Mitchell Open Forum

[Lightsabre]

Nah, I originally wrote that in there, but changed my mind about posting it, because it is such a big issue. I suppose it's fine talking about Cameron's abilities as a leader, because that is a huge bone of contention. However, I don't want this to turn into a mudslinging match between (predominantly) the Sam and Cam camps. That's all. As long as it is discussion about Cameron and it's done in a mature and adult way, I have no problem with it.

Ah ok then
Well, hopefully, it'll stay on the up and up. I mean, there must be more we can talk about than just leadership, right?

[ParadoxRealities]

I responded by saying part of being a good leader is to make authoritive statements.
Mitchell does act like a leader. In the Scourge, Ethon, Collateral DAmage, Off the Grid.

I don't see it needs to change, I just think we need to see it more.

ah, i see. i was responding to your post about BB not getting authoritative lines, and i merely meant that its not the lines that make the leader, its the attitude, etc. though your right, lack of lines can break the leader. i just didn't include this because i saw nothing to break. you did, and that's where the discrepancy came from.

Sorry, but you seem to be saying you will find it harder to respect me if I disagree with you? I'm sure I've got it wrong, but could you expand on this, please?

do'h! again with the bad wording. i meant that i may have trouble keeping my annoyance under control if i went through all that trouble to do something that wouldn't get either of us anywhere. I will always respect your opinion, i just don't want to get myself into something that i know will get me annoyed at you. not because you have a different opinion, but because there's nothing of substance to debate over. was that clearer? i'm sorry, that did sound bad, thanks for understanding.

Tracy Jane: yeah, i shoulda seen this coming (after all, its my fault this happened at all). i shoulda shut up and run back to samanda/anti-9 as soon as we started talking about mitchell v. jack. there's other stuff besides leadership we can talk about, right?

[FoolishPleasure]

I don't really think "who" is in command of SG1 has anything to do with Mitchell, but my thoughts on it:

Mitchell was given command of SG1 when Sam had left it and was not extected to return. Mitchell worked on collecting the "band" because it worked so well in the past, but Mitchell IS in command. He has more seniority as a Lt. Colonel, but Sam has more experience off-world. So, does Mitchell stand down and let Sam take command? Or does SGC take command away from Mitchell after telling him "pick your team"?

Actually this really isn't a problem for the pro and anti-Mitchell camps, it falls more on the shoulders of the writers for creating the problem in the first place. I don't hold it over Mitchell as a problem area. I see Mitchell in command but having the realization that Sam knows more than he does in some areas, which is why we don't see him dispensing orders to her on a regular basis.

[Skydiver]

well, i do know that if this becomes 'sg-1 leadership' redux, then this thread will die and get merged into an existing one.

Yes, mitch's command abilities are part of his character, but we do already have a thriving thread about that topic already.

so how about, even if mitch in command is part of your discussions/points, we try to keep this thread on Mitch in general, his strengths and weaknesses

if you want to debate the command issue, head over to the command thread

[ShardsofGlass]

I want to know why those who don't like Mitchell and call him immature, say he has the resposibility of a 10 year old, that he has no idea what he's doing, etc. never talk about the eps that do not portray him that way. I would dispute any of the descriptions I quoted, but he was only shown to be that way in one ep. ONE!!! It's Off the Grid. And I can totally understand the criticism of Mitchell based on this ep.

But take a look at Ethon, The Scourge, Camelot, to name a few, and tell me how he is anything but an extremely capable officer and a good leader? Seriously, where did he act like a ten year old in Ethon? How was he incompetent in The Scourge? What did he do wrong in TFH, TPTB, TTTB, RE, and others? Are these negative opinions really based on one badly written episode and a couple of jokes that fell flat? Because that's what it looks like to me.

[Skydiver]

which episode is it where he's touching things??? gets the 'new guy' from daniel?

and yes, off the grid is a huge example of immature mitch. his impetuous behavior nearly got his team killed

him leaving classified top secret stuff in his unguarded friend's hospital room

him running off after teal'c, ignoring that he exposed himself and endangered himself, beacuse he was ticked off and in a bad mood

[ShardsofGlass]

Ah, thanks, Skydiver, now I understand. I think this is a case of those who are open to Mitchell or like him, interpret events one way. Those who don't, like yourself, interpret them in the worst possible light, or even in a light that TPTB never even thought of. Take your examples,

In Prototype where he touched the panel -- definitely something he shouldn't have done but it was hardly the life and death scenario you portrayed. Notice how careful he's been since then.

Leaving classified stuff in a hospital room -- only certain fans see this as a problem. Clearly TPTB didn't or they wouldn't have gone to such great pains to tell us how the hospital deals with offworld technology all the time or how Mitchell's friend needed a certain level of clearance just to be in the hospital. This criticism is definitely a nitpick and not even a valid one, imo. Hardly anything that would signify anything at all about Mitchell. I mean, next you'll be saying that he doesn't close his locker the right way.

Him running off the help TEal'c -- well, first of all, another officer told him to go "Go, go, go," at which point he ran to position to take out the gun. AFter the gun was taken out, he ran toward the ship because it was about to take off! Was Mitchell pissed off about his friend? Of course. Was he using that to energize himself on the battlefield? Probably. But so what? Channeling emotional energy into something like this on the battlefield is something soldiers do all teh time. The whole point of the mission was to rescue Teal'c. If Mitchell had waited rather than moving forward when he saw his opportunity, Teal'c might've been gone for good. Then everyone would be saying he was too slow and too cautious! Also, he didn't help rescue Teal'c *because* he was in a bad mood. He did it because Teal'c was on his team, because that was his job, as he said in the ep.

[Tiret]

I had trouble getting interested in Mitchell's character for the much of the season. I couldn't figure out where his character was coming from, emotionally/psychologically. I've seen glimpses now of where I think they're going with him, but it seems to be taking them a while to get it out, what with all the other things going on.

His humor strikes me as more of a diversion for himself and for others to draw attention away from his few deep insecurities. He receives top marks at everything because he puts a lot of pressure on himself, (and no doubt has talent backing it up) but in being so strict with himself he would be troubled by a few (any at all) past failures. I'm sure that he doesn't want to people to look too closely at his successes lest they resent him for it, seeing as he's a nice guy, but nor can he let them see the real things that haunt him. (And he dearly wants advancement and challenge...) So he dabbles in an in-between zone, maybe leaning on his entertaining family roots to appear more friendly and down to earth, while still showing enough of his leadership skills to be taken into proper account. O'Neill was more of a brassy fellow and didn't care so much what people thought of him, so he appeared more the 'spout off' type...a different kind of leader. I don't know, though...I don't have much I'm going off of, and I have a tendency to try to fill in the blanks (from my training as an actress) just because. So these would be only my first impressions (initial guesses?) after his introductory season, a season which was really rather sparse in 'private moments' to judge the guy by.

It's a bit of an odd situation though, the leadership thing. Cameron's new to the program, yet replacing a leader on a seasoned team. It's like putting the Jack from season one (qualified but inexperienced in the area) into the SG1 of season eight. I'm not so much bothered by the fact that Cameron doesn't boss the others around a lot. Sam, Daniel and Teal'c are all pretty much on a level with experience and can lead each other, work in sub-divisions, and even work independently with efficiency. Yet the group could really do with a fourth person/personality, as far as I'm concerned. That was what I felt most lacking in season eight. I dearly love the other three, but I wanted another, whether or not it was Jack or somebody else. Also, I happen to enjoy Carter more when she's occupied with the scienctific aspects of things, and so for me Cameron's mostly a leader to ‘off-set,’ to provide another soldier to allow for the 'science in Sam.' It evens things out a bit, to have somebody else deal with the baggage of 'being the official head' so Sam doesn't have to double up. Let's face it, SG1 doesn't need much 'helping along' really. So as long as Cameron's competent enough and willing to learn what bits he has to fill in, I don't see why he can't patch in as the other soldier, and as a character hang in there for the long haul. You’re not going to find someone to take the place of O’Neill in the exact context he left, because there’s not such a candidate available, unless you rob from another SG team…because every team really starts out from scratch (from plain military and specialty folk) for the simple fact that most of the planet’s population has never been off world. So all that there is to qualify people for the job is their skill-sets, and not direct field experience of this type. So now you have this issue with the fill-in leader having had less experience than the rest of the team. But despite the bit of awkwardness I think it's working okay. They get along fine.

I can see a bit of the strain right now of the writers trying to use Mitchell like O'Neill, to try to get those kinds of lines in there, and yet still try to give the boy a spirit of his own. It must be tricky after having written Jack for so long not to let some of his 'character' slip into the dialogue fairly frequently. Personally I think it's a more realistic approach to have the other three who spent so much time with Jack randomly fall into some of his mannerisms...despite the fact that they are all very different people. It makes sense because that sort of thing happens in real life: you learn/absorb the traits of the people that you spend the most time around, and often there's a subconscious impulse to 'fill in' for them when they're not there. I've detected a little bit of this happening so far, but they could maybe use it some more. (Not saying that Sam, Teal'c and Danny need to turn into Jack clones, or anything.) But that would be a better way to slip the 'attitude' in there, I think, than pinning it all on Mitchell.

In closing, I’m still waiting for them to quantify Mitchell’s character a bit more, though he is growing on me. He has his moments…and then he has a few where I find myself raising my eyebrow Teal’c-style. But I’m not in a real hurry to see him go. So anyhow, that’s where I’m coming from currently.

[TameFarrar]

I really like the character of Mitchell and I love the *idea* of Mitchell. What I am disenchanted with is what the writers have done with Mitchell.

For whomever said that they hold the Actor accountable for the character's lines and actions...I have to respectfully disagree. Mainly because the actors while allowed to ad-lib some I am sure must stick to the script for the most part AND follow the direction of the Director OR they could very well find themselves out of a job....

That being said I find the latter half of S9 to be a bit more stable for Mitchell and since I haven't taken the time to check out who wrote or directed things I am going to take ya'alls word for it and believe the men you have mentioned are part of the blame

But I hold TPTB as a whole accountable for the *wishy-washy* nature of the character.
One week we have *Hero-Cam* the next week we have *Goofy-Cam* and the next week we have *Sidekick-Cam* all of which could be part of Cam but the way he is written is as if the last week never happened..***boggles***

I also think RCC is a really good writer... but as a show-runner he leaves much to be desired. Ultimately as the Show runner the buck does stop at his desk for what is sent on to the Network for airing. I don't think he has a clear picture of where things should be going and it is showing.

Mitchell has alot of potential to be a fantastic character mainly because they have a fantastic actor to portray him. But as all actors can attest.. if you do not have the right material... well you don't always come off in the best light to any fan.

I think we all can look back at shows and movies that some of our favorite actors have done and just groan and wonder why they ever even did that. We KNOW they can act so that is not in question. It all boils down to what they are handed to do each day and how they are directed to do it.

[Shipperahoy]

My problem with the Mitchell character is that I haven't had a strong reaction to him one way or another. Even with Vala, who I really couldn't stand up until Crusade, I at least cared enough about the character to complain about why I didn't like her.

Mitchell is just kind of there. He hasn't really made any impression. He made more so of one in the latter part of the season but I'm still not quite feeling him. He's lovely to look at but, as others have mentioned, they need to do something more with him other than being Quippy McQuipster. For me, he became a part of the team way too fast. He shows up and all the sudden they are the best of friends. There was no real getting to know each other period or adjustment it was just POOF it's SG-1. Even if they knew him before there would still be some adjustment period to having him on the team I would think. Especially since he's apparently leading it..or one of the people leading it. But that's a whole 'nother topic of discussion.

[scarimor]

He receives top marks at everything because he puts a lot of pressure on himself, (and no doubt has talent backing it up) but in being so strict with himself he would be troubled by a few (any at all) past failures. I'm sure that he doesn't want to people to look too closely at his successes lest they resent him for it, seeing as he's a nice guy, but nor can he let them see the real things that haunt him. (And he dearly wants advancement and challenge...)

Insightful - and as I was reading this I couldn't help thinking - this is just like Sam.

[Dream-a-Little]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiret
He receives top marks at everything because he puts a lot of pressure on himself, (and no doubt has talent backing it up) but in being so strict with himself he would be troubled by a few (any at all) past failures. I'm sure that he doesn't want to people to look too closely at his successes lest they resent him for it, seeing as he's a nice guy, but nor can he let them see the real things that haunt him. (And he dearly wants advancement and challenge...)

Now that, IMO, gets to the heart of the character better than any description I have seen before; for my money that most definitely is Mitchell.

[Dream-a-Little]

Insightful - and as I was reading this I couldn't help thinking - this is just like Sam.

So, perhaps that’s the foundation of the Mitchell/Sam friendship past and present. Common ground so to speak?

[Skydiver]

I really like the character of Mitchell and I love the *idea* of Mitchell. What I am disenchanted with is what the writers have done with Mitchell.

shockingly enough, i have no issues with mitch as a character...i do with how he's written and i do with the leadership issue (but that part of the topic is for another thread)

But I hold TPTB as a whole accountable for the *wishy-washy* nature of the character.
One week we have *Hero-Cam* the next week we have *Goofy-Cam* and the next week we have *Sidekick-Cam* all of which could be part of Cam but the way he is written is as if the last week never happened..***boggles***

I also think RCC is a really good writer... but as a show-runner he leaves much to be desired. Ultimately as the Show runner the buck does stop at his desk for what is sent on to the Network for airing. I don't think he has a clear picture of where things should be going and it is showing.

Again, i agree. and i do think that a lot of the 'blame' lands on coop's desk. It's his job as show runner to basically beta the scripts. to poke holes in the plots, to do the math and realize that

Spoiler:

if arthur's mantle is set 6 months from whatever that stupid jewels in the cave episode was, then there's no way vala can be ready to pop the next week since, last i knew, it still took buns in the oven 9 months to 'cook'.

and other such examples of inconsistencies and 'errors' that have crept into the show in the past few years.

when he writes, coop can do a good job. But he seems to either lack teh ability to beta stuff or lacks the time

either way, cam has definitely suffered from it as he's written so unevenly as to be laughable in many ways. We go from Cambo and his big gun to colonel goofball who yuks it up about his grandma.

at times i wonder if we won't eventually find out that Cam has an evil twin that keeps impersonating him...or maybe there's a quantum mirror in the closet and we keep getting the cam from another universe

If cam was written and directed consistently, he'd be a lot 'better' character

[maxbo]

I like Mitchell and that surprises me because I didn't think I would. Before watching Season 9, I wondered why Sam wasn't heading SG-1, however, after watching Season 9, it didn't matter because I liked the way Mitchell was brought into the team. I've see quite a bit of criticism about his fluid leadership style, however, given his initial reluctance to head SG-1 and the fact that Sam, Daniel and Teal'c are leaders in their own right, I don't see how he could lead this experienced team any other way.