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    There is a problem with that quote---the last line is mine about the dvd with Ben and Claudia but the rest aren't mine. I prefer the tease and build-up when done well.I also like a balanced relationship not a convient one.

    angie
    Ben Browder : blowin up things and kissin that's what we call Drahma !

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      A special invitation for Sam/Jack Shippers:



      Hope to see you there!!!!!

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        Originally posted by scapephile View Post
        Not to get off topic but Ben does get it. When he first was on the show and was asked about how little he was getting to do--he said it would be insulting to have his character come in and instantly be part of the team and be in the forefront.He also as a writer has never understood why relationships "ruin" characters or shows.Something TPTB don't get! Especially in 200 when they allude to comments about using phone calls etc. The "Trio" commentary still po's me!

        angie
        benbrowder.net
        Hmm
        I thought I was the only person left on the planet who's po'd by the trio commentary. Want to elaborate?

        The other thing, as the above posts have alluded to, is the lack of in-your-face romance with this ship. And that is the secret of its success. There is absolutely no way they could have kept this going as long as they have without screwing up if it weren't for the rules and regs. TV shows aren't the deepest medium around. They aren't any good at showing happy, stable relationships (with the exception of Firefly, but we know what happened to them!)

        Also, it's nice to hear what BB said about the ship, but I'm really quite tired of all this "Oh, they're definitely together" behind the scenes but no actual scenes that show it. It's getting pretty old. Same for alternate universes and made-up stuff like 200. They've done about as much tap dancing around the issue as they can and it's past ridiculous, IMHO.

        Oh, and totally unrelated- do we know what Jack's job actually is now? I don't recall anyone ever saying. To me, that's kind of important in terms of how they decide to handle the S/J ship in the next movie.
        Last edited by VSS; 16 November 2008, 12:56 AM.

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          What po'd me was the off hand way the one line of dialogue was dismissed. I think McKay is a 2D character at best and feel they waste alot of time on his storyline.I find the actor entertaining but think perhaps they writers/producers see too much of themselves in him so give his character preference.The whole commentary basically is an insult to fans and the actors. The implication is that the actors can't carry an ep set in a single small space without expensive effects added.Had they hired TV trained actors this would have posed a possible problem but they had 3 stage trained actors who they didn't even give a chance before spending money they didn't have for the ep.The other thing that gets me is that the idea of referencing O'Neill by using phone calls etc(which could serve to confirm the relationship as well) are used as jokes in "200". All this does annoy me but over the years I have accepted it as the way it is.It is also why for 4 years I waited for Farscape to screw up but they didn't.
          Ben Browder : blowin up things and kissin that's what we call Drahma !

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            Hi. I'm Jennifer, and I'm a Sam/Jack Shipper.

            OK. Seriously. Glad to find this Thread, as I've been looking for a spot on GW where we could have serious (as serious as possible about a TV show) discussions about Sam/Jack pretty much free from all the stuff mentioned in the introductory post. And hopefully this will be the place.

            So. To introduce myself for those who might not know me: I'd been a SG-1 fan for years, but probably more of an anti-shipper because IMHO TV ships tend to not only get messed up badly more often than not but to mess up the characters and the shows themselves beyond all resemblance to anything even approaching Real Life and Real People. Threads, however, convinced me that this bunch of TPTB can actually do it right. Since Threads, I'm probably one of the few shippers who've been more or less satisfied. Yeah, I'd like confirmation that Sam and Jack are together, but I don't need it for my own knowledge - I know what I believe - and would rather they NOT overtly address the thing than start messing with it (see, don't trust them completely). Other than that, unlike again a lot of other fans, I've enjoyed S9 and S10, loving the changes in Sam which I attribute to her newfound personal satifaction with her life (with Jack) outside of work, and have even enjoyed watching 'the new team' coalesce once they got over what I consider the shaky ground of early S9.

            Probably enough for now, except for those who haven't seen it, I have written an essay (so to speak) on my take of why Sam and Jack are together, which might be a good gift to bear as I join the conversation .

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              Hi. I'm APA. And like Jenn, I'm another shipper looking for a more discussion-oriented thread for the Sam/Jack ship. Back in the day it was the enlightening and interesting discussions about the show and the ship which drew me to the GW forum in the first place and I'm hoping to find some element of that here.

              I have no interesting backstory on my shipping other than to say I'd never done anything remotely like this before, which perhaps speaks to the quality of the show and the depth and complexity of the Sam/Jack relationship that, all these years later, people are still interested and concerned about the fate of these two characters.

              I backdoored myself into SG1 from SGA because, simply, SG1 reruns were on after the X-Files which was necessary evening viewing at our house for awhile. The first real ep of SG1 I watched was from S9, so my view of the ship was all retrospective as I went back and pieced it all together. I too believe Sam and Jack are now, unequivocably together and I suppose if I never got anything other than what we've seen, I could live with that. But, gosh darn, it'd be nice to have something tangible, there's no denying that.

              Anyway. Glad to be here and hopefully we'll have some good discussions. I wish I had something to offer, like Jenn, but you'll just have to take me empty-handed, I guess.
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                Originally posted by JenniferJF View Post


                Probably enough for now, except for those who haven't seen it, I have written an essay (so to speak) on my take of why Sam and Jack are together, which might be a good gift to bear as I join the conversation .
                I went and read this bit that you wrote, and I find it rather logical. I think it's a good argument in their favor, and that is coming from someone like me who doesn't quite think they are together yet. I was not familiar with many of the Atlantis references, so that helps I think.

                Another thing that sort of tugs at me to hint at S/J being together is that during Unending, Daniel starts telling Vala about how he is fianally ready to consider dating again in his my-fear-of-getting-hurt,-let-me-show-you-it scene. Someone pointed out to me that after so long, Daniel might be considering it again because he saw two of his best friends find happiness with each other after their own unhappy romantic pasts. Watching Sam and Jack overcome their difficulties of Jack's divorce, Sam's failed engagements, and their own military issues, only to come together might have encouraged Daniel to tentatively chart those waters again as well.

                I firmly believe that if S/J were together in canon right now, they would not keep it secret from at least Daniel and Teal'c. Cam and Vala perhaps, but no way would they hide it from Daniel and Teal'c. It kind of drives me nuts to read fanfic in which they keep hiding it because of the bonds present there.
                sigpic Heliosphere- multi-shipper, multi-thunker

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                  This is really where I belong. I'm all about analyzing the canon of Sam/Jack as far as Sam/Jack fandom goes.

                  Here's one of my takes on where they've been since Threads.

                  They made plans to be together that began to be executed with Sam being at Area 51. Either Jack's promotion or Sam's transfer back to the SGC put a hold on that. With the shuffle of positions, they would either have to get married or consider themselves single again for a time because of frat. reg.'s.

                  Because of the almost-kiss, then walk out of the room with Martouf in Ripple Effect, I'm going with single again. They would just go back to being uncommitted with plans to resume a relationship later. I know it sounds unromantic and impossible to go on hiatus without a commitment to fidelity by the rules of True Love we know from Princess Bride, but I think that was a viable solution for their commitments to the Air Force and consistent with Sam's description of "complicated" in the cut scene in Trio (I know, not canon).

                  I think it is also possible because (Princess Bride isn't real and) Sam/Jack both have a lot of experience being single. If you've ever known someone who is single well into their thirties, you may know why that is significant. Single people get set in their ways and it can be hard to imagine them morphing their life with another as thoroughly as those married younger do. I think it would take Sam/Jack a long time to become defined by their shared lives so going back to single lives after a short time with the reassurance they'll seek each other out again would be heartwrenching, but not as impossible as it would seem for a younger couple.

                  I've heard of Air Force-approved fraternization as a solution, but I don't think Sam/Jack would go with that. I think they kind of already had it in that Hammond knew they were more attached than they should be and they would be able to get it (if such a thing exists) just because they've already proven themselves to be able to make good decisions despite their attachment (Season 8 Jack being a possible learning period).

                  I think it's available to them (if it exists), but I don't think they would go with it because they know the day will come when someone's safety is put at risk. It isn't fair to their colleagues to have gone public with a relationship that would create doubts as to the reasons why risk is doled out the way it is. Even after Jack retires, I think the existence of the relationship would create these doubts in retrospect, but it would be better that their colleagues experience Sam and Jack's fair decisions before they know of the relationship. The relationship on hiatus is just the best they can do as far as respecting their relationship with their colleagues.


                  "I have darkness inside of me!" - SpongeBob Squarepants

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                    Originally posted by GateFanSamJack View Post
                    This is really where I belong. I'm all about analyzing the canon of Sam/Jack as far as Sam/Jack fandom goes.

                    Here's one of my takes on where they've been since Threads.

                    They made plans to be together that began to be executed with Sam being at Area 51. Either Jack's promotion or Sam's transfer back to the SGC put a hold on that. With the shuffle of positions, they would either have to get married or consider themselves single again for a time because of frat. reg.'s.

                    Because of the almost-kiss, then walk out of the room with Martouf in Ripple Effect, I'm going with single again. They would just go back to being uncommitted with plans to resume a relationship later. I know it sounds unromantic and impossible to go on hiatus without a commitment to fidelity by the rules of True Love we know from Princess Bride, but I think that was a viable solution for their commitments to the Air Force and consistent with Sam's description of "complicated" in the cut scene in Trio (I know, not canon).

                    I think it is also possible because (Princess Bride isn't real and) Sam/Jack both have a lot of experience being single. If you've ever known someone who is single well into their thirties, you may know why that is significant. Single people get set in their ways and it can be hard to imagine them morphing their life with another as thoroughly as those married younger do. I think it would take Sam/Jack a long time to become defined by their shared lives so going back to single lives after a short time with the reassurance they'll seek each other out again would be heartwrenching, but not as impossible as it would seem for a younger couple.

                    I've heard of Air Force-approved fraternization as a solution, but I don't think Sam/Jack would go with that. I think they kind of already had it in that Hammond knew they were more attached than they should be and they would be able to get it (if such a thing exists) just because they've already proven themselves to be able to make good decisions despite their attachment (Season 8 Jack being a possible learning period).

                    I think it's available to them (if it exists), but I don't think they would go with it because they know the day will come when someone's safety is put at risk. It isn't fair to their colleagues to have gone public with a relationship that would create doubts as to the reasons why risk is doled out the way it is. Even after Jack retires, I think the existence of the relationship would create these doubts in retrospect, but it would be better that their colleagues experience Sam and Jack's fair decisions before they know of the relationship. The relationship on hiatus is just the best they can do as far as respecting their relationship with their colleagues.

                    I doubt if we'll ever know for sure the details of exactly what happened post Threads/Moebius and the hows and whens...I just don't think TPTB are interested...nor do they need...to give us that level of specificity. And of course everyone is entitled, in the absence of that, to put the pieces together however best works for them. But IMHO, I don't think the evidence we've seen post S8 quite meshes with the scenario you've described.

                    First I'd point to Jenn's "essay" cited above for the many and varied clues that have been given in S9/10 and SGA S4...not to mention Continuum. I think there's ample evidence to suggest that not only did they get together after S8 but have remained together during that time.

                    TBH, I just don't see them separating at this point in their lives. Time is not their friend, first of all, and to put their life together on hold yet again, on the supposition that, after the current crisis, they'd pick it up, negates everything they both would have seemed to have learned from the events that led them to the resolution they achieved in Threads. They left it in the room once before and both suffered miserably for it. It's out of the room now and I just don't see either of them going back. And ironically, the idea that they're both used to the single life only supports the feasibility of their relationship in the present rather than detracts from it since both of them would already be used to their living alone and could continue to function quite well in the physical absence of the other. Living for those few weeks of leave or those long weekends only makes that time together more precious and valuable. And frankly, people don't have to be together geographically in order to be together spiritually and emotionally.

                    Will they still put duty before their personal lives? Of course. Which is why Sam came back to the SGC and why she accepted the command of Atlantis. And, imho, that's what makes it "complicated"...the mere fact that duty continues to separate them from each other in the geographic sense even though they are together in all the ways that matter otherwise. The woman who stated "It's complicated" in that deleted Trio scene isn't someone who is *not* in a relationship. The smug, cat-that-ate-the-canary smile that she hides from Keller after that exchange is anything but doubt-filled.

                    In fact, Sam's whole demeanor in S9/10 an SGA S4 is one of absolute contenteness and confidence. I don't see that type of attitude issuing from someone who still has any worries as to whether she and the man she loves will ever be able to be together. And while we're lacking in the second half of the Sam/Jack equation thru most of this time period, anytime there *is* a scene of the two of them together, the comfort level and intimacy that radiates from the two of them just doesn't ring true, imho, with two people who've backed away from one another because they have professional responsibilities.

                    With regards to those responsibilities, I'd defer to Jenn on that; she made a great post on another thread about the "rarified air" in the military hierarchy Sam and Jack now occupy; and she's not without some experience in these matters. IMHO, TPTB have kept the chain of command and reporting relationships vague and indeterminate enough to make anything possible and to keep it feasible even for those who might not understand the more complex arrangements possible in the higer echelons of command. So I really don't think there's anything about the rules and regs that stand in their way anymore. It was one thing when they actually worked together. Their current professional relationship is completely different now, no matter how you cut it. So, imho, not an issue at all.

                    But again....this is how I've viewed the evidence we've been presented. I am 100% absolutely and without doubt certain that they are together in the fullest sense of an adult relationship. And while their respective jobs may keep them geographically apart, that is the only separation between them, imho. And now that all the big baddies are disposed of and Sam is back from the Pegasus galaxy, perhaps even geography won't be such a barrier any more. After all, it's just a short transporter beam from the SGC to DC.
                    Last edited by AstraPerAspera; 01 December 2008, 06:52 PM.
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                      Originally posted by GateFanSamJack View Post
                      I think it's available to them (if it exists), but I don't think they would go with it because they know the day will come when someone's safety is put at risk. It isn't fair to their colleagues to have gone public with a relationship that would create doubts as to the reasons why risk is doled out the way it is. Even after Jack retires, I think the existence of the relationship would create these doubts in retrospect, but it would be better that their colleagues experience Sam and Jack's fair decisions before they know of the relationship. The relationship on hiatus is just the best they can do as far as respecting their relationship with their colleagues.
                      The problem is, the mere existence of their feeling 'feelings' has been putting their friends and colleagues at greater risk since way back when they started feeling them. Because whether or not your in a relationship with someone, the "mere" fact that you love them is going to effect your decisions. Which is why I tend to think, if it has been any other situation, the right thing for Sam and Jack to have done way back in S4 when they first became aware of having feelings would have been to get into positions where Jack was no longer her commanding officer.

                      And, in fact, they are currently in a position where Jack no longer makes those immediate life-and-death decisions, and his personal feelings for (and relationship with) Sam can no longer effect her in more than a general way. Which, while allowing personal happiness for them outside of work, is also, IMHO, the right thing to do. For exactly the reason you stated. Two people in love, regardless of relationship status, should not serve in the same military unit. It puts the mission and the others in the unit at risk. That's a big part of the reason frat rules exist in the first place, and why I think in separating professionally (a big part of the reason for which I believe was to be together personally), Sam and Jack did not only the right thing for themselves, but really even for the military and those with whom they serve.

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                        Originally posted by JenniferJF View Post
                        Since Threads, I'm probably one of the few shippers who've been more or less satisfied. Yeah, I'd like confirmation that Sam and Jack are together, but I don't need it for my own knowledge - I know what I believe - and would rather they NOT overtly address the thing than start messing with it (see, don't trust them completely). Other than that, unlike again a lot of other fans, I've enjoyed S9 and S10, loving the changes in Sam which I attribute to her newfound personal satifaction with her life (with Jack) outside of work, and have even enjoyed watching 'the new team' coalesce once they got over what I consider the shaky ground of early S9.
                        I am one of those few shippers who also belive that Jack and Sam are together (so married, if you will) I don't need to see it on screen to know that they are together, we've gotten hints about their oh so togetherness in seasons nine and ten, as Jenn stated.

                        I think I just pretty much agree with Jenn's whole statement above! I loved season nine and ten, even though it was Jackless, it was still way worth watching (especially for hints of ship).

                        Would I like to see confirmation? Sure I would. Would I hate TPTB forever if they didn't give us confirmation? Not at all. I love them because they gave me my most favorite show, and a reason, even after that show ends to come on the wonderful GW and discuss one of the most moving and romantic romances on television. Anywho.

                        (Oh, and I'm Brooke...and I like this place...it's nice to discuss again!)

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                          Originally posted by AstraPerAspera View Post
                          I too believe Sam and Jack are now, unequivocably together and I suppose if I never got anything other than what we've seen, I could live with that. But, gosh darn, it'd be nice to have something tangible, there's no denying that.
                          i believe they're together too. and regarding what is bolded: i could live with it, but without big joy. it's just not enough to seriously squee over, especially when other ships have been *show* in real time what couplehood looks like on them.

                          i feel good about the 3rd movie. i hope it lives up to 'my' expectations. i want it 100 percent said and show that they're together.
                          sally

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                            Been away for 5 days with no net access. And am sitting in a cafe with limited battery power now! ugh! Will be home Thursday. But I absolutely love the recent conversations on the subject and while I have nothing significant to add, I do believe that they are together in some way, not married, but after the disaster their 'repression' of their feelings pre Threads caused, I think they wouldn't put their lives on hold again like that. I don't think they can be too open about a relationship, but I think their closest friends do know.

                            I've got SO much catching up to do and it'll probably take me a week!
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                              Originally posted by leiasky View Post
                              Been away for 5 days with no net access. And am sitting in a cafe with limited battery power now! ugh! Will be home Thursday. But I absolutely love the recent conversations on the subject and while I have nothing significant to add, I do believe that they are together in some way, not married, but after the disaster their 'repression' of their feelings pre Threads caused, I think they wouldn't put their lives on hold again like that. I don't think they can be too open about a relationship, but I think their closest friends do know.

                              I've got SO much catching up to do and it'll probably take me a week!
                              The question is: can they be together now if they haven't married in the S8/9 hiatus? How does the chain of command go? I've always thought Landry (SGC commander) and the Atlantis commander answer to Jack and IOA; also the commanders of the ships (like Caldwell in "The Return")-speculation for Sam's new position...

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                                Originally posted by silly sally View Post
                                The question is: can they be together now if they haven't married in the S8/9 hiatus? How does the chain of command go? I've always thought Landry (SGC commander) and the Atlantis commander answer to Jack and IOA; also the commanders of the ships (like Caldwell in "The Return")-speculation for Sam's new position...
                                I think the SGC reports to Jack and Homeworld Security (but Landry is between Sam and Jack in the chain of command. Jack is out of the day to day operation of the SGC) and Atlantis reports to the IOA with Jack and HWS providing only recommendations and the like.

                                So yes, I think they can be together.
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