Sam Carter/Jack O'Neill Ship Discussion Thread

[Petra]

Thanks for all the specifics on how individuals are promoted.

Back to my actual question, or maybe I'm trying to make a point here -- I'm not sure, it's too early and I haven't had my coffee...

There's been repeated comments in SG fandom regarding Jack having a sexist attitude toward Carter. Maybe Jack isn't directly in charge of her promotions but certainly he had a hand in putting forth recommendations, etc. Why would he do that if he didn't regard her in a high manner? (Professionally). I also tend to wonder how he privately felt about her promotions (emotionally).

You haven't had your morning coffee yet? lol, and I'm thinking about dinner already..

As I've just said inmy last post this particular fandom idea drives me nuts and I have no idea where did it come from (then again, strange ideas are part of the fandom's charm it's like Daniel's supposed addiction to coffee and inability to hold his liquor).

And how would he feel privately? I think he was/is/will be very proud of her, and knowing how much her career means to her, also happy for her. I really don't see him feeling anything else.

[digitalred93]

Thanks - Nice to know I'm not crazy.

I just haven't seen the sexism. Not like I've personally experienced in real life. Hell, she was his 2IC. Maybe it was accepting the inevitable but my observations of his character lean toward him quickly recognizing her value.

I think I should come clean on how I came to appreciate this series -- last summer I watched all 10 seasons back to back for the first time without reading any fan message boards, etc until I was done. So in other words, I formed my own opinions before venturing out. I'm glad to see that I'm not completely crazy!

And yeah, it's only 9:30 ish in the morning here. Still haven't had that coffee!

[VSS]

You haven't had your morning coffee yet? lol, and I'm thinking about dinner already..

As I've just said inmy last post this particular fandom idea drives me nuts and I have no idea where did it come from (then again, strange ideas are part of the fandom's charm it's like Daniel's supposed addiction to coffee and inability to hold his liquor).

And how would he feel privately? I think he was/is/will be very proud of her, and knowing how much her career means to her, also happy for her. I really don't see him feeling anything else.

Daniel did drink a lot of coffee in the original movie and in the first few episodes, but then he gave it up. I guess because it's not available off world. However, he is a lightweight- that was noted in both CotG and LC, and he was at Jack's house both times.

Thanks - Nice to know I'm not crazy.

I just haven't seen the sexism. Not like I've personally experienced in real life. Hell, she was his 2IC. Maybe it was accepting the inevitable but my observations of his character lean toward him quickly recognizing her value.

I think I should come clean on how I came to appreciate this series -- last summer I watched all 10 seasons back to back for the first time without reading any fan message boards, etc until I was done. So in other words, I formed my own opinions before venturing out. I'm glad to see that I'm not completely crazy!

And yeah, it's only 9:30 ish in the morning here. Still haven't had that coffee!

I never noted any sexism on Jack's part, either. She has to prove herself like any other new member of his team. And she's a scientist, so maybe he thinks she can't hold her own, but he seems to accept that she's up to the task pretty quickly. Which is not the same as saying he doesn't notice she's a woman, or doesn't pass up the chance to tease her. He'll push anybody's buttons when given the chance, and hers happened to be marked "hardcore feminist." Interestingly, he passes up the chance to do it in IGtbK when she gets a little miffed about Maybourne's wives. I don't know why.

Jack doesn't have to have worked around women to respect them, either. SOme times it's the men who have only worked with other men that are the least prejudiced of all, since they don't really have any opinion regarding how well women can or can't do the job, and haven't been exposed to other guys' bad attitudes since there's no women around for those guys to complain about. I think people learn most of their prejudices (of all kinds) at home.

I watched all the episodes for the first time back to back, also- without reading any fanfic or visiting threads either- except I kind of didn't finish S9 & S10. COnsequently, it's all kind of a blur. That's why I'm going to organize a rewatch as soon as we hear something firm on the next movie. I'm sure I've missed a lot!

[gater62]

Thanks for all the specifics on how individuals are promoted.

Back to my actual question, or maybe I'm trying to make a point here -- I'm not sure, it's too early and I haven't had my coffee...

There's been repeated comments in SG fandom regarding Jack having a sexist attitude toward Carter. Maybe Jack isn't directly in charge of her promotions but certainly he had a hand in putting forth recommendations, etc. Why would he do that if he didn't regard her in a high manner? (Professionally). I also tend to wonder how he privately felt about her promotions (emotionally).

I never interpreted anything Jack did as "sexist"; I think in the combat situation they were heading into, I would think anyone would be questioning the abilities of someone who was thrown onto his team without his say-so. He didn't know Carter and as far as Jack knew, she was just a scientist who never had any field experience. I think it's perfectly legitimate for him to not be sure of her abilities.

Daniel did drink a lot of coffee in the original movie and in the first few episodes, but then he gave it up. I guess because it's not available off world. However, he is a lightweight- that was noted in both CotG and LC, and he was at Jack's house both times.

I never noted any sexism on Jack's part, either. She has to prove herself like any other new member of his team. And she's a scientist, so maybe he thinks she can't hold her own, but he seems to accept that she's up to the task pretty quickly. Which is not the same as saying he doesn't notice she's a woman, or doesn't pass up the chance to tease her. He'll push anybody's buttons when given the chance, and hers happened to be marked "hardcore feminist." Interestingly, he passes up the chance to do it in IGtbK when she gets a little miffed about Maybourne's wives. I don't know why.

Jack doesn't have to have worked around women to respect them, either. SOme times it's the men who have only worked with other men that are the least prejudiced of all, since they don't really have any opinion regarding how well women can or can't do the job, and haven't been exposed to other guys' bad attitudes since there's no women around for those guys to complain about. I think people learn most of their prejudices (of all kinds) at home.

I watched all the episodes for the first time back to back, also- without reading any fanfic or visiting threads either- except I kind of didn't finish S9 & S10. COnsequently, it's all kind of a blur. That's why I'm going to organize a rewatch as soon as we hear something firm on the next movie. I'm sure I've missed a lot!

What she said!

[Buc252]

ha ha I think Jack Promoted Carter to Lt.Col. because of her trying to find a way to rescue him and or the fact that she had a hand in saving earth from anubis's fleet. or it could be jack just over using the power as a General.

The interesting thing about the "promotion" scene is what exactly Jack says. He doesn't say, "It's my pleasure to promote Samantha Carter..." He says, "It's my pleasure to announce the promotion of Samantha Carter..." Like he didn't promote her at all - he just gets to announce it.

Just a little snippet I don't know if anybody else noticed....

[SeNedra]

The interesting thing about the "promotion" scene is what exactly Jack says. He doesn't say, "It's my pleasure to promote Samantha Carter..." He says, "It's my pleasure to announce the promotion of Samantha Carter..." Like he didn't promote her at all - he just gets to announce it.

Just a little snippet I don't know if anybody else noticed....

I know. It sounds even prouder IMHO

I think that of course Jack wanted to promote her and it could be his idea at first but Sam had to deserve it what she definitely did. Not just for saving Jack but the whole Earth and so many times... And also when Jack was becoming a General, they wanted to make her the leader of SG1 and I doubt a Major could do it.

I like this thread I admit I didn't know about it till the discussion about names started, but I think I will be coming here

[Lt.Colonel John Sheppard]

the Girl in Grace do u think that was sam's hallucination version of what her daughter would be like or was it the gas bubble thingy messing with her head.

[Xflsgrl]

The interesting thing about the "promotion" scene is what exactly Jack says. He doesn't say, "It's my pleasure to promote Samantha Carter..." He says, "It's my pleasure to announce the promotion of Samantha Carter..." Like he didn't promote her at all - he just gets to announce it.

Just a little snippet I don't know if anybody else noticed....

Officer promotions boards are held annually to select officers to be promoted; however, due to special circumstances of SG1 Jack probably recommended her for promotion and the president signed off on it. The boards carry the authority of the president. A message is released listing all the officers selected for that pay grade after the selection boards meet. Commanding Officers do not promote but "announce" the promotion or advancement of the service member. The promotion ceremony you saw is actually accurate. Sorry.... Yeoman USN for nearly 10 yrs.

[gater62]

The interesting thing about the "promotion" scene is what exactly Jack says. He doesn't say, "It's my pleasure to promote Samantha Carter..." He says, "It's my pleasure to announce the promotion of Samantha Carter..." Like he didn't promote her at all - he just gets to announce it.

Just a little snippet I don't know if anybody else noticed....

Never mind...Xflsgirl answered it for me.

[jasminaGo]

the Girl in Grace do u think that was sam's hallucination version of what her daughter would be like or was it the gas bubble thingy messing with her head.

None of those actually. I've read a lot of fics where it's Sam and Jack's future daughter, but I just can't see it, it goes into to much 'fantasy' land for me, to be visited by the spirit of her unborn child. And I don't think the cloud was a sentient being that was capable of communicating with her or anything like that.

All the people Sam saw there were actually parts of her portrayed through the people closest to her. The soldier (Teal'c), the scientist (Daniel), the woman (Jack), the daughter (Jacob), and Grace... well, my best description for her would be Sam's inner child. All children have big dreams, to be astronauts, doctors..., most girls think about finding the man of their dreams, and live happily ever after... For me Grace is that part of Sam that still wants all of that, to get everything she ever dreamed of, meaning to achieve grace.

[VSS]

None of those actually. I've read a lot of fics where it's Sam and Jack's future daughter, but I just can't see it, it goes into to much 'fantasy' land for me, to be visited by the spirit of her unborn child. And I don't think the cloud was a sentient being that was capable of communicating with her or anything like that.

All the people Sam saw there were actually parts of her portrayed through the people closest to her. The soldier (Teal'c), the scientist (Daniel), the woman (Jack), the daughter (Jacob), and Grace... well, my best description for her would be Sam's inner child. All children have big dreams, to be astronauts, doctors..., most girls think about finding the man of their dreams, and live happily ever after... For me Grace is that part of Sam that still wants all of that, to get everything she ever dreamed of, meaning to achieve grace.

I agree with you about all of this. But it's the Catholic in me popping up to say that spiritual grace isn't something you achieve, it's something you are given. And I think that's what the whack on the head does for Sam. I have always thought of her to be the least introspective and possibly the least spiritual of the main 4 characters- it always bothered me that Daniel never came to visit her when he was ascended, but that's not the only reason why I think that, I guess. Anyway, her coming to the conclusions that she did aboard the ship were literally accidental, and she had no conscious control over it. Grace really was grace in the original sense of the word. I couldn't think of a better name for what happened to her on that ship- well aside from a subdural hematoma, that is.

[Buc252]

Officer promotions boards are held annually to select officers to be promoted; however, due to special circumstances of SG1 Jack probably recommended her for promotion and the president signed off on it. The boards carry the authority of the president. A message is released listing all the officers selected for that pay grade after the selection boards meet. Commanding Officers do not promote but "announce" the promotion or advancement of the service member. The promotion ceremony you saw is actually accurate. Sorry.... Yeoman USN for nearly 10 yrs.

I really don't think it was mostly Jack - I think it was mostly Hammond, since he'd been the base commander until that very day that Jack announced her promotion. He may have recommended it to Hammond, but I'm sure he's the one who would have actually gone up the ladder with it. The timing just isn't right for Jack, as a colonel, to have been the one to go to the president to recommend it.

Just MO, of course.

[Amaunet]

the Girl in Grace do u think that was sam's hallucination version of what her daughter would be like or was it the gas bubble thingy messing with her head.

I have always thought that it was the form the gas cloud had taken on. The uh...'hallunication of Daniel' mentions it, proposing that the the cloud was sentient and that the little girl was its way of communicating with Sam. I just have always believed that as true as we were never told otherwise.

[VSS]

I really don't think it was mostly Jack - I think it was mostly Hammond, since he'd been the base commander until that very day that Jack announced her promotion. He may have recommended it to Hammond, but I'm sure he's the one who would have actually gone up the ladder with it. The timing just isn't right for Jack, as a colonel, to have been the one to go to the president to recommend it.

Just MO, of course.

That's a really good point. One other question- I can't really remember when she was promoted to Major, but Hammond actually was the one who did the promoting, correct?

So, the only real favoritism I see is Gen. Hammond delaying her promotion just long enough so that Jack could be the one to do it.

I can't recall either of them ever getting so much as a raised eyebrow from George who knew perfectly well how they felt. I guess I see this as a little parting gift from him.

[JenniferJF]

I have always thought that it was the form the gas cloud had taken on. The uh...'hallunication of Daniel' mentions it, proposing that the the cloud was sentient and that the little girl was its way of communicating with Sam. I just have always believed that as true as we were never told otherwise.

IMHO, that was a goofy 'uber science' explanation from Daniel to match Teal'c's 'uber military' one about it being a trick to get information from her. More importantly, it was also a reference to a Star Trek episode in which they get trapped in a gas cloud and the gas cloud manifests itself as a child running around the ship. Thus DK, an avowed ST fan, is subtly and cleverly hanging-a-lantern on the fact he blatantly swiped the concept from a ST:TNG episode, making it impossible for all us ST fans out here who'd already started in with the "Hey! They did this on..." from really complaining. And I guess you could claim it's a tribute to ST:TNG too (imitation being the sincerest form of flattery).

I still think Grace is a manifestation of Sam's inner knowledge that she needs to integrate 'soldier/scientist/woman' as represented by the three SG-1 guys before she can truly achieve grace herself. Which we see her having done after S8 when she finally tells Jack why she's thankful to him (for being there) which she failed to do at the end of Grace which is just the beginning of her admitting she needs him in her life. And having found that balance after Threads, as I think we see onscreen, she's comfortable with all aspects of who she is and can be all three at once - soldier, scientist and woman.

To make a loooong story short.

/goes back into lurking

EDIT: I so do not!! I hate the games folder