Cameron - Discussion and Appreciation

[Dream-a-Little]

Maybe its a Ben thing.
Anyway, I enjoy it. He brings out the woman in her.

Sam's inner woman can be a bit neurotic! I'm going to respectfully ask Ben to please refrain from bringing her out! I'm afraid I always found Sam to be a very monotone character in the past. This season she doesn't seem as dull or flat in nature to me. For me that’s a definite improvement. But then I find all the characters vastly improved upon when they are interacting with Mitchell.

Oh hell, I confess I fast forward through the other characters when they are not interacting with Mitchell. For me Sam, Daniel and Teal’c, when they aren’t with Mitchell, are pretty much just people who walk back and forth across my TV screen really, really fast with squiggly lines through them and don’t make any sound when they talk.

[Dream-a-Little]

I'm not sure he wasn't still a bit over the top on that one, but, like I'm said, I'm willing to accept any plausible excuse!

He was being chased by a foaming at the mouth Zombie. Uh, isn't that over the top just in and of itself?. I think this scene was just for fun.

Killer bugs, zombies, and the wraith over in Atlantis are kind of like vampires. Do you think TPTB have spent way too much time watching Sci Fi's Saturday night B movie offerings?

[cajnjirl]

He was being chased by a foaming at the mouth Zombie. Uh, isn't that over the top just in and of itself?. I think this scene was just for fun.

Killer bugs, zombies, and the wraith over in Atlantis are kind of like vampires. Do you think TPTB have spent way too much time watching Sci Fi's Saturday night B movie offerings?

Maybe. We'll know for sure and certain if we see any giant snakes.

[ChillinTheMost]

Sam's inner woman can be a bit neurotic! I'm going to respectfully ask Ben to please refrain from bringing her out!

LOL.

I'm afraid I always found Sam to be a very monotone character in the past. This season she doesn't seem as dull or flat in nature to me. For me that’s a definite improvement. But then I find all the characters vastly improved upon when they are interacting with Mitchell.

I agree. I like the other characters best when they are with Mitchell. While I realize that everyone feels this way about their own favorite characters, Mitchell does bring a different tone to the show.

Trying to put it into words, I think I'd say that Mitchell is the guy who is everyone's friend. He treats everyone on his team as equals to him and each other.

Jack's situation was different. Daniel was a quiet, peaceful archeologist. It was Jack's job to protect him. Sam was subordinate to Jack in rank and no matter how much she contributed to their team, she would always be bound by those military restraints. Jack was the conduit to the freedom that Teal'c knew was his right, and Teal'c would always hold Jack at a higher esteem because of this. While all three were Jack's friends, they really weren't ever on the same "plane" and he was.

With Mitchell, it's different. By the time Mitchell meets Daniel, he is a competent soldier/adventurer/archeologist. Sam is an equal in rank and an old friend. Teal'c and Mitchell are getting to know each other on equal ground, neither really owing the other. Mitchell can be their friend. That, along with his natural easy-going nature, has made for a more relaxed atmosphere among the team, especially when they are with him.

So, yes, I like the others best when they interact with Mitchell. Not just because that means Mitchell is on my screen, but because they are relaxed and having fun, which is fun for me!

[I may have gone off on a tangent, there...]

Oh hell, I confess I fast forward through the other characters when they are not interacting with Mitchell. For me Sam, Daniel and Teal’c, when they aren’t with Mitchell, are pretty much just people who walk back and forth across my TV screen really, really fast with squiggly lines through them and don’t make any sound when they talk.

Haha! Yeah, I watch it all during the first viewing, but there are definite non-Mitchell scenes that get fastforwarded through. I remember on a FarScape site [back in the good old days ], I was visiting a thread talking about Crichton and someone wrote something about the other characters and my response was, "There are other characters???..."

[Kas]

Haha! Yeah, I watch it all during the first viewing, but there are definite non-Mitchell scenes that get fastforwarded through.

LOL! Me three...

I think for me it's always because some other scenes are just talk, talk, talk. The actors also seem to be more static - with Ben, there is always something to watch. He's all action and adds to the scene with his handling of objects, hand actions or body turning etc... never just still. His style of acting is permanently active and that's the style I do tend to care for more. I'm loving Beau as Landry too. He is really finding his niche as a very different SGC General.

[Kas]

Not really. Vol'nec might not have followed him through the tripwires, he might have gone another way or just stood back and fired his staff at them.

Totally agree. That was my take on the situation. Mitchell was making certain that Volnek actually moved into the area with the claymores. It was also discussed that Volnek was in possession of the crystal, so I would have thought that was on his mind... its retrieval. I'm wondering if any of that fight scene was edited where you may have had the impression that Mitch lifted something from him?

[ShardsofGlass]

Actually, Mitchell couldn't have been thinking of retrieving the crystal because he was still out of phase and his hand would've passed right through it. I think that one scene with Mitchell was just poor writing. Volnek was following Mitchell just fine, so why did Mitchell stop before the claymores? Why not just keep going and let Volneck keep chasing him? It makes no sense. However, the writers needed Mitchell to be standing near that tree stump so that they could cut between Mitchell and SGC where Sam and Daniel were figuring out how to reverse the phase problem at the worse possible moment for Mitchell. The writers needed him to stall there so they could flash back and forth between teh two scenes and build suspense. And they needed Mitchell near the tree so he could break off a piece.

I just handwaved it because I enjoyed the rest of the ep, and it went by fairly quickly.

[Kas]

Actually, Mitchell couldn't have been thinking of retrieving the crystal because he was still out of phase and his hand would've passed right through it. I think that one scene with Mitchell was just poor writing. Volnek was following Mitchell just fine, so why did Mitchell stop before the claymores? Why not just keep going and let Volneck keep chasing him? It makes no sense. However, the writers needed Mitchell to be standing near that tree stump so that they could cut between Mitchell and SGC where Sam and Daniel were figuring out how to reverse the phase problem at the worse possible moment for Mitchell. The writers needed him to stall there so they could flash back and forth between teh two scenes and build suspense. And they needed Mitchell near the tree so he could break off a piece.

I just handwaved it because I enjoyed the rest of the ep, and it went by fairly quickly.

D---, it's amazing how much I actually forget... You're right, he wouldn't have been able to take it, until after he was phased. I can't remember what happened after, wasn't he just lifted and thrown? Yep, that's definitely a writing problem.

However, if he'd have carried on running, wouldn't he have stood a chance of being blown up?... I had the feeling that the claymores had been placed whilst Mitchell was hunting down Volnek, with him just knowing the general area of where they had been laid. I thought that's what Teal'c had been doing whilst he lured Volnek to chase him. I still am with Lightsabre that him stopping and taunting was to make absolutely certain that Volnek hit the right spot. I really do need to watch this again though.

[ChillinTheMost]

That's what I thought, too, but there was a better way to handle it. They could have shown Volnek actually stopping from chasing Mitchell. I believe he was coming out of the woods and the claymores were set up in an opening. They could have shown Mitchell running through the wire and then turning around and noticing that Volnek seemed hesitant to come out of the relative safety of the woods. THEN, Mitchell could have backtracked to the tree stump to tease Volnek from the woods. Volnek tries to shoot Mitchell, Mitchell shows that that doesn't work and does the dancy thing to entice Volnek out of the woods and then we pick up with where he is "rephased" or whatever.

This way it's more natural that Mitchell is improvising to get Volnek out of the woods. Actually, now that I think about it, maybe this is what the writers intended. I'll have to recheck, but I think Volnek did pause at the woods, but the film splicing or editing or whatever chopped out a few seconds that might have better shown that Mitchell realizes this before he stops running and turns to taunt Volnek. From the editing, it looks like he just decided to taunt without reason and a few seconds of tape showing that Mitchell realized that Volnek had stopped following him would have made Mitchell's actions necessary.

Yeah, that's the fanwank I was waiting for...

[ChillinTheMost]

...However, if he'd have carried on running, wouldn't he have stood a chance of being blown up?...

Not that he knew of. Teal's arm with gun went through him as did Volnek's staff blasts. The whole reason that Mitchell was the decoy was because he could be within range of the blast when it went off without being hurt along with Volnek. He could stand on the wire [or "through" it, since he was out of phase] and wait for Volnek to jump on [through] him, and then Volnek would blast into pieces all around him.

Oh, Yuk, why did I just go there?

It was only after he "rephased" into our dimension that Teal'c had to make sure that Mitchell got out of blast range.

I really do need to watch this again though

Yes. As one of the best episodes EVAH, [IMO] I think this episode should be rewatched quite often... if only for research purposes...

[Dream-a-Little]

Maybe. We'll know for sure and certain if we see any giant snakes.

Season 10, probably episode 200.

[Dream-a-Little]

.

That's what I thought, too, but there was a better way to handle it. They could have shown Volnek actually stopping from chasing Mitchell. I believe he was coming out of the woods and the claymores were set up in an opening. They could have shown Mitchell running through the wire and then turning around and noticing that Volnek seemed hesitant to come out of the relative safety of the woods. THEN, Mitchell could have backtracked to the tree stump to tease Volnek from the woods. Volnek tries to shoot Mitchell, Mitchell shows that that doesn't work and does the dancy thing to entice Volnek out of the woods and then we pick up with where he is "rephased" or whatever.

This way it's more natural that Mitchell is improvising to get Volnek out of the woods. Actually, now that I think about it, maybe this is what the writers intended. I'll have to recheck, but I think Volnek did pause at the woods, but the film splicing or editing or whatever chopped out a few seconds that might have better shown that Mitchell realizes this before he stops running and turns to taunt Volnek. From the editing, it looks like he just decided to taunt without reason and a few seconds of tape showing that Mitchell realized that Volnek had stopped following him would have made Mitchell's actions necessary.

Yeah, that's the fanwank I was waiting for...

I must be odd; this scene doesn't bother me at all. This is another Allan M. script and I think this is basically another version of the “walk up the ramp' scene that we got in Prototype. They needed Mitchell on the wrong side of the trip wire so that Teal'c had to rescue him. It made dealing with Volnek a "walk up the ramp" with Teal'c this time.

Essentially that was what happened in Prototype. Rumor has it that Mitchell was supposed to shoot the clone by himself. Ben objected because he felt it was more appropriate story wise for Daniel to do it. (Allen M. was quoted as saying Ben was insisting on giving away a scene in one of his episodes to MS that was a major scene for Ben because Ben felt it worked better for the story for it to go to Daniel.) General consensus in forums where it has been discussed is that this scene in Prototype was it. I think Ben’s reasoning for that was probably because of Daniel's connection to the original Anubis story line. The ending to that was something that some fans found unsatisfactory because it was actually Oma that defeated Anubis by engaging him in endless battle. They wanted the emotional satisfaction of seeing Daniel defeat Anubis due to his past history with him. Kind of like test audiences wanted the wife to shoot Glenn Close in Fatal Attraction. Unfortunately that wasn’t a version of Anubis that Daniel was capable of killing. This time you had an Anubis version that Daniel actually could kill. And it would seem that the writers wanted to shoot themselves in the foot by depriving Daniel fans of the emotional satisfaction of that scene.

Anyways, JM thanked PD for the "Walk up the Ramp" scene at the end of Prototype. I think basically what PD came up with in response to Ben insisting on Daniel shooting the clone was this scene as a compromise. You basically get a repeat here in Arthur’s Mantle of that approach. Otherwise it would have been Mitchell coming in and basically stealing Teal'c's thunder in a story line that had been up to that point carried by him.

I think Ben actually understands where the long time Stargate fans are coming from and what they want from this show way better than the current writers and producers do. He has always seemed to be a very perceptive person with really good instincts. And unlike a lot of other actors he’s willing to put the overall good of the story over his own personal aggrandizement. Very few actors give up scenes or lines to other actors because it is better for the story for them to do so. I’m betting that neither MS or AT would do it if the situation was reversed. I think if they actually let Ben participate in the show on a level beyond in front of camera talent, a lot of the bellyachers on this board would actually stand a way better chance of seeing the kind of show that they profess to want. I highly doubt that the current PTB will allow that however.

But then again, given the way most of these fans behave, do I really want them to get what they want? Hmmmm...not really !

[ChillinTheMost]

Not sure if anyone is interested, but another site has recapped a few FarScape episodes. They have auctions for fangroups to bid for recaps - money goes to charities generally having to do with providing teaching supplies for kids - and the FarScape gang has won the bids three times! Considering there have only been a half dozen or so auctions, open to ANY fangroup for ANY show, this is pretty impressive. Three different people have recapped three quite different episodes with three interesting results...

They just recapped A Human Reaction. Recapper Jacob gives a probing and introspective analysis John and the changes happening in his life.
http://www.televisionwithoutpity.com...limit=25&sort=

They also recapped the Premiere. Recapper Couch Baron gets his first view of FarScape and John Crichton and falls in love. Just to help you understand, Couch Baron is a gay male and his newfound love for John is written hilariously. [Read the first paragraph, you'll get an idea of what I mean.] It's a great, fun read.

http://www.televisionwithoutpity.com...limit=50&sort=

The first show they recapped was Crackers Don't Matter by Recapper Strega. I have to admit that I was least impressed with this one, but I think much of that was because the author had a different vision of Crichton than I did. We all know I am as pro-Crichton as I am pro-Mitchell, maybe even more so, so my vision of him is skewed by my love for him. I don't want to discourage anyone from reading it, because it is still great, I just have some issues with his/her analysis of John.

http://www.televisionwithoutpity.com...limit=50&sort=

eta: Okay, so I'm about halfway through reading the CDM recap and it's funnier than I remember. See? I can get over my Crichton-issues. This line cracked me up:
After John gives yet another of his Earth Crichtonisms:

I've just formed a new theory: Crichton gradually goes nuts in the course of the show because the poor little overworked translator microbes are getting revenge by frying his brain one neuron at a time.

[Dream-a-Little]

Not sure if anyone is interested, but another site has recapped a few FarScape episodes. They have auctions for fangroups to bid for recaps - money goes to charities generally having to do with providing teaching supplies for kids - and the FarScape gang has won the bids three times! Considering there have only been a half dozen or so auctions, open to ANY fangroup for ANY show, this is pretty impressive. Three different people have recapped three quite different episodes with three interesting results...

They just recapped A Human Reaction. Recapper Jacob gives a probing and introspective analysis John and the changes happening in his life.
http://www.televisionwithoutpity.com...limit=25&sort=

They also recapped the Premiere. Recapper Couch Baron gets his first view of FarScape and John Crichton and falls in love. Just to help you understand, Couch Baron is a gay male and his newfound love for John is written hilariously. [Read the first paragraph, you'll get an idea of what I mean.] It's a great, fun read.

http://www.televisionwithoutpity.com...limit=50&sort=

The first show they recapped was Crackers Don't Matter by Recapper Strega. I have to admit that I was least impressed with this one, but I think much of that was because the author had a different vision of Crichton than I did. We all know I am as pro-Crichton as I am pro-Mitchell, maybe even more so, so my vision of him is skewed by my love for him. I don't want to discourage anyone from reading it, because it is still great, I just have some issues with his/her analysis of John.

http://www.televisionwithoutpity.com...limit=50&sort=

eta: Okay, so I'm about halfway through reading the CDM recap and it's funnier than I remember. See? I can get over my Crichton-issues. This line cracked me up:
After John gives yet another of his Earth Crichtonisms:

These are great! Thank you! Counting down to sword play and all that lovely mud!

[shester]

Sword play and all that mud was great.
Sybil