Sam Carter/Jack O'Neill Ship Discussion Thread

[Coela Bellatore]

Someone (I can't remember who, one of our resident AF experts, possibly Jenn?) always points out that technically Sam should have gone to get the drinks, as the junior officer, and that Jack doing so was breaking protocol in favour of chivalry. Which is interesting from a ship perspective, that he's treating Sam like a woman here rather than his 2IC.

I don't know anything about that. I was never in the whole Party military stuff. I get my kicks humping crap up a mountain. We took a class in military etiquette and that was the only class in ROTC that I wasn't first in. In fact I was dead last, because I really didn't give a flying **** about it, it wasn't going to help me when there was lead in the air. Now that doesn't mean I can't asskiss with the best of them. I just don't know all the protocol ****.

Oh, and Twilight, he used to be in the Army

[Kel]

Josiane great gif. very cool. I like it

[josiane]

Yes, I have to say that this episode was very rough for Daniel and I think MS acting was terrific. Also, considering the preceding episode, Family I wonder if Teal'c's extremely protective reaction has to do with how things worked out there. Not a great couple of weeks for the romantic life of a couple of SG-1's members, anyway. But I think it also brings Teal'c full circle in trying to undo the damage he did to Sha're, so it's a big episode for him, too.

Agreed. I hadn't really thought much about the effect of this coming right after Family, but I think you're right that it could well have done.

That didn't sit well with me. Of course, we're not privy to everything that's happened in the past, but he really did think he was trying to help and it's natural that it would make him happy. I thought she was being a bit mean there.

I agree with this too - Sam's definitely as bad as Jacob with the snark here and it really shows how broken their relationship has become.

Yes, that was a pretty busy scene. In fact, I need to go back and watch it again. But it seemed like each one of them wanted to see what the other was made of and it seemed to have to do with Sam, whether it was shippy I'm not 100% certain.

Well yes, and the positioning of them is very telling here too, with Sam in the middle literally as well as figuratively. In which case the fact that her body is inclined towards Jack rather than her father shows which way her affections/sympathies are currently lying and probably also didn't help with Jacob's impression!

Josiane great gif. very cool. I like it

I like it too, but can't take the credit - JenniferJF made it I just snurched

[VSS]

Bane:
Favorite Quote:
Jack: “Sir, request permission to beat the crap out of this man.”
Hammond: He says nothing- to me that’s funny.

Thanks, jumble!

Favorite Scene: After Jack’s idea for an electrical current is employed and the goa’uld perks up, he says “I guess my work here is done,” but he’s smiling at Sam to see her reaction to his little joke, and she looks up and smiles back.

This episode opens with them on a planet that seems recently abandoned, and with technology at least as advanced as ours, which rightfully makes the team suspicious. Then the bug shows up and Teal’c is stung. It seems to only take a couple of days for him to be transformed, which shows how very quickly this other world was overrun.

Sam asks for Timothy Harlow, a doctor she worked with while at the Pentagon.

Spoiler:

How she’d know a geneticist is beyond me. But he’s called in to help, and she and Harlow clearly have a great deal of respect for each other, in fact they seem to be friends- until she finds out he called Maybourne. Was Harlow working with the NID? Did he know Maybourne in some other capacity? I don’t think he really knew what Maybourne was really like until the van ride when Maybourne basically admits he’d like to see Teal’c’s transformation carried out, and that shocks Harlow.

It wasn’t necessary to invoke retroviruses and genetics to make Teal’c into an insect incubator, since some real wasps do this exact thing just by laying their eggs in a host, but I guess it sounded cool, and made it happen very quickly.

Another scene I liked was when Jack unloads on the bug when it’s in the gate room, and then says “I just winged it,” which he literally did- if you look closely there’s only a little bit taken out of the wing on one side. And then he jumps back when Sam is spraying it, kind of hiding behind her. He also didn’t want to go back for the “big ugly bugs” in the first place. I think Jack doesn’t like bugs. And snakes. He’s always the one who really grimaces every time Teal’c has to deal with Junior.

But despite his phobias Jack comes up with the idea of external defibrillation for the goa’uld and Janet and Sam take off with it, punctuated by a “What?” from Jack every few sentences; and then there’s the scene I mentioned above as my favorite. It’s the kind of scene that sneaks into your subconscious, like dozens of others that don’t scream “ship” but if it were between any other two people you’d think “What’s going on there?” Think of Daniel making that kind of remark and looking at Sam to see if he can get her to smile. It just never happens. I wonder how much of that was scripted in and how much of it the actors and director put into it on their own?

So Teal’c escapes and makes it to Denver.

Spoiler:

I hadn’t caught that shot of the city or looked at the map of the search area in previous viewings, and I always wondered how Colorado Springs got a ‘hood with a big abandoned building, but now I know it’s supposed to be Denver. I hate things that don’t make sense, and now it does. I’m not sure what to think of the girl- apparently the child of a police officer who was killed in the line of duty and whose mom can barely make ends meet, hence they live in a bad part of town. Which fit with the fact that I felt she really didn’t belong there despite her swagger. Or else she’s a bad actress, but I don’t think so. I think that backstory (which was more than some characters ever get) was specifically designed to explain why her persona didn’t fit. Clever, really.

Loved Teal’c’s line about “Should you be attending an educational institution?” and her reply “What planet are you from?”

Then she gets a call through to Jack- did Teal’c deliberately want the girl to call only him, instead of the SGC or General Hammond? Was that related to the fact that he implied to Jack earlier that he’d rather die than not be himself, and then directly asks Jack to kill him? Or just because they’re close friends? Would Jack have killed him if Jack had known there was no cure at hand?

Then Teal’c and Daniel go back and play with the girl, which considering she lost her Dad, was probably the best way to pay back what he “owed” to her. I’m glad I paid attention to this episode this time around, it makes all the pieces fit together so much better, because I thought it was just some random cute way for Teal’c to repay the debt, but it wasn’t.

One final thought- I think “Bane” didn’t only apply to the bug. It applied very aptly to Maybourne as well. However, I’m glad Harlow redeemed himself, especially because Sam had felt so betrayed. I get the feeling she sometimes has idealistic notions about what people are like- or should be like. I wonder if that had anything to do with the failures she seemed to have with her other personal relationships? Clearly, she overlooked a lot of faults with Jonas for a long time.

Implications for Sam and Jack: That cute little joke of Jack’s seemed like the first real flirting I’ve seen that he’s doing just for the hell of it, as opposed to dealing with some uncomfortable situation like the tank-top or sidearm comments were intended to do. That to me is very significant, precisely because there’s no reason for it except just to make her smile. Aww.

Also, Sam seems to idealize people. I wonder if she knows this about herself? Does that contribute to why she gets it all wrong in Grace?
Oh, and Jack clearly hates creepy crawly things. I bet Sam is the one who has to kill the spiders around

[VSS]

[QUOTE=Twilight506;10269172]
Judging from the ribbons listed, I'm piecing together my own personal made-up biography of Jack...

Born 1952. He has Vietnam ribbons, so he was probably drafted and enlisted in 1970. After returning from Vietnam (say 1973-74?), he probably took night classes and got his college degree and thus was commissioned as an officer.

I thought he was an officer from the beginning, including Vietnam. He could have accomplished that and still caught the tail end of the war. That's just a guess, though.

I was trying to decide what he would major in. Poli sci seemed like a good choice (with a Masters either in Poli sci or public administration) since he was covert ops doing a lot of overseas work.

While his master's degree could be in a lot of things, he has an bachelor's in engineering. That was hanging on the wall of his office on the set in Season 8, according to people who actually visited. Which is an interesting thing considering he acts like he doesn't get what Sam says. I always had the impression he knew more than he let on, and this proves it.

This then led me thinking about Sam - she obviously got her undergrad at the Academy. Her graduate work would have had to have been done elsewhere - UC Berkeley is a great school for astrophysics....

Maybe not, if you're in the Armed Forces, though.
My husband is an alumn of Berkeley and he's already said his kids aren't going there because it's too leftist. And Stanford is kind of the same- they don't allow ROTC. So I'd say someplace in flyover country. Or maybe Caltech.

--

I know someone was pointing out that 1957 would have been pulled from "Brief Candle", my problem is that would have made him too old for Vietnam and he has several Vietnam ribbons, so for purposes of my story, I'm going to stick with 1952.

I agree, we see that actually written down. Plus, that would make RDA's actual age too divergent, IMHO.

Oh, and Twilight, he used to be in the Army

I think that's true, because there was no Special Forces in the AF then.

[Nynaeve506]

I thought he was an officer from the beginning, including Vietnam. He could have accomplished that and still caught the tail end of the war. That's just a guess, though.
While his master's degree could be in a lot of things, he has an bachelor's in engineering. That was hanging on the wall of his office on the set in Season 8, according to people who actually visited. Which is an interesting thing considering he acts like he doesn't get what Sam says. I always had the impression he knew more than he let on, and this proves it.

Interesting that they picked Engineering. I would have pegged him more of a Poli Sci guy. As for the officer bit, the reason I assumed enlisted is because I imagine that the draft was still in effect when he graduated high school - and since he has Vietnam ribbons, I just kind of figured maybe he did his tour and came back to become an officer (you know did night classes and stuff)

Maybe not, if you're in the Armed Forces, though.
My husband is an alumn of Berkeley and he's already said his kids aren't going there because it's too leftist. And Stanford is kind of the same- they don't allow ROTC. So I'd say someplace in flyover country. Or maybe Caltech.

Yeah I'm trying to find a decent school to mention because in my story I have Lt. Hailey and I'm sending her off to grad school. I'll take a look at Caltech. (On another thread someone mentioned Oxford)

I think that's true, because there was no Special Forces in the AF then.

So we're thinking he enlisted army then switched AF later? How would that work? I don't know much about switching branches.

[Pol]

Someone (I can't remember who, one of our resident AF experts, possibly Jenn?) always points out that technically Sam should have gone to get the drinks, as the junior officer, and that Jack doing so was breaking protocol in favour of chivalry. Which is interesting from a ship perspective, that he's treating Sam like a woman here rather than his 2IC.

Jumping in...Jack offered, so there's not really a protocol break, per se. The correct response from Sam would have been something like, "Oh, no Colonel. I'll go. What would you like, Sir?"

I think Jack's going to get it was pure Jack O'Neill...he wanted a drink and he also wanted to make sure the lady with him had one. ::: shrug::

And...I love that gif. Cracked me up!

Oh, and Twilight, he used to be in the Army

Wait...what? Jack was? Where/and when did we learn that?

[Aveo_amacus]

Bane:
Favorite Quote:
Jack: “Sir, request permission to beat the crap out of this man.”
Hammond: He says nothing- to me that’s funny.

Favorite Scene: After Jack’s idea for an electrical current is employed and the goa’uld perks up, he says “I guess my work here is done,” but he’s smiling at Sam to see her reaction to his little joke, and she looks up and smiles back.

Love those moments

Sam asks for Timothy Harlow, a doctor she worked with while at the Pentagon.

Spoiler:

How she’d know a geneticist is beyond me. But he’s called in to help, and she and Harlow clearly have a great deal of respect for each other, in fact they seem to be friends- until she finds out he called Maybourne. Was Harlow working with the NID? Did he know Maybourne in some other capacity? I don’t think he really knew what Maybourne was really like until the van ride when Maybourne basically admits he’d like to see Teal’c’s transformation carried out, and that shocks Harlow.

It wasn’t necessary to invoke retroviruses and genetics to make Teal’c into an insect incubator, since some real wasps do this exact thing just by laying their eggs in a host, but I guess it sounded cool, and made it happen very quickly.

I wondered if it was through the Nanite research she did before the stargate program (BC)??

[Coela Bellatore]

Wait...what? Jack was? Where/and when did we learn that?

He would have had to have been if the things he said were true. There was no AFSOC until 1986. The only infantry role for Air Force would have been PJ's and FAC's but neither of those would have done the things he talked about or been in East Germany.

[leiasky]

He would have had to have been if the things he said were true. There was no AFSOC until 1986. The only infantry role for Air Force would have been PJ's and FAC's but neither of those would have done the things he talked about or been in East Germany.

How interesting! I always kinda felt he was in something like delta force as well and never connected that it wasn't an AF unit.

How difficult is it to be enlisted in one part of the military and switch to another?

[Kel]

Maybe not. Army is army

[penjab]

He would have had to have been if the things he said were true. There was no AFSOC until 1986. The only infantry role for Air Force would have been PJ's and FAC's but neither of those would have done the things he talked about or been in East Germany.

Maybe he was a paratrooper. He seemed to have done a lot of jumps...

[KatG]

Interesting tidbit:

Spoilers for SGU:

Spoiler:

I know that Richard Dean Anderson is appearing in an episode of Stargate Universe, but will we see Amanda Tapping, too? Is there going to be a small Jack/Sam moment waiting for us? I also have a question about the Stargate Atlantis TV-movie — will Elizabeth be in it? — Hilla
MATT: Hilla, you're being a bit greedy hoping for SGU to stage such a reunion ... but in this case, you're in luck. As a source tells me, "If it's quality Jack/Sam time you're looking for, you won't be disappointed." However, you may be disappointed by the following. Atlantis boss Joseph Mallozzi tells the Buzz that while the first draft of Stargate: Extinction is done and is now being fine-tuned, "I'm sorry to say the character of Elizabeth will not be making an appearance."

http://www.tvguide.com/News/MegaBuzz...U-1006743.aspx

[Coela Bellatore]

Maybe he was a paratrooper. He seemed to have done a lot of jumps...

Could have been in Vietnam, but there were no jumps in Vietnam. All the jumps he did afterward would have been SF anyway so there is no telling.

[VSS]

Interesting tidbit:

Spoilers for SGU:

Spoiler:

http://www.tvguide.com/News/MegaBuzz...U-1006743.aspx

Thanks KatG! I have absolutely no time to do any poking around (right now I am sitting outside the library of a one-horse town in the mountains around Lake Tahoe poaching their wifi) so these bits of news are very welcome. And that's a very interesting bit of news, indeed.

Spoiler:

Looks like they're pulling out all the stops to get viewers to watch SGU. But honestly, I'm kind of apprehensive. I don't know why. I like the source, though! Much less likely than other sources to be yanking our chains, IYKWIM.

Spoiler:

Of course, the source of the source could definitely be yanking our chains. So, taken with a giant grain of salt. Like the entire Salt Flats. A nice J/S moment could be anything. But, at least they have a scene together.

Love those moments
I wondered if it was through the Nanite research she did before the stargate program (BC)??

Oh, yes! Nice memory.

Maybe not. Army is army

I thought that if one was in the AF at that time, one would be assigned with an Army SF unit, but not actually be in the army. Is that possible? It would seem that would be the best way for the AF to get people the experience to then start up their own SF teams, and that is exactly what Jack would have done. He'd have been in the very first USAF SF teams. Which kind of makes him well-qualified to be on the ground floor of the development of the SG-1 teams.