Cameron - Discussion and Appreciation

[Dream-a-Little]

Karlsweb has a transcript of BB's interview in the latest official Stargate magazine. I thought the following quote was something that it would be good for everyone to keep in mind. Especially me, since I was never good at waiting to open my Christmas presents until Christmas. Patience is a virtue...

The idea that what you see up front is all that you’re going to get out of a character is narrow, it’s shallow. As opposed to opening the whole ‘Christmas present’ on day one, string it over time. The question is, ‘Have we seen enough to feel satisfied and interested in the character?’ Because quite frankly, when you bring new characters into a series, they are by definition more shallow in comparison to the characters who have been there for eight years, because the audience doesn’t know them that well. The audience can see textures and patterns in the characters they have been watching for years, but they can’t see those in the new character. It’s only as the character unfolds that they can see more. It’s a very difficult balancing act and one that primarily falls on the writing team and on the shoulders of everyone else who makes the show.

<snip>

You trust the writers and the other actors, and that the story will unfold at an appropriate time.”

Here's the link to the rest of the interview:

http://www.starburstcards.com/Karlsw...taStores00.htm

[gbbarb]

I can't see how this is a spoiler, so I took off the tags. I hope that's okay. Anyway, I heard this about not trusting Mitchell too, but it came from someone who had gone to see MS at a con in the UK. I believe the comment had to do strictly with OTG and not about Mitchell in general. And in that context, where Mitchell says he's the best one to act like a drug dealer, I can see why Daniel wouldn't trust him. Heck, I didn't trust him to be a good drug dealer, either! But I think otherwise it's pretty clear that Daniel does trust him.

I could swear I read an article where it talked about this becoming more prevelant in season 10 (season two for me, hee). Of course I can't find the article any more so I don't know if I dreamed or the medicine I'm taking is making me hallucinate.

[ShardsofGlass]

Okay, I can't stand it! I've been here on GW and another site, which shall remain nameless, and I've just seen nothing but BB and Mitchell bashing. So can we talk about Cam as a leader? It's clear he has less experience in gate travel than Sam. Is this a problem or not? Does Cam act to young to be the leader? Does it bother you that he acted on his own in Stronghold or went off to help Teal'c in AM? (I'm going to leave OTG out of my list because I really hated the way Mitchell was portrayed in part of that ep.)

So, speak up, everyone. What do you think?

[Lightsabre]

Okay, I can't stand it! I've been here on GW and another site, which shall remain nameless, and I've just seen nothing but BB and Mitchell bashing. So can we talk about Cam as a leader? It's clear he has less experience in gate travel than Sam. Is this a problem or not? Does Cam act to young to be the leader? Does it bother you that he acted on his own in Stronghold or went off to help Teal'c in AM? (I'm going to leave OTG out of my list because I really hated the way Mitchell was portrayed in part of that ep.)

So, speak up, everyone. What do you think?

I agree with you Shards.
I'm dead sick of the Mitchell bashing.
On the leadership thread, which I'm sure many have seen, it's rampant.
One poster has started calling him Cambo (funny, true, but it's in a derogatory way) and even criticised his weapon of choice in 'Stronghold'.
I mean, how much more petty can you get. He used a different gun, rather than a p90.
The horror.
He frakked up in 'Stronghold', but it's nothing none of the other chars haven't done.
In AM, I thought it was reasonable. He had friends among the Sodan and he wanted to make sure they were ok. He didn't go the first time, but he went the second when something had happened to Teal'c.
I thought the scene with Teal'c taking a swing at him was pretty off too.
I don't see how an experience commander needs gate travel experience to command an SG team. He KNOWS how to effectively command his troops.
He's read all the mission reports, so he knows how to behave.
Basically, I don't see the bar to his being solo commander.

[Dream-a-Little]

Okay, I can't stand it! I've been here on GW and another site, which shall remain nameless, and I've just seen nothing but BB and Mitchell bashing. So can we talk about Cam as a leader? It's clear he has less experience in gate travel than Sam. Is this a problem or not? Does Cam act to young to be the leader? Does it bother you that he acted on his own in Stronghold or went off to help Teal'c in AM? (I'm going to leave OTG out of my list because I really hated the way Mitchell was portrayed in part of that ep.)

I bet I know what other site you are talking about and I wouldn’t give any credence to anything that comes out of it. It’s all about X and unless you are basically wallpaper and don’t threaten X’s screen time or somehow your presence is seen as something that will provide X with more screen time, you are to be reviled and hated at great length. Even poor Y who was once seen to be a source of more screen time for X is starting to fall out of favor since it became known that Y would have an episode that predominately features Y and not X. God help poor Y if Y does not spend most of Y’s time with X in season 10. In other words, just hold your nose, troll them for spoilers and roll your eyes and marvel at the opportunity for group therapy that is just sitting out there waiting for some ambitious psychiatrist to exploit.

I’m going to ignore the objectionable part of OTG too, since I think it says more about PDL and Allen M. than Mitchell. I’m also going to ignore Stronghold for the same reason. I’m inclined to believe that they are not truly representative of the rest of the writing team and therefore not truly representative of Mitchell.

I don’t really think that less experience in gate travel is a problem in this case, since Mitchell was adamant about building a team of good people from which to draw input from. “Ideas anyone?” is a question that he is not afraid to ask, and does on more than one occasion. Nor do I think that age is an issue.

I think Mitchell may have shown a bit of lack of confidence in Ethon, but it was proven that his first instincts about destroying the satellite in the beginning and again when he “had a clear shot” were right. He also demonstrated the willingness to step forward and make a hard decision that others did not want to make. That seems to have put his feet back under him in the second half of OTG where he demonstrates decisive leadership on the Bridge of the Odyssey in making the call to take Ba’al down. He clearly has involved himself in the mission prep because he actively participates in briefing the others. On Ba’al’s ship he again stops to ask for ideas, but is quick to spring into action when events become explosive. No hesitation there and he handled himself well.

In the Scourge he again is quick to take control of the situation when things go haywire. His first instinct is to stand and fight here as I would hope it would be, but when orders from the Pentagon are invoked he complies as would be expected. No renegade behavior here. He is decisive when he needs to be and asks questions of his team and listens to their input when appropriate. He demonstrates the ability to improvise when they are at the research station.

In Arthur’s Mantle he remains calm in the face of the type of situation that he would have no experience handling. That lack of experience didn’t see to impact anything here. And this is a job where you would be expected to find yourself in situations that have no precedent and cannot be trained for. He asked good questions and worked with Carter to find a way to communicate with the rest of the SGC. It didn’t bother me in the least that he went after Teal’c here. I would have expected Jack to do the same for the exact same reasons.

If you take out the PDL/Allen M. aberrations, I don’t see anything that argues against him as leader of SG-1 and quiet a few things that argue in favor of it. He asks questions where appropriate, incorporates his teams input when appropriate, improvises when necessary, is willing to make the hard decisions when others are not, he dealt well with weird out there situations like being invisible, he values the lives of his team members enough to risk his own for them.

[Cpt. Ritter]

Okay, I can't stand it! I've been here on GW and another site, which shall remain nameless, and I've just seen nothing but BB and Mitchell bashing. So can we talk about Cam as a leader? It's clear he has less experience in gate travel than Sam. Is this a problem or not? Does Cam act to young to be the leader? Does it bother you that he acted on his own in Stronghold or went off to help Teal'c in AM? (I'm going to leave OTG out of my list because I really hated the way Mitchell was portrayed in part of that ep.)

So, speak up, everyone. What do you think?

I'll never understand the BB and Mitchell bashing. Honestly I never will. The guy came in to fill the vacant slot in SG-1 left by O'Neills passing, to be honest, Season 8 wasn't that great, but Season 9 has really made up for it.

Just because he has less experience with gate travel doesn't make him any less of a leader. He has people skills and gets along well with his team. He's forged a bond with Teal'c that rivals O'Neill's. Honestly I don't understand why his is a problem for some people, not to mention he was given command because "the band" had all gone off to do other things.

As for him going off to save Teal'c by himself. Hey, I'd want a CO to do that. He was willing to put his life on the line for his friend, that's something in a leader that we've never really seen in Carter before. He's rash, there is no denying that, but he doesn't do things stupidly. He has a purpose and goal to them. In short, there's method to his madness.

He's been portrayed differently in different episodes but the overall feeling I've gotten was that Mitchell is a honest to goodness great commander and terrific character. He's a wonderful addition to SG-1 that I can't understand how some people can hate him.

That's my two sense.

[shester]

Please!! Jack would have done the same thing as Cam did in AM. No way would he have stood there with Carter while her and Daniel deciphered that mess. He would have gone same as Cam.
I personally liked Stronghold. I don't think Cam was rash in going to get Teal'c. The mission was to go get him and that's what he did. He didn't risk Carter or Daniel's lives to do it. Not one time did I think he was Rambo. He was doing his job.
I also liked OTG. A little comedy. I thought it was funny. I had fun watching it. I tend to go by my first impression. I had fun with the episode. I really don't care what everyone else thinks. All the Mitchell naysayers need to get a life. It is usually the same 7 or 8 who have nothing better to do than spend a lot of time at GW trying to push their opinions down everyones throats. They think if they keep boring us with the same old gripe that we will change our minds. Hate to disappoint, not going to happen. I know Ben is a great actor and they will not change my mind.
As to the other nameless site, I quit going there. It is not a Stargate site but a particular character's site and I got sick of it.
I am crazy about Mitchell and have tons of confidence that he will get better and better as Ben reveals more of more of his character in the months to come. Just hang in there and don't get so frustrated.
Sybil

[Anya]

Okay, I can't stand it! I've been here on GW and another site, which shall remain nameless, and I've just seen nothing but BB and Mitchell bashing. So can we talk about Cam as a leader? It's clear he has less experience in gate travel than Sam. Is this a problem or not? Does Cam act to young to be the leader? Does it bother you that he acted on his own in Stronghold or went off to help Teal'c in AM? (I'm going to leave OTG out of my list because I really hated the way Mitchell was portrayed in part of that ep.)

So, speak up, everyone. What do you think?

Cam having less experience than Sam doesn't really matter to me. Does he know how to lead a team? Does he know how to get the best out of each member? Yes! He knows he's less experienced, but as Ethon showed, his instincts turned out to be right on the money compared to the "experience" of the rest of the team (not that I'm dissing the other guys, but I just recently rewatched Icon, and Jack mentioned right off the bat that it was none of their business, but Daniel decided to meddle anyway. The lesson wasn't learned one year later (again, not bashing Daniel. He's idealistic/hopeful/etc.)

Cam acting "too young"? Because he's enthusiastic? Some on the boards chalk this up to immaturity, but I see enthusiasm. Sometimes you need that to get through a day/mission/assignment. He knows when to tone it down and be serious (well, he's learning to, anyway )

It didn't even occur to me, when I first saw Stronghold, that the fans would have such a strong reaction to him charging up the hill. Sam stated that the mission objective was to take the gate, proceed to the mothership, beam up and save Teal'c. But she didn't anticipate the big gun! Before Mitchell advanced, I clearly heard someone say "Go, go, go!" behind him (by the rock). He knew the gun needed to be taken care of in order for the rest of the mission to proceed. I think he knew that Carter had his back, but had he waited, the mothership would have left, and their mission would have failed. The two Jaffa who caught him alone in the pyramid were a plot device, to show the "consequences" of his "rash" actions. Whatever. Besides, the guards just stood there for the longest time, just in time for Sam and Daniel to "save his butt," so all's well anyway.

For both Stronghold and Arthur's Mantle, I found that the episodes held my attention the entire time, and I was entertained. I didn't see anything wrong with him going to the Sodan village, for the same reasons people have stated. He needs to be doing something, and Jack would have done the exact same thing. He showed great concern when he first arrived, realizing that his friends were annihilated. His idea to lure Volnek was sound -- he couldn't be hurt! Why risk Teal'c when he (Cam) could accomplish the same thing with no danger? Okay, it backfired a bit, but he managed okay, and he did get the crystal from Volnek during the fight.

I could be a bit biased, because I like Mitchell and Ben. I'm not military, so I don't know what the "obvious" dos and don'ts are. I'm not out to look for things to nitpick when I watch an episode, though I'm learning to spot the things some Gaters will gripe about after seeing Babylon (hat on backwards, chewing gum, the way he holds the freakin' gun. It's madness! ) I usually only nitpick when the ep becomes boring (Ex Deus Machina, for example, and many at GW loved that ep! Except for the patches scene, it was mediocre.)

The only time Mitchell as a leader failed to me was on Prometheus when he and Sam hemmed and hawed and couldn't make a decision about blowing up the satellite. I hadn't noticed that happen in previous eps (if it did, could someone tell me which?). He had been pretty decisive up to that point.

And then there was OTG, which people have brought up too. I didn't find it too horrible, but I did prefer Mitchell in the second half of that episode than the first half, but I think that's due to the way he was directed (seemed uncharacteristically whiny when the leader guy told him SG-1 would be released if they gave him what he wanted.)

I liked the Mitchell character when I first met him in Avalon. I've enjoyed seeing the layers that BB is giving the character. Not everyone reveals who they are in the first year. I've been teaching for ten years, and I'm still learning new things about my co-workers that I never would have guessed about them in a million years. To me, a leader is someone who trusts his/her subordinates, knows when to direct them, when they need encouragement, and would rather put themselves out on a limb than risk the safety of their team. Mitchell has done all these things so far. Sure he's made mistakes, but I don't see him endangering the team so much as himself.

JMHO, of course.

I'm learning to recognize the Mitchell bashers on the other threads. To save my sanity, I choose to ignore them. I prefer this thread. You guys are awesome!

[shester]

I am so with you Anya. I recognize the bashers too. I rarely go to the episode threads. Ben said in the Stargate Mag. that he doesn't show everything. He wants Mitchell to continue to grow. Ben loves that part of a character. Without growth you are boring. I am an incurable Ben fan. He has such talent (okay he is gorgeous too). Not a lot of actors can act. Ben can. With him it is a subtle thing. He brings in the growth slowly but you can see it.
Okay I am through.
Sybil

[Cpt. Ritter]

Anya, Shester, good points. And I really want Mitchell to grow as we see more episodes, it makes the character dymanic and I love that.

: Have you heard Colonel Mitchell, that there are some who do not like you.
: What the 'ell's goin' on?
:They seem to take a pervese pleasure in insulting you.
:Fine, SWORD TIME!!!

The above cartoon is not meant to be serious in any way shape or form, it is merely meant to rip on those who would rip on Mitchell. LOL, have a good laugh.

[shester]

There is one thing I think people forget. Jack lost a son. No matter how lighthearted something is, the sadness is never truly gone. With Mitchell, he almost died so he wants to enjoy life. He gets a bit goofy and excited. He is glad to be alive and moving around. Can he be serious? Yes, of course, he can. But he also relaxes and has fun when he can. He is a good leader. He has the right qualities for it. Just rambling.
Sybil

[Kas]

There is one thing I think people forget. Jack lost a son. No matter how lighthearted something is, the sadness is never truly gone. With Mitchell, he almost died so he wants to enjoy life. He gets a bit goofy and excited. He is glad to be alive and moving around. Can he be serious? Yes, of course, he can. But he also relaxes and has fun when he can. He is a good leader. He has the right qualities for it. Just rambling.
Sybil

And I love your rambling. That's a great point...

He showed great concern when he first arrived, realizing that his friends were annihilated.

As Shester says... Ben's acting is so subtle. I guess being more attuned to his naturalistic style, we could pick up on this. I'm so amazed at the amount of people that say he showed no concern with what he witnessed though. Mitchell is military... you saw him look from the corner of his eyes, pause before going in the hut with his mouth firmly pressed together in what seemed to me to be a reaction of 'sick to the gut' at what had happened. I guess some seem to like more in ya face - hissy stuff whereas Ben's military reaction whilst on a mission was just spot on. IMO anyway.

[ShardsofGlass]

I saw that too -- his quick reaction to the Sodan. And it kills me when people say Cam didn't have a reaction to the Sodan because it was obvious to me that he wasn't given a chance by the writers to react. You know, that if they had shown Cam in the hut with Haikon, or given him a chance to say something to Haikon, even though he was out of phase, we would've seen the reaction. But to say he didn't react, is totally unfair.

[gbbarb]

http://community.livejournal.com/mit...40.html#cutid1

Another good Mitchell fic which talks about how Cam sees his role in the team - smart author - thinks like we do.

[ChillinTheMost]

Here, here! To all that's been said about Mitchell's good leadership skills and all that Mitchell and Ben bring to Stargate!
[Sorry, I've been away... bad cold... so I'm catching up now.]

I wanted to respond to the Mitchell leadership issue, but everyone beat me to what I wanted to say.

I'll even be a bit more positive and say that Mitchell doing the drug trader thing didn't bother me. Why would you send your #1 team to sit in a cornfield and take notes? You have to know that they would take a proactive stance. If I've noticed nothing else about Mitchell, I've noticed that he is proactive. Landry has to know this and he sent him on the mission. Maybe Mitchell didn't make the best drug dealer, but it was a dangerous mission and Daniel and Mary Poppins are too important elsewhere to use as bait. Maybe Teal'c could have done it, but Mitchell was putting his own life on the line and not asking anyone else to do it. Frankly, if Landry only wanted someone to observe, he should have sent SG-159.

In Arthur's Mantle the ONLY thing I saw that could be remotely considered "wrong" was the taunting of Volnek. What was that about? I guess it was to get the crystal, but the writers could have handled that better. Other than that, Arthur's Mantle was near perfection in my eyes.

Storming up the hill in Stronghold? Teal'c and Bratac would be dead if he hadn't done that. That aside, the guy behind him [who seemed to be another leader] told him to "go, go, go" meaning "storm the big gun". I don't know if Carter yelling "Wait for backup" could even be heard by Mitchell. We saw no indication that he heard and ignored. Besides, he was halfway up the hill. Was he supposed to stop in the middle of the hill, exposed, and wait?

The biggest thing in all this is that: this is the was Stargate is. All the heroes are proactive. None moreso than O'Neill. I can see O'Neill doing the same stuff that Mitchell does and he would be praised for it! Hell, I'd praise him for it. It's the stuff heroes are made of. And the same writers are writing this stuff!!! They write their heroes the way they write their heroes, whether they be O'Neill or Mitchell or Sam or Daniel and Teal'c.

Something else that someone mentioned [can't remember if it was this thread or not]: why can't we be a fan of Mitchell AND the other characters??? Especially Carter? It's like, if you're a fan of Samantha, you can't be a fan of Mitchell. I love Samantha and occasionally visit that thread, but most of the time I have to leave without saying anything because it's a LoveSamantha/BashMitchell thread. I think one of the reasons I like the Pro Cam/Sam thread is that the people there like both characters. [Okay, it's only about 3 people there, but it's a start.] Even though I don't want the show to give them a romantic relationship [because I probably wouldn't like the way they handled it], I like the thread because I like both characters.

AAARRRRRGGGGHHHHH! It's so frustrating that everyone else can't see the wonderfulness that Mitchell brings to Stargate! Why must we be the only perfect viewers? haha.
Seriously, I acknowledge that everyone is allowed to have their opinion, but I think if these same exact scripts were used and RDA were still here, the reactions would be totally different. Or if Ben were in this show for 8 years and now RDA were taking his place, some fans would be saying, "RDA is saying Ben's jokes. Only Ben knows how to tell a joke and only he should ever be allowed to give one-liners!"

And you know what I hate the most??? I hate what I just did. Pit one actor/character against the other. RDA was great as O'Neill. O'Neill was a great character. Why can't Ben and Mitchell just be given the same chance?
[And he's not, because after saying that they are giving Ben/Mitchell a chance, they say that nobody can do it like RDA. Yeah, that's being objective. That's starting it with an open mind.]

I also hate this rant that I just had. Maybe I'll delete it later.

Anyway, I know there are some of us excited that a new episode of Stargate is on tonight! Wicked.