The Sam & Jack Shippers' Archive

[Catysg1]

And don't forget

Je te veux pour l'eternite!

Welcome to the shipper family Niniel



*sigh* pour l'eternite...oh Oui alors ..pas moins que ca!!!!!

Bisous, bisous ..partout , partout


Caty

[CoffeeGirl]

Glad you like the videos. Since Blogigo (where my weblog is) seems to be down at the moment, I'm putting the banner to our site in my sig... hope this works...

Edit: Hm. I can see the banner when Norton Antivirus is switched off, but it's gone when Norton is running. Dang. Will have to call computer-science-studying brother and ask him to fix it.

[Catysg1]

Thank you for my birthday wishes so far ...and I'll thank everybody at the end of the day Une pierre de coup not sure in English ..will try to find the right expression ...be back


Caty

[Madeleine]

Regarding Sam and Jack; who do you think would feel worse guilt for being a player in the other's death? In S4's Entity, Jack had to shoot the Entity, which was residing in Sam's body. He basically killed her (she was brain dead, even though they didn't know Sam's 'soul' was residing in the computer's main frame). In S6's Frozen, Sam talked Jack into taking a Tok'ra symbiote, even though she knew he was very against being a host. And we know how that scenario turned out. If Sam hadn't been brought back, what would have happened to Jack? If Jack hadn't been brought back (numerous times) and escaped, how would Sam have coped with talking Jack into something that he was against and that resulted in his horrible death? Ideas/opinions? *notice how the show so easily swept Jack's Abyss experience under the rug? ... someone should really sweep that rug out someday.*

Sally

Good question.

I don't think guilt would be an issue for either of them. Grief yes, hugely so perhaps, but I think Jack's got a better way of dealing with things than he used to when he went all guilt-trip, and guilt's not rational enough for Sam; but grief is in both their natures, and especially Sam's.

Jack's had the same issue to deal with many times. He effectively killed Kawalsky, who - like Sam - was 'dead anyway'. He was prepared to kill Daniel to save the Enkarans. If Jack felt guilty after those events (or even after Entity) he certainly managed to rationalise it enough that he could keep going.

As for Sam, she was one of a number of people who decided what Jack's best chance was, and all she did was present the option to him. If not for Jacob then I'd say yes she'd certainly feel terribly guilty that Kaanan turned out to be a bit of a git, but Sam has such a close relationship with both Selmak and Jacob that she'd be able to see Jack's misfortune as just that - misfortune - rather than as her (or any of Jack's friends') fault.

As to who'd have suffered the most though, if the other had died, I'd have to say Sam. After all, Jack saw everything Sam went through, and unpleasant as it was it was all pretty quick and seemingly painless and hence a good deal better than, say, what had happened to Kawalsky or Skaara (okay Skaara was saved later, but at the time it that didn't seem likely). Jack would be deeply upset if Sam died, but if she died on the front line doing her job as in Entity I think he'd cope.

Sam, I think, would feel the same if Jack died in combat or suchlike, if he died in the way most active soldiers half expect to die. She'd grieve in the same sort of way as she did for Janet. But if she were to find out Jack had died alone (she didn't know DJ was there) she'd be a good deal more upset for him. If she ever did find out that Jack died after repeated tortures she'd be devastated. I don't think it could drive her to guilt (in contrast to Jack she doesn't seem to blame herself unnecessarily; she's more philosophical about these things) but it would almost certainly give her cause to hate the Tok'ra enough to drive a wedge between her and Dad, or if Jacob were affected enough by her grief it could have precipitated Selmak's downgrading in the tok'ra heirachy.

I think Sam's reaction to Jack going missing in PL is a good indicator. There she felt partly responsible, but it drove her to *action* rather than guilt, and her composure only started to crumble when she had to face the possibility that no action of which she was capable would be successful. If Jack had stayed *missing* in Abyss it might have been much the same, but if he had actually died I think she'd paradoxically have an easier time, cos it would just make her totally potty if she knew Jack was out there somewhere and didn't know where to find him or even if he was still alive; and she wouldn't have felt compelled to spend all her waking hours trying one fruitless endeavour after another and grinding her own morale into powder.

[aske]

spoilers for s4 and s6 (entity and frozen/abyss discussed)

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Here's a weird thought that popped into my head (and I don't know what I was thinking that brought me there), but...

Regarding Sam and Jack; who do you think would feel worse guilt for being a player in the other's death? In S4's Entity, Jack had to shoot the Entity,

Jack would have felt guilt no matter who it would have been. Jack was duty bound to shoot the Entity, no matter what the consequences. He hesistated before making that second shot, he knew the price he'd pay. I don't doubt for a second he agonized over his decision in private. But I also think he would have dealt with his grief/guilt in a much better way than he did after his son had died.

......In S6's Frozen, Sam talked Jack into taking a Tok'ra symbiote, even though she knew he was very against being a host.

Now this to me has always come across as an emotional decision on Sam's part. And really, on Jack's part too. I don't see him saying yes to anyone else but Sam. A true testament to their feelings for each other.

What's the saying? "If you love someone enough you can let them go...." Not exact but close. I think love can also be said like this, "If you love someone enough you won't be afraid to ask them to stay."

.....Ideas/opinions? *notice how the show so easily swept Jack's Abyss experience under the rug? ... someone should really sweep that rug out someday.*

Definitely. My biggest problem with the show is the writer's lack of dealing with the emotional aspects that each of these characters is bound by human nature to deal with. They say that's what fanfic is for, but I would love to see the writers deal, on a larger scale, with the emotional aftermath/conflict/outcome of a big loss. We've all seen little things and of course the 'Heroes' hug.... Who knows, maybe they're afraid it would scare to many fans away....

[Catysg1]

Good question.

I don't think guilt would be an issue for either of them. Grief yes, hugely so perhaps, but I think Jack's got a better way of dealing with things than he used to when he went all guilt-trip, and guilt's not rational enough for Sam; but grief is in both their natures, and especially Sam's.

Jack's had the same issue to deal with many times. He effectively killed Kawalsky, who - like Sam - was 'dead anyway'. He was prepared to kill Daniel to save the Enkarans. If Jack felt guilty after those events (or even after Entity) he certainly managed to rationalise it enough that he could keep going.

As for Sam, she was one of a number of people who decided what Jack's best chance was, and all she did was present the option to him. If not for Jacob then I'd say yes she'd certainly feel terribly guilty that Kaanan turned out to be a bit of a git, but Sam has such a close relationship with both Selmak and Jacob that she'd be able to see Jack's misfortune as just that - misfortune - rather than as her (or any of Jack's friends') fault.

As to who'd have suffered the most though, if the other had died, I'd have to say Sam. After all, Jack saw everything Sam went through, and unpleasant as it was it was all pretty quick and seemingly painless and hence a good deal better than, say, what had happened to Kawalsky or Skaara (okay Skaara was saved later, but at the time it that didn't seem likely). Jack would be deeply upset if Sam died, but if she died on the front line doing her job as in Entity I think he'd cope.

Sam, I think, would feel the same if Jack died in combat or suchlike, if he died in the way most active soldiers half expect to die. She'd grieve in the same sort of way as she did for Janet. But if she were to find out Jack had died alone (she didn't know DJ was there) she'd be a good deal more upset for him. If she ever did find out that Jack died after repeated tortures she'd be devastated. I don't think it could drive her to guilt (in contrast to Jack she doesn't seem to blame herself unnecessarily; she's more philosophical about these things) but it would almost certainly give her cause to hate the Tok'ra enough to drive a wedge between her and Dad, or if Jacob were affected enough by her grief it could have precipitated Selmak's downgrading in the tok'ra heirachy.

I think Sam's reaction to Jack going missing in PL is a good indicator. There she felt partly responsible, but it drove her to *action* rather than guilt, and her composure only started to crumble when she had to face the possibility that no action of which she was capable would be successful. If Jack had stayed *missing* in Abyss it might have been much the same, but if he had actually died I think she'd paradoxically have an easier time, cos it would just make her totally potty if she knew Jack was out there somewhere and didn't know where to find him or even if he was still alive; and she wouldn't have felt compelled to spend all her waking hours trying one fruitless endeavour after another and grinding her own morale into powder.

That is very good Madeleine *sigh* MWHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA...wiping tears of my eyes . Sam and Jack *sigh* they are both so sensitve when one is missing in action ..but they just want to keep it inside so much or either cry or grieve in the locker room

I wonder if TPTB is gonna give us another similar episode in season 8 part 2 ???I doubt it ..because that didn't help in them getting together ..so I suppose we need to think about something else ..which will help a little BIT MORE.

Anyway Madeleine ..I enjoyed your post..I wish I could write like that now ...Oh well ..I 'll carry on expressing myself through visual


Caty

[Anakin]

Thank you for my birthday wishes so far ...and I'll thank everybody at the end of the day Une pierre de coup not sure in English ..will try to find the right expression ...be back


Caty

Happy Birthday, Caty!!... I don't have anything to offer you right now, except my best wishes and a warm embrace from "where you - now - know"!

[Niniel]

Welcome to the shipper family Niniel

Thanks a lot!
I will be as happy as a pig in muck amongst so many kindred spirits!



(In case this sentence above makes no sense, please have patience with me
-> English isn't my first language )

[Critter]

((((((((Tame))))))))

*looks at Tame's post count*

Sheesh!! Maybe we oughta call ya the Shipper Town blabbermouth!!

mad gater where are your manners....she's the Town Crier.

[wynter]

Thanks a lot!
I will be as happy as a pig in muck amongst so many kindred spirits!



(In case this sentence above makes no sense, please have patience with me
-> English isn't my first language )

WELCOME TO OUR SHIPPER FAMILY,

THIS IS THE PLACE TO BE, POST LOTS AND WE ALWAYS HAVE SOME-THING TO DISCUSS HERE,SO FEEL FREE TO EXPRESS ANY HIGHS AND LOWS.

WYNTERXX

[wynter]

HAPPY BIRTHDAY CATY!!!

I DID SAY IT LAST NIGHT BUT AS IT'S YOUR BIRTHDAY TODAY I THOUGHT I WOULD SAY IT AGAIN,HAVE A LOVELY DAYXXXXXX

WYNTERXX

[Critter]

Thanks a lot!
I will be as happy as a pig in muck amongst so many kindred spirits!



(In case this sentence above makes no sense, please have patience with me
-> English isn't my first language )

Your English is just fine Niniel....and welcome to the wonderful Gate World Shipper Family. We are happy to have you join in our shippiness. Remember that a lot of times we don't even make sense so you're going to fit right in!

[Critter]

HAPPY BIRTHDAY CATY!

I don't have any fancy thingamabobs...just an old fashioned wish to a great shipper for a wonderful birthday!

[astronomicalchick]

Happy Birthday Ship Diva!!! love Astroxxx

[Guest]

Thanks a lot!
I will be as happy as a pig in muck amongst so many kindred spirits!



(In case this sentence above makes no sense, please have patience with me
-> English isn't my first language )

Niniel!!

Help yourself to cookies, drinks and straight jackets!

Also welcome to any other delurkers that I have missed!