9 spoilers - I love the way you guys have analysed the looks and stuff. I wholeheartedly agree! Those expressions in the breifing room between

Spoiler:

Sam / Jacob / Jack! The whole flowers thing! Every time I think about it I smile at the awkwardness of it all Jack's "go buy flowers" was so disingenuous. He was trying so hard not to show how upset he was that Sam was marrying

Spoiler:

I hadn't noticed the rock on Sam's had at the burnt-b-q I've lost count how many times I watched that scene and am quite embarassed at having not noticed it before! I've been too busy watching their faces I guess. I love the way Kerry reacts to Sam - she knows right then when she walks out of the house that there is sooooo much UST between Sam & Jack. I have to admit to liking Kerry as much as I didn't like . But I really feel that tptb missed the opportunity presented to them by Kerry. I don't get why they have Kerry tell Jack to resign - and then promote him to Homeworld Security.

I keeping Jack in the military for any possible appearances next season was the reasoning behind it, but to my simple mind it doesn't really work. If any situation arises where they really need Jack to be military again, they can just order him out of retirement - there's no non-frat regs for already married couples!!!

I'm starting to ramble .... wait, make that... I've been rambling on here for ages and I hope I haven't bored you all silly especially after all the well thought out and well written posts of the last few days.

Sam & Jack forever! Or at least as long as my DVD collection lasts

[kiwigater]

Nope Token, you didn't
I've been reading everyones posts and I've been really impressed with the tone of the discussion. *hugs Shipper Family* I think everyone has been balanced and fair and stated their opinions clearly and nicely.

For myself, I'm not entirely sure how I stand on this issue. The last time we discussed this I changed my mind half way through. The problem for me is that I enjoy the peripherally on-topic things (penguins, road trips etc), but I keep much less of an eye on the things going on in here because of the really off-topic stuff (greetings, farewell, what happened at school etc). I understand that in real time those things are fine, but reading through the thread at the end of the day it just doesn't add much for me.

I love seeing all the new family members delurking, but again part of the reason I've been absent for the last few months (the newbies are currently wondering who the heck I am, cos they haven't seen me! ) is that I've already talked about some of these things ad nasuem 6 months ago, and while I fully understand and support them discussing it again, I just don't have much to add

*musing* dangit! There was one more point I wanted to make, and now it's flown clear out of my head... Ah well, can't have been too important.

[hobbitsrul]

I personally don't mind the off topic-ness that this thread wanders into sometimes. I enjoy reading and writting about Sam and Jack...that's why I am here. But I also enjoy reading and writting about other things that are happening. We are a family (hence the name of the thread) and families don't just talk about one thing all the time. They talk about various different things. So I think everyone should get over the whole off topic thing and just get use to it. I will admit that sometimes there is an excess of off topic stuff but almost everytime I come on here there is atleast something about Sam and Jack being said.
If you don't like the off topic posts, don't read them, skip over them and get on with your life. It is not that big of a deal. Sometimes the off topic posts are funny or interesting...they add dimension to the thread.

That's just how I feel about it? What do you think? Oh wait I already know! Anyway.....I wish you all some Happy Shipping...especially after Threads!!
hobbitsrul

[Token]

At the same time, if there's very little relevant to Sam/Jack ship being discussed, why is the conversation happening in a Sam/Jack thread in a discussion area of the forum? Isn't that exactly the purpose of a chatter thread in OT? This thread is in the Stargate Genera Discussion after all. That tends to presume we'll be discussing soemthing related to stargate. Should the thread then be moved to OT because we don't expect to have much Stargate related discussion in the future?

Threads can decrease in activity without the world ending. This doesn't have to be a high volume thread if there's nothing to discuss. Talking just to keep talking is silly in a discussion area of the forum. People can find the thread on page two. Nothing says it has to stay on the first page.

Not that I even begin to see where there's nothing to discuss. There are eight seasons of episodes that contain Sam and Jack. Surely we can find things to discuss about Sam and Jack, If we can't, maybe the thread deserves to be less active and the conversations about other things can go to other more appropriate places.

I hope we are just having a misunderstanding of "terms". When I speak of EFFORT, I mean creating an environment of discussion such as generating questions or thoughts that provoke discussion. Fluff, as I understand it, means S/J related because it was created out of S/J discussion like Shipper Town or penquins. Chat, as I understand it, is conversation like weather. Am I wrong? Correct me if I'm wrong again, but aren't we discussing how to have a balance between thought-provoking discussion and fluff only? I think it is helpful to discussion to be on the same page. Although, I don't seem to be helping much.

[Oma-1]

Edited to add: Basically, if the thread's just here to be on the front page, have a huge volume of posts, and up people's post counts, count me out. I'm here because I want to discuss Sam and Jack. Frequently there are a lot of posts in this thread without much Sam/Jack content and clearly some people intend to up the fluff content in the off season to keep up the volume of posts. Personally, I'd much rather read a thread that slips down to page two or three sometimes with topical posts than one that's always on the top page that's filled with OT fluff.

My take on what Token and Kri are saying is that we will still be here discussing S/J ship - not just fluff. Just that the S/J stuff we talk about will be re-visiting the ship of the past 8 seasons. IMHO the shippers here want to discuss the ship, and the friendly stuff that is OT adds to the family feeling - within reasonable limits.

I understand the frustration of reading pages and pages of OT posts - I have to wade through them at times, and at times I've been guilty of adding to them. Talking as somebody relatively new here (just passed my first month anniversary - wooohoooo ) it takes a while to settle into the family, get to know one another and the general rules of the thread. I think a little forbearance is required from the older members of the family towards newbies, and a gentle reminder to all shippers about keeping it On Topic is all that is needed.

The amount of ot chatty stuff has really dropped off the last week or so but has been taken over by worries over dings (which I suppose were a reaction by shippers to all the ot stuff) and got us into a bit of an ot cycle. Hopefully, we will heed Madeline's advice and let it all cool off for a bit while we talk about the really important stuff

I LOVE BA'AL

oops, that's not it

shipper cookies
rampaging penguins
Sam & Jack forever!

[Catysg1]

I don't think there is any way to truly know what the majority or the minority of the viewers are. But I would guess that the majority doesn't care one way or the other. But, the S/J ship was definately introduced into the series and I think that as the group that embraced what was written into SG, we should be able to see it brought to fruition. There is no guarantee that writers will continue a story line throughout a program, and it seems unfair for any group to think they have the right to direct how the show will go. But to belive that a story line that has survived for 8 years should be delt with in a mature manner and be resolved in a positive manner doesn't seem unreasonable, not to me anyway. Sam and Jack ship is not the only reason I watch Stargate. But they, TPTB, have made it a part of Stargate, a part that I have looked forward to for a long time (a long long time). Along with a lot of other factors. I never wanted Sam/Jack ship to replace the team aspect of the show, nor the relationships between Jack and the other characters. I've enjoyed Jack's interaction with each team member and found each relationship special. Jack is my favorite character, but I've also enjoyed the relationships between the other team members as well. I don't understand why anyone thinks one has to be sacraficed for the other. If some of the episodes haven't been as good as others, it wasn't because of the ship, it was because the episodes just wasn't as good, and that is still a matter of opinion. I was happy, I admit, that Sam and Jack seem to apparently still be an item as far as I've watched (no spoilers there I don't think). But when someone asks why alienate a portion of the viewing audience, I can't help but wonder if they don't realize that if they hadn't alienated that portion, that would have anlienated a different portion. I guess what I'm saying is, I don't think they are writing episodes based on what group has the largest fan base, but on what they want to write (or produce). I happen to fall into the group that liked the direction they took Sam and Jack (meaning slipping their ship into the story lines). But I don't think the majority of the viewers even consider the ship, they just accept it as one aspect of SG, or ignore it, whatever suits.

A long ramble and I hope I made some sense out of what I was feeling when I too read that post.

I think romance is a very important part of a long running sci-fi show ..They all do it ..Most of the time UST for a long time and when the series ends ..they get together ..apart from a few exceptions ..but it works that way because the TPTB introduced the ship and they have to finish it ..otherwise a lot of fans will never forgive tptb for introducing a ship which leads nowhere and the same fans will not get the DVD's at the end .....A good example is Farscape

Most of the time when I start watching a sci-fi show ..I only watch it for the sci-fi and in there somewhere and sometimes ...I'll find ship sublte or not and will love it ....Example Dark Angel ..I think that show is excellent ..I watched it for the mythology first ( brilliant story and so original) ...shame they had to stop at season 2 because it had great potential . The ship was great ..saying that ..they may have got stuck with it after season 2 ...but the 44 episodes I have seen are awesome .

Stargate was the same as the x-files for me ...and the ship hit me right in the eyes from the pilote in both shows ..Both shows are awesome but I think they went on for too long ..and when it's too long ,the actors get bored , the fans get bored , the writers get bored ...they forget their imagination and everything starts to crumble ...this is what happened to X-files ( which I think is a fab show nevertheless) and that's what is happening to Stargate .

Now I'm watching as CSI las vegas and Cold case as well...fantastic shows too ...but I don't watch them for ship ....the investigations in CSI are sensational ..and in Cold case ...well I love the flasbacks...I love the music and the slow motion ..in fact the editing is superb ..and Lily is a great character ...a strong woman with a genuine sensitivity .

I hope Stargate season 9 has a lot of surprises in stock ...because it seems to me that they are following the x-files ...which is a real shame .When the lead actor who is the soul of the show decides to leave , the series should stop and stay in all its glory ...the other way is I think not a very good idea ...but we'll see what comes up with season 9 ....I have a feeling it may be very poor


Caty

[Melyanna]

Thought I'd answer some people's question of why I stopped posting here. At the risk of needing protective gear...

This is exactly why people have been leaving the thread, and exactly why I left.

The mods have never claimed to have a problem with the occasional off-topic post. That's okay — everyone has a tendency to digress. The problem is when it becomes page after page of posts about people's pets. I'm sure you all have very nice pets, but if I want to read about Sam and Jack, I don't want to have to sift through posts about fish getting eaten by neighbors' cats, traumatic though it may be.

Lately, there's been some great discussion of Threads, but that's only been lately. And I have no reason to believe that this current spell of discussion is anything more than a spell. The OT chatter is fun, but it's just that — off-topic, and therefore shouldn't go on for pages and pages and pages. There's a whole forum here devoted to off-topic posts.

By the way, the arguments that post counts will go down if you cut down on the OT or that this thread needs to stay on page one are total crap. Amazingly, when I want to find a thread, I can go searching for it. Threads get bumped after months of inactivity. I have my doubts that this thread will ever be permanently inactive. As for the extra features you get with more posts, that's supposed to reward people for meaningful posts. That's why posts don't count in Off-Topic. At this point, a lot of people are being rewarded for meaningless fluff. The Sheppard/Teyla ship thread recently got reprimanded for that.

I've heard the argument many times that there's not enough to talk about to keep this thread on topic more than it is. Might I direct you to the Sheppard/Weir thread? We've had one season to discuss there, and almost all of the thread is related to Sheppard/Weir, the characters individually, and the show at large. We have the occasional peripheral discussion, but for the most part, things stay related to Atlantis.

If you're really concerned about this thread dying, then come up with something S/J-related to talk about. You've got eight seasons of episodes here. Have an episode of the week. Do caption games. Have drabble contests. Recommend fics. You've got plenty of creative people in here who can come up with ways to keep the thread active and on topic. In the meantime, take the off-topic posts where they belong, which is not in this thread.

[hobbitsrul]

Hey! How about we change the topic to...Sam and Jack!! lol

What was everyone's favorite part in Threads??

Mine was when Sam was sitting looking at her Dad and Jack came in and put his arm around her. My fav quote from the episode is below in my sig!

hobbitsrul