Sam Carter/Jack O'Neill Ship Discussion Thread

[IamDKScully]

well, I was signed up for Sentinel..not sure what happened there...So, if you don't want to do Menace Everlovin I can do it. Just let me know

[Everlovin]

Go for it, Skully. I've got lots of stuff happening around then.

[IamDKScully]

Season 5 Rewatch Schedule:

June 29: The Fifth Man - SaraBahama
July 2: Red Sky- ajay
July 6: Rite of Passage - SaraBahama
July 9: Beast of Burden - hlndncr
July 13: The Tomb - neverendingimagination
July 16: Between Two Fires - hlndncr
July 20: 2001 - IamDKScully
July 23: Desperate Measures - SaraBahama
Aug. 3: Wormhole X-Treme - ajay
Aug. 6: Proving Ground - SaraBahama
Aug. 10: 48 Hours - Robinbishop1231
Aug. 13: Summit - Sparky She-Demon
Aug. 17: Last Stand - Sparky She-Demon
Aug. 20: Fail Safe - neverendingimagination
Aug. 24: The Warrior - Everlovin
Aug. 27: Menace - IamDKScully
Sept. 3: The Sentinel - hlndncr
Sept. 7: Meridian - Everlovin
Sept. 10: Revelations - Robinbishop1231

[Everlovin]

Ajay, I'm working on the banner for Red Sky for you, but I'm not really happy with anything that I'm coming up with.

[ajay]

Ajay, I'm working on the banner for Red Sky for you, but I'm not really happy with anything that I'm coming up with.

No worries! I really like it, and it's still 100 times better than anything I could have come up with.

Review shall be coming hopefully tomorrow, when I don't feel like death warmed over (I thought colds were supposed to get better after a few days, not linger for weeks and get worse!!).

[neverendingimagination]

Looks like I checked in just in time, I'll make sure my review is ready for the 13th.

[hlndncr]

well, I was signed up for Sentinel..not sure what happened there...So, if you don't want to do Menace Everlovin I can do it. Just let me know

Sorry about that. I'm not sure what happened, but I'm certain it's my fault. Are you OK with Menace?

[IamDKScully]

Sorry about that. I'm not sure what happened, but I'm certain it's my fault. Are you OK with Menace?

No worries, I'm happy to fill the last spot to make a full roster

[ajay]

Sig by Everlovin

Summary

The team travel to K’Tau and experience some unexpected velocity while exiting the gate. Carter explains they had to bypass some protocols in the gate system to get a lock. They meet Elrad, and since Daniel noticed Asgardian writing, Jack does some name-dropping and they get an invite to the village as friends of the gods.

In the village, while meeting the elders, the sun suddenly dims and the sky turns Red. Malchus believes the Elves (SG-1) are the harbingers of doom. Elf Sam works her doohickey and for once, is without an answer.
Jack and Daniel gatecrash a prayer group to phone up the Asgard, where Elrad and Malchus interpret the Asgard hologram to mean it is the coming of Ragnarok. Jack puts forth a very a well put and pragmatic argument that they should not give up and this ultimate conflict is a test of their ingenuity and courage. It’s the only good argument he has all episode (MUCH better than “we saved your little grey butts!!”).

Sam believes that they may have inadvertently dragged a super heavy element into the sun by bypassing the dialing protocols which is causing the sun to collapse. Ragnarok, indeed. Jack asks Sam if she can save the planet. And again, uncharacteristically, she comes up empty. Say what now?? But Sam always saves the planet!!

Jack attempts to negotiate with the Asgard to save the planet. But uh oh, in doing so they would violate the treaty and open the world to attack by the Goa’uld. And not only this one, but all the planets under the treaty. Tough choice: save this world, but in doing so put a whole bunch more at risk. Carter explains some scientific gobbledygook (we don’t really need to know the particulars), just that her crazy theory involves building then firing a rocket into the sun. They build the rocket, get their super-heavy element, but before they can implement the crazy stunt, sabotage strikes and the rocket is destroyed. Jack, who already had his suspicions of Malchus, lashes out. He wants to leave the K’Tau to die, but the team convince him to stay and try again.

While Daniel attempts to convince the K’Tau to relocate, Sam pulls out the Science and determines that sending another wormhole through the sun with the McLarium may negate the effects of the initial element they introduce.

At the end of the episode, the sun returns to normal, but what saved the day? Was it the McLarium wormhole? Did the Asgard step in unbeknownst to all? Or was it the prayers of the K’Tau?

Review

There are 5 reasons why I love this episode and always have.

1. It’s the first time we see Sam as fallible. It bothers me sometimes that the show depicted her as too perfect. She is only human after all and to expect her to always have the answer is simply unrealistic.

2. Action!Jack. Again we see how fiercely protective he is of his people. When the rocket is destroyed, Jack stalks up to Malchus coiled up like a snake before he strikes. The acting by RDA is brilliant and when he delivers the line “more death is exactly what you people are going to get” I get all tingly inside.

3. The way the team band together and each play their part to convince Jack to stay and help the people. Daniel does his diplomatic voice of the people thing. Sam does her science save-the-planet thing. And Teal’c sways Jack with one perfectly constructed sentence and perfectly positioned eyebrow. Nobody can argue with Teal’c. We would all wither in the face of his logic.

4. We are reminded that Jack is smarter than he looks and paid attention to Carters wormhole physics 101 explanation way back in Season 1. Ahh but Jack, you showed your hand there, claiming to only “understand 1% of what she says half the time”, then explaining to us to why sending a wormhole through the sun may not fix the problem since the energy is not yet reintegrated into matter. Carter is surprised but Hammond, oh he knows. He wouldn’t put up with Jack if he didn’t know he was a lot smarter than he acts.

5. Siler and MWood and their giant wrenches make an apprearance! Because, y’know, rocket science needs some serious wrenching power.

But apart from all that, it is in my opinion a very well balanced and well rounded out episode. The writing is done well enough that I can truly see all the sides of the story. I understand why Carter would let her scientific curiosity get the better of her and bypass protocols to get a lock. I see the perspective of the K’Tau. While there is dissent amongst them about how to treat the Elves, they are all in agreement when it comes to staying on their world. What does it matter if their gods may be aliens? They resignedly accept their fate. The Asgard are not willing to risk the treaty to save one planet, and it cannot be the decision of Jack, Freyr, or even the K’Tau to risk numerous planets in order to save theirs.

The only thing that bothers me is that the effect of the sun turning red looks like a bad impressionist painting. Also, there first time I saw this ep I thought the guy playing Dr MacLaren was a real scientist since he had this incredibly geeky way about him. I was very disappointed to find out he was only an actor.

Overall I give it 8/10.

Shippiness

There is not much out and out shippiness in this episode. But the interaction between Jack and Sam does reveal more of Jack’s expectations of her abilities. He immediately questions her as they come through the gate: “Carter?”. He questions her when the sky turns red: “What just happened”. When she tells him “this planet is dying because of us”, he comes back with “But you can fix it right”.

It’s a fine line between high expectations and complete confidence, and I waver between irritation and respect at how Jack treats Sam, not only in this episode but throughout the show. And I often wonder at how Sam feels about it. The look of regret on her face when she tells Jack she can’t save the planet, is it because she feel she is letting him down, or because she is letting herself down. It’s not apparent here and it may be another indication of the steady decline in their relationship in Season 5. Sam must be tearing herself apart with the enormity of her mistake, and where in later episodes we would see Jack attempt to pull her back (think the repliCarter deal in Season 8), he doesn’t once attempt to console her but just expects her to fix it. Unrealistic expectation or unspoken confidence in her abilities?

Ship Rating 5/10

[Nolamom]

[hlndncr]

Great review ajay!

I enjoy this episode. It's a good story and we get some interesting character development from both Jack and Sam and a few nice moments with Daniel. Unfortunately, Teal'c is relegated to wallpaper. Does he even have any lines? So it falls short of being a great team episode.

I agree it is interesting to see how Sam handles a big whopper of a mistake. Still, I can't entirely blame her for it. She is following orders is under some pressure from an impatient Colonel and a chain of command that has clearly created at the least an atmosphere where taking short cuts and overriding safety protocols to get a lock is acceptable if not expected. She shows considerable tenacity and ingenuity with her many creative attempts to cure the problem.

I also have to say that as much as I love the Asgard, I'm with Jack on this one - they should not be playing gods, no matter how benevolent they may consider themselves to be. It is in this point that I think Teal'c could have played more of a role in the episode. He should have backed Jack up and made the case for not being beholden or deceived by any false gods. I would have enjoyed seeing that.

As for shippiness, I also love the way Jack defers to Sam, places his confidence in her, is calmed and persuaded by her, and delights in her approbation. It's absolutely adorable.

So for entertainment value I would give Red Sky a solid 6/10. It's very rewatchable, if somewhat flawed. And for shippiness it is also a 6/10; nothing flashy, but very gratifying.

[ajay]

Thanks hlndncr! I wrote it as I was watching the episode so I was afraid it came out as a bit of a jumbled mess.

I don't blame Sam for her mistake, and am glad to see none of the team did either. They all said "we did this", not "Carter did this". But I also think Sam's scientific curiosity may have got the better of her when trying to get a lock. She would have been the one to bypass the protocols and probably advised a way to do it without being commanded.

I would have liked to see more from Teal'c also. The K'Tau obviously know who the Goa'uld are since they recognize him as Jaffa. A simple explanation from him as to why he has joined with this human band of explorers as a means to fight false gods would have gone a long way in the argument to relocate. But I also respect the K'Tau in their decision to stay.

[Nynaeve506]

...

Well, okay so here's hoping I remember. I did throw together some pretty ones and I'm posting them in ALL THE PLACES...








Please download these to your own computer

[hedwig]

I don't blame Sam for her mistake, and am glad to see none of the team did either. They all said "we did this", not "Carter did this". But I also think Sam's scientific curiosity may have got the better of her when trying to get a lock. She would have been the one to bypass the protocols and probably advised a way to do it without being commanded.

If I recall, Sam was ordered to bypass the protocols in order to get a lock. She didn't just take it upon herself to do it.

[IamDKScully]

ugh...I haven't really had a chance to put my two cents in lately but I must say that as I'm making my way through this re-watch while the shippy moments are few and far between, there are some really great TEAM-centric episodes