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    Okay, I'm going to preface this by saying I'm a BB fan (loved Farscape, and *gasp* thought it was a better show than Stargate, although I like both). I also like Mitchell. Just saying this hoping I don't come off as a bitter BB/Mitchell hater. (And, this may be long so feel free to skim or just skip by blathering )

    Okay, saying that, I did find the credits to be a bit more Mitchell heavy than I had expected. I would have thought as far as credits go, the beginning sequences would have a variety of images of everyone, and then, Mitchell first in the individual shots since he's the lead actor. My assumption that it would be like that are for 2 reasons. First, PDL's interview saying that one change would be that it wasn't "The Ben Browder Show" (I'm guessing that was meant as opposed to being "The Richard Dean Anderson Show" meaning that while there has to be a lead actor, it should be thought mostly as an ensemble show, so I expected any aspect of the credits not dealing with the actors in credit order with their names would show all the actors. And, I hope I didn't just confuse everyone with that long winded aside). The second reason I thought that there would be more group shots prior to BB's actual credit is because I thought there would be a change after RDA left. Stargate was a star vehicle for RDA, all commercials on the Scifi channel emphasized that it was RDA in Stargate. Heck, he stayed on the show because they thought they needed his star power. Now, I know BB has a huge scifi fanbase, but to me scifi is a niche base. I think overall, RDA's starpower is bigger. He's known to people in the mainstream as well as scifi. Macgyver is a pretty well known figure, even for people who never watched the show. Add to that the extra fame of being the star of Stargate. So, my thought was, once tptb felt that the show could go on without RDA's starpower, that the credits wouldn't seem to emphasize one actor because the dynamic was changed.

    I don't watch Atlantis, but from PDL's comment, I know Joe Flanigan is the lead actor on the show. Are the credits similar, lots of shots of him before they actually get to where they show individual shots?

    Now, while I think the credits are surprising, because like I mentioned I expected more of an ensemble feel in the credits, I don't think they're that bad. The scenes at the beginning go pretty fast. So, yes, I do think they're Mitchell heavy but the manner that they're shown doesn't seem to make the other actors seem unimportant. Ugh, I can't explain it. Second, I know that credits don't always show exactly how the actual show will go. BB is the lead, but I agree that he hasn't been written as a lead. And, I don't necessarily mean he has to drive every story or be the star of every episode. I've watched some wonderful shows that are truly ensemble. On the other hand, I don't think there needs to be the other extreme where BB is basically just tagging along. Also, I've watched shows where the actor's role diminished so that they were treated like unspecial guest stars, even though they were still the lead. And, to my complete dismay, in one show, everytime I thought a character got an upgrade in status because of their new placement in the credits, they actually got less screentime and character assassination. So, that's my way of saying that just because the credits show more clips of BB, it doesn't automatically mean that the episodes will come off as "Mitchell and those other what their faces acting with him" I'm hoping that the second half will utilize his character more, because he has been underused in my opinion, while still keeping the other characters just as important and vital. I think it can be done. There's a middle ground between Mitchell lagging behind everyone and Mitchell taking over at the expense of everyone.

    (huh. Not as long as I thought. But I did decide not to post on some other comments, because i thought that would make it too long)
    I'm a girl! A girly girly girl!

    Okay, you got me. I can't accept change. This message may look like it was typed on a computer and posted on the internet, but it is actually cave drawings delivered by smoke signals.

    Naquada Enhanced Chastity Belts -SG1 edition. On sale now! Heck, I'll give them away

    Daniel Jackson Appreciation and Discussion -because he's more than pretty

    http://forum.gateworld.net/showthread.php?t=89


    Daniel Jackson: The Beacon of Hope and The Man Who Opened the Stargate

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      "Mitchell and those other what their faces acting with him" I'm hoping that the second half will utilize his character more, because he has been underused in my opinion, while still keeping the other characters just as important and vital. I think it can be done. There's a middle ground between Mitchell lagging behind everyone and Mitchell taking over at the expense of everyone.
      Basically, I think this is what most people are wanting Dani. So far Mitchell has not driven the storylines since Avalon 1 - and as a lead, I am expecting to have him do so at some stage... this doesn't mean that any of the other characters have to be out of the story and I'm really hoping that they expand on his buddy/buddy relationships... Most shows have a lead but they need others to bounce off of and there are some good actors to play off of one another here.

      Regarding the credits... really before the STARGATE TITLE there were 3 shots of Ben and 2 of the team coming through the gate... I feel that there is probably a little more of him this season because he is the new character lead and it's to make his story known to people as they tune in to this new season... many casual viewers may not catch Avalon 1 for example and this title sequence gives a little brief preview of his story, the battle, the crash, his coming to SG1. They have had to emphasise his presence because of the newness of it all.

      However, even in RDA's time, I still felt that - in the early seasons anyway - that most characters had their time and episodes to shine... I'm expecting that this will be the case again... Daniel has had most of the 1st 5 episodes... Sam seems to be getting the 4th Horseman double... Teal'c has/is starting to get more prominent B-story. Mitchell has really only had Babylon and yes it's to be expected that he will get more... but I really hope that by the mid of this S9 2nd half that they will be cohesively working more as a team. And I can't wait to see the 'I will do anything to save you' scenes, showing their real unification as a solid unit.

      Comment


        I can't imagine how anyone would imagine that you're a Mitchell hater from that post, Dani. Mitchell/Browder is in the credits more, and I agree, I expected more equal pictureage [I just made up a word!]

        And, maybe I should reread it before making a blanket statement, but I agreed with everything you said.

        --didn't expect it to be that way, but it doesn't seem to be an egregious error and it doesn't mean that it will become the Browder Show.

        I guess the only place we part ways in your post is that I do watch Atlantis. --but not repeatedly like I would anything with Ben in it!

        Comment


          I think as lead, techinically, Ben should be involved in the A storylines. In the first half, let's see. He was involved in the A storyline in Avalon 1, TTTB, TPTB (somewhat), Beachhead, Babylon, and I can't really tell with Prototype and Fourth Horseman. That's not too bad. However, he really didn't drive any of the stories except for Avalon and Babylon, and that's just not enough for a lead, imo. Spoilers for the second half sound more promising. More of the synopses mention his name, whereas in the first half they hardly mentioned his name at all. So hopefully he'll get treated more like a lead.

          ETA: In the eps where he was part of the A storyline (except for Babylon and Avalon), it seemed like he did little more than tag along, so it's hard to count those, if you know what I mean.

          I don't want any character to be neglected, but just because Ben is new doesn't mean he should be either! I also think it'll hurt SG-1 the show to not have a strong lead and to not develop his character, so hopefully that'll happen.

          What kills me about the recent uprising about the new credits is that a lot of fans are acting like the fact that Ben has top billing is a new thing. He's had top billing all along, it's just more noticeable now with longer credits. I'm just surprised that they haven't come to accept this yet.

          Comment


            Originally posted by Kas
            ...Regarding the credits... really before the STARGATE TITLE there were 3 shots of Ben and 2 of the team coming through the gate...
            You're right, it really isn't that much more. I'm just already cringing from the inevitable negative remarks that are going to occur because "Hey, he's new, he should have LESS pictures than my beloved insert-name-here."

            Not that I don't feel their pain, but...

            It'a all about Ben here, isn't it?!?!?!

            Comment


              Originally posted by ShardsofGlass

              What kills me about the recent uprising about the new credits is that a lot of fans are acting like the fact that Ben has top billing is a new thing. He's had top billing all along, it's just more noticeable now with longer credits. I'm just surprised that they haven't come to accept this yet.
              This is very strange to me too. I've seen reports of the credits saying yes Ben has top billing, he's first followed by etc... Whaaat? Did they expect that he'd suddenly lose his credit placing because they've filmed longer credits? It astounds me that some just don't realise/can't accept what Ben has been cast to do.

              Agree with the rest of your post Shards.

              Comment


                Just wanted to add this. I wish Ben would do a SG-1 con because I think it would help fans to see him in person and hear him talk about being on SG-1 and the character of Mitchell. Ben's very charming and funny and totally down to earth, and I'd love some fans to see that he's not this egotistical "star" trying to bulldoze over their favorite characters. Eh, maybe some of them will go to the FS con.

                Comment


                  I agree, ShardsofGlass. Especially the part about not wanting any cast member neglected.

                  MORE TEAM INTERACTION!!!

                  Comment


                    Originally posted by ChillinTheMost
                    You're right, it really isn't that much more. I'm just already cringing from the inevitable negative remarks that are going to occur because "Hey, he's new, he should have LESS pictures than my beloved insert-name-here."

                    Not that I don't feel their pain, but...

                    It'a all about Ben here, isn't it?!?!?!
                    Absolutely... this is Ben's thread. He's a great man, fantastic actor, loving how he's establishing a completely new character and will really give us something excellent in the upcoming episodes!

                    Comment


                      Originally posted by ShardsofGlass
                      Just wanted to add this. I wish Ben would do a SG-1 con because I think it would help fans to see him in person and hear him talk about being on SG-1 and the character of Mitchell. Ben's very charming and funny and totally down to earth, and I'd love some fans to see that he's not this egotistical "star" trying to bulldoze over their favorite characters. Eh, maybe some of them will go to the FS con.
                      I hope so, too, but I think I read that his family doesn't live with him in Canada and he wanted to take his breaks with them and not go to cons. It would be a shame because his wit and obvious appreciation of the fans would do wonders for his acceptance, but I can understand his priorities. Maybe he can squeeze a couple local ones in...

                      Comment


                        Originally posted by ShardsofGlass
                        Just wanted to add this. I wish Ben would do a SG-1 con because I think it would help fans to see him in person and hear him talk about being on SG-1 and the character of Mitchell. Ben's very charming and funny and totally down to earth, and I'd love some fans to see that he's not this egotistical "star" trying to bulldoze over their favorite characters. Eh, maybe some of them will go to the FS con.
                        I really think he's waiting for most countries to start airing and see his character first. I mean, the UK has only just started and Canada is still to start - perhaps he'll go to Vancouver next year.

                        I was surprised that he decided to do the Farscape one personally, just as he's establishing himself on a new current show, but perhaps he sees this as one last big Farscape Con and most of all his old pals will be there. I would too, if I had the money! Also, I believe the poor guy is a little nervous...remember that interview where he said as much just before the upcoming Comic Con? Perhaps, he really wants to be secure in how his character is being received?

                        Comment


                          Originally posted by Kas

                          Regarding the credits... really before the STARGATE TITLE there were 3 shots of Ben and 2 of the team coming through the gate... I feel that there is probably a little more of him this season because he is the new character lead and it's to make his story known to people as they tune in to this new season... many casual viewers may not catch Avalon 1 for example and this title sequence gives a little brief preview of his story, the battle, the crash, his coming to SG1. They have had to emphasise his presence because of the newness of it all.
                          Hmm, I don't know if I agree that the credits actually do that. It's hard to say, since I know Mitchell's story (as much as they've shown so far) so it might be different for someone who never saw Avalon. But, I'm thinking if I saw the credits, it really wouldn't tell me much about Mitchell or his story. Like I said, they flash by so fast. I think from the credits all I would get was that BB was the lead actor and that it was scewed (squeud? scude?) more towards a star vehicle role (like I imagine 24 is, or like Macgyver was) rather than a more ensemble type like say, Lost. But, again, credits don't always reflect the reality of the show itself.
                          However, even in RDA's time, I still felt that - in the early seasons anyway - that most characters had their time and episodes to shine... I'm expecting that this will be the case again... Daniel has had most of the 1st 5 episodes... Sam seems to be getting the 4th Horseman double... Teal'c has/is starting to get more prominent B-story. Mitchell has really only had Babylon and yes it's to be expected that he will get more... but I really hope that by the mid of this S9 2nd half that they will be cohesively working more as a team. And I can't wait to see the 'I will do anything to save you' scenes, showing their real unification as a solid unit.
                          I agree that in the early seasons that everyone had their chance to shine. Although it was still promoted as a vehicle for RDA. And, I do agree that so far Mitchell has only had one episode that could count as *his* I guess my reason for saying that I think it's possible to have more Mitchell without it actually becoming all Mitchell is kind of a knee jerk reaction to the fears of some people that it will. I mean, I don't see a reassurance that they're just getting started with Mitchell and to watch the second half as being synonymous with saying that every story in the second half will be a Mitchell story. Heck, having more Mitchell could mean anything from he'll get two more seconds of screen time overall than he did or that the show will suddenly be nothing but a close up of his face every episode. (I should say that I'm expecting something in the middle of these two extremes). I guess I'm just trying to seem moderate. On the one hand, I'm thinking if I say I think there should be more Mitchell, that'll get translated by some into saying that I don't care about the other characters and want them to be wallpapered (because that's the extreme I see that people are fearing). On the other hand, I'm also thinking that if I say something like the credits do seem Mitchell heavy, it might look like I'm saying Mitchell should be left in the background.

                          In the end, what matters is the episodes. I expect there will be some episodes that could be considered Mitchell-centric in the second season, as well as character centric episodes for others, and hopefully team episodes. And, as long as it feels balanced, that's really more important than the credits.
                          I'm a girl! A girly girly girl!

                          Okay, you got me. I can't accept change. This message may look like it was typed on a computer and posted on the internet, but it is actually cave drawings delivered by smoke signals.

                          Naquada Enhanced Chastity Belts -SG1 edition. On sale now! Heck, I'll give them away

                          Daniel Jackson Appreciation and Discussion -because he's more than pretty

                          http://forum.gateworld.net/showthread.php?t=89


                          Daniel Jackson: The Beacon of Hope and The Man Who Opened the Stargate

                          Comment


                            I hear what you're saying Dani about some people seeing any comment perceived as pro or anti the character as being extreme. No doubt people assume from my sig and the fact that I appreciate Ben, loved Farscape and am definitely excited to see him here as being an absolute Ben fanatic to all exclusion, BUT I love SCIFI... I follow quite a few shows, have always followed Stargate - (except not so much the last couple of seasons... I drifted away and don't own those seasons on DVD) - The new characters/actors and the stories have brought me back and yep, I'm wanting to see Ben do well, because he can bring so much to the table when given a chance... However, I have always loved the characters from the early days... esp. Jack and Daniel and their friendship! And NO, that does not mean that I dislike Teal'c and Sam.

                            In the end, what matters is the episodes. I expect there will be some episodes that could be considered Mitchell-centric in the second season, as well as character centric episodes for others, and hopefully team episodes. And, as long as it feels balanced, that's really more important than the credits.
                            This is it in a nutshell... a good balance of stories and interactions. I agree.
                            Last edited by Kas; 19 October 2005, 01:28 PM.

                            Comment


                              Well, the comments in Joe's blog have been pretty vicious to every actor and fan (except CJ/Teal'c, although someone jokingly -I hope- remedied that). But I happened to go over there, and saw just a terrible accusation of BB. He has more shots because he's an egomaniac who demanded more shots. (I'm not quoting exactly, but that's the gist) If someone thinks there are too many shots of Mitchell, if they think that spells the coming of "The Ben Browder Show" well, fine. Whether I agree or not, that's how they feel. But, to say that the credits are due to BB's ego, when there's no proof whatsoever was uncalled for.

                              And, I'm also sick of seeing, Everyone is sick of Mitchell. The new credits have destroyed any good feelings anyone has for BB. There is no universal opinion that everyone shares. BB isn't loved or hated by everyone. No one is.
                              I'm a girl! A girly girly girl!

                              Okay, you got me. I can't accept change. This message may look like it was typed on a computer and posted on the internet, but it is actually cave drawings delivered by smoke signals.

                              Naquada Enhanced Chastity Belts -SG1 edition. On sale now! Heck, I'll give them away

                              Daniel Jackson Appreciation and Discussion -because he's more than pretty

                              http://forum.gateworld.net/showthread.php?t=89


                              Daniel Jackson: The Beacon of Hope and The Man Who Opened the Stargate

                              Comment


                                Originally posted by Dani347
                                Well, the comments in Joe's blog have been pretty vicious to every actor and fan (except CJ/Teal'c, although someone jokingly -I hope- remedied that). But I happened to go over there, and saw just a terrible accusation of BB. He has more shots because he's an egomaniac who demanded more shots. (I'm not quoting exactly, but that's the gist) If someone thinks there are too many shots of Mitchell, if they think that spells the coming of "The Ben Browder Show" well, fine. Whether I agree or not, that's how they feel. But, to say that the credits are due to BB's ego, when there's no proof whatsoever was uncalled for.

                                And, I'm also sick of seeing, Everyone is sick of Mitchell. The new credits have destroyed any good feelings anyone has for BB. There is no universal opinion that everyone shares. BB isn't loved or hated by everyone. No one is.
                                I know, it's a real frenzy of posters with agendas in his blog. I hate the tag of everyone feels this, everyone says that but I guess we shouldn't take it too much to heart. I'm sure Joe's used to this and I know he trawls around to see other threads when he's logged on.

                                The only thing I hope is, is that Ben doesn't go into that arena without seeing the positive threads. As he and his family are very computer/internet savvy then I'm sure that some things are getting back - but hopefully, not the idea that everyone thinks this or that in the negativity! People really are taking advantage of Joe's blog because they feel that they can get to him and make him assume that they are representative of the whole of fandom, which is why I mentioned that I really wished he would turn them off. Just carry on reading threads and other boards to get a representation, although I wouldn't say that any discussion board is really typical of the general viewership who are not that heavily invested.

                                Oh, and why don't they realise that the putting together of the credit sequences would not have been his design or control. I really hate seeing any human being taking this type of dren on public forums.

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