Sam Carter/Daniel Jackson Ship/Discussion/Appreciation

[JessM]

I had this thought...

Somewhere I was reading about why ships go through such long periods of UST and have no RST until the end of the show, and I was thinking that most s/d fanfics show the UST up to getting together and end there, without the exploration of the continuing relationship. Now, I know that when I read a story about an established relationship that's s/d, I always wonder how they got together... I guess maybe it's because they aren't paired on the show that I wonder just how it happened, but I guess I wonder if that curiousity as to how the relationship developed prevents or maybe just hinders stories about the continued relationship...

That's an interesting thought. I guess for one thing it depends on how long the fics are? I know some of them really drag out the UST and then by the end if they get together, maybe the writer just feels like they've accomplished a hurdle and they're not really interested in continuing it...they've already spent so much time on the UST or something. I've wondered myself how they get together, too.

That's one of my thoughts, anyway...

[JessM]

That was really all I had for Past and Present. I guess we can move on to the very lovely shippy episode Jolinar's Memories.

There's some nice shared looks between Daniel and Sam at the briefing, and then of course, the beautiful scene where Daniel comforts Sam after she remembers Jolinar's torture. I love the way he looks at her, so full of care and concern... It is beautiful.

Ah, I loved that, too. I think it's the next shippiest to Singularity. You can tell how concerned he is for her, how he just sits down next to her and is so willing to give comfort. That was a beautiful scene.

[JessM]

So... Once more, I will bring up our s/d thread story...

Okay... Do we want to start with the pic fic AU from Spirits?

Or... Do we want to do the story a season, starting with perhaps season 1?

Or any other suggestions?

I guess I can't really help since I don't mind either way. Hmm... Spirits pic maybe first, and then start the story-a-season?

I'm not helping much, am I?

[fishyone]

That's an interesting thought. I guess for one thing it depends on how long the fics are? I know some of them really drag out the UST and then by the end if they get together, maybe the writer just feels like they've accomplished a hurdle and they're not really interested in continuing it...they've already spent so much time on the UST or something. I've wondered myself how they get together, too.

That's one of my thoughts, anyway...

I suppose that could be the case. I find, with my longer fics, I don't like the idea of spending so much time developing the relationship just to let it go when the romantic pair gets together. I was thinking about it a while back, and I think I only have a few fics that I don't have a planned sequel to, original or fanfic...

I like knowing how people got together... But isn't "happily ever after" a big cop-out?

[fishyone]

I guess I can't really help since I don't mind either way. Hmm... Spirits pic maybe first, and then start the story-a-season?

I'm not helping much, am I?

Well, I'm leaving it open to discussion, but I could be a dictactor and decide for everyone.

If no one can decide or has a preference, I think we may as well start with the pic fic because we have a starting ground, but... it's still open for discussion.

[fishyone]

*hugs to Jess* Chapter 4 of BtC is online.

I was thinking we should have a poll... Decide the most shippy episodes and compile a list...

I think most people would agree that Singularity is the most s/d shippy episode, but what does everyone think? Singularity or something else?

[JessM]

I suppose that could be the case. I find, with my longer fics, I don't like the idea of spending so much time developing the relationship just to let it go when the romantic pair gets together. I was thinking about it a while back, and I think I only have a few fics that I don't have a planned sequel to, original or fanfic...

I like knowing how people got together... But isn't "happily ever after" a big cop-out?

I agree and I think most of my fics are that way, too. I spent a lot of time in Spilled Coffee building up the relationship and I guess it does sort of end on a "happily ever after" note. But I do have a sequel planned for it. I guess it does seem like a copout - though I guess a lot of people yearn for it because we don't get to see it in the show... or if there's a lot of conflict between them throughout the story, they want to see it resolved in the end. But yeah, I guess it can seem like a copout...

[JessM]

*hugs to Jess* Chapter 4 of BtC is online.

I was thinking we should have a poll... Decide the most shippy episodes and compile a list...

I think most people would agree that Singularity is the most s/d shippy episode, but what does everyone think? Singularity or something else?

*hugs back* Always happy to do it.

I think a poll would be a good idea to start things off. I guess we should decide the most shippy by the amount of time in the ep that's devoted to scenes that seem quite shippy? Or something like that...

Off the top of my head, the most s/d shippy eps, IMHO, are Singularity, Holiday, Jolinar's Memories, FIAD, Meridian, Fallen (because of the "was there anything between us" line...though not sure if that's enough) ... and that's about all I can think of right now. For most shippy I'd say Singularity, but what do other people think?

[fishyone]

I agree and I think most of my fics are that way, too. I spent a lot of time in Spilled Coffee building up the relationship and I guess it does sort of end on a "happily ever after" note. But I do have a sequel planned for it. I guess it does seem like a copout - though I guess a lot of people yearn for it because we don't get to see it in the show... or if there's a lot of conflict between them throughout the story, they want to see it resolved in the end. But yeah, I guess it can seem like a copout...

Oh, Jess. I don't mean to make you think any of your fics had a bad or cop-out ending. I would not count Spilled Coffee as a story that just stops at "happy ever after." I had in mind more the stories that stop just as soon as the couple gets together... Those are the ones that are kind of cop-outs, where no trials are faced, there's no real life and continued challenges involved in the relationship... It's really the ones where a kiss ends the story... some times it seems like they don't even discuss what their relationship means... They just kiss and the assumption is marriage, and that's it... I don't know... I can't explain it well...

Eek, I feel terrible now... I shouldn't have said it the way I did... Probably shouldn't have said it at all...

[fishyone]

Ah, I loved that, too. I think it's the next shippiest to Singularity. You can tell how concerned he is for her, how he just sits down next to her and is so willing to give comfort. That was a beautiful scene.

I've always really liked Jolinar's Memories... I love that moment between Sam and Daniel (as well as the humor like "To Hell with us"), and I also think it's very telling that when Sam is gone in Devil You Know, Daniel takes care of Jacob.

Hmm... I brought up Devil You Know... I guess I should continue with it... I know I have trouble sometimes keeping the two parters two parts separate... Um... I don't remember too much s/d interaction in DYK...

[JessM]

Oh, Jess. I don't mean to make you think any of your fics had a bad or cop-out ending. I would not count Spilled Coffee as a story that just stops at "happy ever after." I had in mind more the stories that stop just as soon as the couple gets together... Those are the ones that are kind of cop-outs, where no trials are faced, there's no real life and continued challenges involved in the relationship... It's really the ones where a kiss ends the story... some times it seems like they don't even discuss what their relationship means... They just kiss and the assumption is marriage, and that's it... I don't know... I can't explain it well...

Eek, I feel terrible now... I shouldn't have said it the way I did... Probably shouldn't have said it at all...

Oh, no, please, don't feel that way. I think it was more that I misunderstood what you said. I think I got the wrong idea about the "happily ever after" thing. I wasn't feeling too well last night and wasn't thinking very clearly, so that probably contributed to it also. I know exactly what you mean now and I agree - it's pretty unsatisfying when they stop right after the couple gets together and leaves you hanging with "what happens next? Will they get married and have kids or not? What else is in store for them?"

So, yep, I do understand what you mean. I guess I didn't at first. I didn't think you were insulting me about Spilled Coffee. I took the meaning wrong and then later realized that maybe the story could have fallen under it.. but I realize that it doesn't. So no problem. Sorry I made you feel terrible...

Here is something for you to assure no hard feelings...

[JessM]

I've always really liked Jolinar's Memories... I love that moment between Sam and Daniel (as well as the humor like "To Hell with us"), and I also think it's very telling that when Sam is gone in Devil You Know, Daniel takes care of Jacob.

Hmm... I brought up Devil You Know... I guess I should continue with it... I know I have trouble sometimes keeping the two parters two parts separate... Um... I don't remember too much s/d interaction in DYK...

Me too. And that's interesting about how Daniel takes care of Jacob... like a real son-in-law. Lol...but you're right, it is quite telling.

I think Daniel gives Sam a look of concern when she gets back from being questioned by Apophis... I seem to remember something like that. But that's about it.

I think Foothold is next, right? I didn't really see anything in that, except for when the aliens disguised as Daniel and Jack went to talk to Sam to try to get her back to the SGC. The Daniel alien kept trying to gently persuade her, as Daniel himself would do (be gentle that is). When Sam found out they were aliens when they were on the plane with Maybourne, she almost looked like she didn't want to believe Daniel was an alien, at least at first. And the part where Maybourne tried to strangle Daniel... he kind of glances over at Sam and sort of pleads her to get Maybourne to stop... like the alien knows that she would because she cares for Daniel. And she does tell Maybourne to let him go.

I did think there was a bit of symbolism there when Sam used that device to disguise herself as Daniel. Okay, maybe not, but I thought it was pretty neat.

[fishyone]

Oh, no, please, don't feel that way. I think it was more that I misunderstood what you said. I think I got the wrong idea about the "happily ever after" thing. I wasn't feeling too well last night and wasn't thinking very clearly, so that probably contributed to it also. I know exactly what you mean now and I agree - it's pretty unsatisfying when they stop right after the couple gets together and leaves you hanging with "what happens next? Will they get married and have kids or not? What else is in store for them?"

So, yep, I do understand what you mean. I guess I didn't at first. I didn't think you were insulting me about Spilled Coffee. I took the meaning wrong and then later realized that maybe the story could have fallen under it.. but I realize that it doesn't. So no problem. Sorry I made you feel terrible...

Here is something for you to assure no hard feelings...

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y60...el/fiad093.jpg

I feel much better now... I'm glad we got it sorted out... I would hate to think I hurt anyone by my remarks, especially not as good a friend as you have been, Jess.

I didn't explain it well enough, and I don't mean to say that the "kiss, okay, end story" thing is true of most s/d fic... Most do deal with at least some of the repercussions... s/d being on the same team, etc... I was generalizing about all stories, no doubt due to my nephew's presence and watching a few children's movies lately... Happily Ever After, the end... unsatisifying to an adult like me but fine for him, and due also to some reanalyzing of romantic comedies and how some of them go through all the trouble of getting the couple together and then just...end. In fact, one of my favorites falls under that category, and I was wondering why I liked it so much when I was so dissatisfied with the ending...

*hugs Jess back* (I don't have my pb open for a pic)

Spilled Coffee has a good mix of elements, the buildup to romance, the romance, a conclusion to it, but also a bit after that where they learn to live and work together. It's great... to use a line from Mary Poppins, Practically Perfect in Every Way.

[fishyone]

Me too. And that's interesting about how Daniel takes care of Jacob... like a real son-in-law. Lol...but you're right, it is quite telling.

I think Daniel gives Sam a look of concern when she gets back from being questioned by Apophis... I seem to remember something like that. But that's about it.

I think Foothold is next, right? I didn't really see anything in that, except for when the aliens disguised as Daniel and Jack went to talk to Sam to try to get her back to the SGC. The Daniel alien kept trying to gently persuade her, as Daniel himself would do (be gentle that is). When Sam found out they were aliens when they were on the plane with Maybourne, she almost looked like she didn't want to believe Daniel was an alien, at least at first. And the part where Maybourne tried to strangle Daniel... he kind of glances over at Sam and sort of pleads her to get Maybourne to stop... like the alien knows that she would because she cares for Daniel. And she does tell Maybourne to let him go.

I did think there was a bit of symbolism there when Sam used that device to disguise herself as Daniel. Okay, maybe not, but I thought it was pretty neat.

Yes... I am afraid that Daniel's actions to take care of Jacob have given me another fic idea... Eek...

I think I remember that look, too... I wasn't sure if there was or if I just wanted there to be one because of my shippy persausion...

I have always found it interesting in Foothold that the switching back and forth was between Daniel and Sam... And I know I felt that when she looked at Daniel, she didn't want him to be an alien, she looked almost like she was pleading with him to be Daniel, not an alien. I think it's interesting that she didn't try and shoot Daniel's impersonator... I know that the aliens had devices that enabled them to read the person's thoughts, but it is interesting that they could mimic the person that they were copying so well... The Daniel alien could have been Daniel...

Ooh, I just had another fic idea... about the aliens reading something into a certain couple's thoughts that no one else knows...

I'm not even going to start Pretense. I might get another fic idea.

[JessM]

I feel much better now... I'm glad we got it sorted out... I would hate to think I hurt anyone by my remarks, especially not as good a friend as you have been, Jess.

I didn't explain it well enough, and I don't mean to say that the "kiss, okay, end story" thing is true of most s/d fic... Most do deal with at least some of the repercussions... s/d being on the same team, etc... I was generalizing about all stories, no doubt due to my nephew's presence and watching a few children's movies lately... Happily Ever After, the end... unsatisifying to an adult like me but fine for him, and due also to some reanalyzing of romantic comedies and how some of them go through all the trouble of getting the couple together and then just...end. In fact, one of my favorites falls under that category, and I was wondering why I liked it so much when I was so dissatisfied with the ending...

*hugs Jess back* (I don't have my pb open for a pic)

Spilled Coffee has a good mix of elements, the buildup to romance, the romance, a conclusion to it, but also a bit after that where they learn to live and work together. It's great... to use a line from Mary Poppins, Practically Perfect in Every Way.

Yep, not to worry. I know what you mean, and I agree that the whole Happily Ever After in children's movies can seem unsatisfying as an adult. *blushes* Thanks for the kind words. I'm glad you find it that way. A few people at ff.net said they were disappointed, that they wanted to see them go through the Stargate and I just end it before they even get recruited for the program. At first I wasn't sure how I was going to end it. I was just going to do it after Sam and Daniel gave their presentation, with Daniel telling her that they'll just keep trying. Though Sam is pregnant at that point and I wanted to do a little epilogue featuring kids. Then the idea about the Stargate came.

Anyway, there will be a sequel... even though I'm kind of confused about some of the details, I think I know how I want it to go. I'm concentrating on another sequel right now though.