Gateworld Virtual Fleet 4.0 - Discussion thread

[Amann]

How much in actual money?

Probably would be worth a fortune on Earth, just because of the tech. But it is an Alesian built ship, so it is in Alesian credits. Conversion wise for money, it is probably roughly the British pound.

And cruise speed?

Whatever it's fleet speed is going, although as we all know, cruise speed varies with fleets in space. They may have a need to go maximum speed or they may need to coast into a system cautiously.

Same thing ?

Yeah.....was kinda copying off PJ's thing and I just left it in.

Except that everything else is fine as long as it is the only ship they have in MW.

it is, its the only ship of theirs in that dimension. They were testing the engines out and basically testing all the systems for their High Councilor. They hit a Quantum Singularity and were thrown into this dimension. I think the fleet should find the ship adrift in space, with the crew knocked out temporarily. So the crew is not standard. It is comprised of High Councilor Amann, Commander of the Legions General Ayen, Legate Renate, and a few nameless redshirt Legionnaires. Expendable.

And just out of curiosity, do your Alesians have some weaknesses? I think a lot of people would like to steal that ship

Lack of numbers, it can be fairly overwhelmed with capital ships despite the tech gap. Although I think one capital ship would die in a fight.

[thekillman]

The main advantge with Gunships/Frigates is that in groups they have the ability to overwelm much larger ships and deilver more bang for your buck

we have lots of ships that can deliver a much bigger bang. as soon as ring stations are compromised and beaming is jammed, we are frakked however since we can't escape a planet. the gunship i'm talking about would fill a massive gap, a frigate is just there to please the people who want tons of ships.

and they are quicker to build and give you numbers so you can spread your fleet a little thinner in areas but still keep the same firepower, but thats the reason that I really like them

the gunship i talk about would be relatively cheap and easy and quick to build.

also our hyperdrive speeds and BC fleet gives us a sufficient coverage. we're not at war. we don't HAVE to protect the galaxy, it's not ours.

Gunships (properly) would be somewhat like the Raptors in BSG. Maybe a bit bigger.

somewhat bigger, yes, max should 20 meters long.

would simply get picked off by the main weapon on capitol ships.

that's like an Iowa shooting down F-16's with it's main guns.

'killman; okay, 2 years. But they still seem staggered at about 6-month intervals. At least for the Daedalus, Odyssey, and Korolev. It did get a bit longer for the Apollo, Sun Tzu, and George Hammond

no, it was still a year. was any BC ever properly finished before launch? the Odyssey was launched months before completion, the Apollo i believe was finished a month early, the Kolorev was rushed i believe, and the Phoenix in the alterate timeline was rushed even more. the Hammond clearly wasn't ready, or it would've faced the superhive in EATG.

What ships are there left to vote in? Because i would like to make some ship based contribution and get it judged, not have a story ship or something like that. I have a number of back catalogue designs that i could rework to this fleet, Storm and Cartier come to mind but some others too.

if you have a bright idea, don't hesitate.

It'll have to go to a vote, but I'm in favour of retaining the fundamental F302 airframe and making changes as required per mission requirement. The FA/18 is a good example of how an existing airframe can be improved.

the design is too old, i think a completely new frame is better.

[bradly08]

Valid points, Blacky. The 302 basic needs a lot of work, but like an ugly duckling, a swan may evolve in the short time here

The 302 doesnt need alot of work. it needs to be shifted to the scrapyard. What we need as to use human knowledge on air-warfare and mix it in with alien tech. If we can build a plane that can go mach 3.2 without alien tech then our new fighters would be unbelievably fast and agile. Im space the airframe doesnt really make a difference but in the atmoshpere it's key. The 302's airframe is a rip off of the death gliders, and those ships were designed to scare your oppenent not kill them.

A new fighter basicly is going to be similar to modern day fighters but incredibly powerfull. Simply designing a new fighter based off the 302 is going to be a very bad move imo, as your are simply dressing over the problems adn not adressing the head on.

[colbmista]

why dont you guys just use the "stealth" fighter from stealth imo i think that things ugly as hell and i rather like the 302 design

[bradly08]

why dont you guys just use the "stealth" fighter from stealth imo i think that things ugly as hell and i rather like the 302 design

Well I having been putting som thought into how a new fighter would look like and the movie Stealth is plaingh a small part. In the movie they use forward swept wings and lower speeds and the fold up into the airframe at highter speads. This feature would be very usefull at not only high speeds in the atmoshpere but in space were you are minimising your profile.

[Lt. Col. Mcoy]

we have lots of ships that can deliver a much bigger bang. as soon as ring stations are compromised and beaming is jammed, we are frakked however since we can't escape a planet. the gunship i'm talking about would fill a massive gap, a frigate is just there to please the people who want tons of ships.

Actually, I can think of one honest reason for a frigate. Countries may want a light, cheap ship to escort their civilian craft. Something a bit cheaper than a 304.

You are right that we don't really need an escort for the 304's, though.

the design is too old, i think a completely new frame is better.

I must agree, I'm afraid. While I do find the 302's aesthetically pleasing, functionally they're very poorly designed. Something that keeps the swept-wing shape would be nice, though. Just for nostalgia.

[Crazy Tom]

I don't like all this geography stuff. Name them after people, name them after cities, name them from mythology. But oceans or rivers? It just doesn't have the right ring.

I don't know, there's someting... clean, about using geographic names.

i think nobody will consider it, considering the impact of the Replicators. i'm sorry, but i dont want a Honorverse or whatever it was called.

Killman, your passive self importance never ceases to amuse me. While the fleets are a by and large democratic affair, the only debate on tactics and tech is based on practical considerations. The only part where everyone gets together is when we do the human fleet, aside fom that, everyone does thir own thing. So, if I for example, cruch a few numbers, and come to the conclusion that a load of smaller nukes is preferential to a few biger ones, you can't stop me from equiping my ships with them unless I'm actualy in violation of canon. That by the way, is also part of what makes the fleet so democratic, ratehr than consentualist.

As to fighters, I believe both sides have some points, I think the best tradeoff between the fact that fighters are curerntly not suited for large scale combat, and hte need to stil maintain a fighter force for flexibility's sake, would be UCAVs. The USAF is really moving towards UCAVs in the future, their less epensive than F-302, more menuvrable, smaller, etc. The same points apply in space. And while their not suited for etended range missions of their own, I can see them making for a good defensive screen, using their superior mneuvrability to carry various pieces of equipment like interceptors and Ashen style magnets to deflect and itnercet incoming fire.

I am however, firmly oposed to any sort of "dogfights in space" notion od what these fighters can do. Their both too small to mount signiticant anti-ship capability, and too wealy defended to stand up to a capital ship's point defense systems.

I agree, CON should be part of the standard additions tech list.

I'm out of time here, I'dd leve you with the fact that polymiorhic wings are ratehr useless when you have atmospheric shields that reduce friction to nearly zero.

[Amann]

So what does everyone think of the Alesian Talon class gunship

[Lt. Col. Mcoy]

Who made the image?

[fugiman]

In case you guys missed it here is my fighter design so let me know what you think

Spoiler:

Name: Lockheed Martin’s F-100 ‘Merlin’ Space Fighter
Type: Space Fighter
Role: Fighter Support, Escort Missions, and Colony Defense
Classification: F-100
Technology Base: Hybrid of Earth reversed engineered technology and Tech Con components

Builders: Lockheed Martin Global Ship Yards

Colorado Springs, Colorado
-Produces 8 fighters every week

San Diego California
-Produces 10 fighters every week

Sydney, Australia
-Produces 6 fighters every week

Manchester, UK
-Produces 8 fighters every week

Hong Cong, China
-Produces 12 fighters every week

Tokyo, Japan
-Produces 8 fighters every week

Vancouver, Canada
-Produces 5 fighters every week

St. Petersburg, Russia
-Produces 10 fighters every week

Paris, France
-Produces 6 fighters every week

Berlin, Germany
-Produces 7 fighters every week

Rio, Brazil
-Produces 4 fighters a week


Delhi, India
-Produces 8 fighters a week


When Lockheed Martin showed off its finished fighter to the world many countries wanted their own small fleet of the fighters to protect both earth and as a cost effective way to defend their colonies without spending on costly planetary defenses and capitol ships but at the same time they also wanted to produce their own fighters in country to make sure that they could control the flow of fighters coming out of the factories, to make additions to their fighters in country if needed, and to help boost their local economies. Lockheed Martin seeing a chance to drastically increase their global influence as well as increasing their income flow agreed to make new factories around the globe if the host country gave a certain percentage of the cost of setting up the factory as well as having huge tax cuts on the factory and the items produced. Currently nine countries have agreed to host a factory in country with more being planned.

At current production levels 92 F-100’s can be made in a week if pushed

Operators: UNEC Space Forces and Colonial Defense Forces
Baseline cost: approx. $91 Million
Built: Started mass production in 2018
Planned: 40,000
Completed: 20,354


- Propulsion:
~2x Small Tech Con Ion Drives 14 million

Deciding not to go with an Earth based design Lockheed Martin decided that it was better and overall cheaper to outsource the part to a company that knew what it was doing. After some negotiations Lockheed Martin was able to replicate the part under the Tech Con name as well as paying out a certain percentage of each unit made on earth and since has been supplying the part to earth fighters.

-Maximum speed
~In Atmosphere: 1250 Meters per second

~In Vacuum: 1750 Meters per Second

- Complement:
~ Standard crew approx. 2
~ Maximum complement approx. 4 (but you have to squeeze)

- Power Generation:
~1 x Mk. I Naquadah generator 5 million

- Armor:
~Trinium-Carbon Overlay 1.6 million

To reduce Cost Lockheed Martin decided to only put Trinium with a carbon mix over critical areas of the fighter and if supplies ran low on Trinium then they could remove the overlay to continue production of the fighter with just earth materials. The mix is a super strong material that is composed of a 60% Carbon and 40% Trinium that makes super hard and dense material to cover the vital areas of the fighter.

- Main Hull:
~ Titanium-Nickel-Aluminum alloy 2.2 million

To steam line the hull Lockheed Martin decided to use earth elements in fear that the galactic market would be shut down or colonies could not keep up with demands. Also Lockheed Martin knew that most of the off planet resources would be going to bigger ships and not fighters. So they looked at current materials on Earth that could be used in place, they decided to go with a Titanium, Nickel and Aluminum alloy as the hull of the ship as away to drastically lower costs of the fighter but still give the fighter a hull that is both strong and durable.


-Sensor systems
~LM-4-multi visual array 2 million

The LM-4 is the fourth generation of sensor system that Lockheed Martin made when coming up with the F-100. The first few systems didn’t integrate alien and earth technologies very well and many glitches happened much like the F-301 however when the fourth system was made the pilots all agreed it was a perfect blend and gave them a superior edge in dog fights to most if not all known alien threats.

-Targeting systems
~Tech Con Targeting Computer 8 million

During Lockheed Martin’s trip to Hebridan they noticed the targeting computers set up by Tech Con during the Loop of Kan Grat and when the race was done the two parties agreed that earth would get the parts and soon would be a licensed dealer of the parts in the name of tech con. So earth’s fighters were given an alien technology because of how accurate the system is as well as allowing Lockheed Martin to replicate a piece of alien technology on earth.

-Navigation system:
~LM-3 Star Map 1.2 million

Lockheed Martin made their own navigation system to be used onboard the Merlin that uses the neural interface to allow easy access of where the fighter was based off of star coordinates around them. Currently the system has the Milky Way and Pegasus Galaxy in its records to allow ease of access for the fighter to go from one galaxy to another.


- Armament:
~2x LM 30mm Rail Guns 3.5 million
~6x Hard Points
~1x Internal Weapon Bays

For the weapon the Lockheed Martin team looked at their previous fighter the F-22 and saw how weapons aboard it could be introduced to the F-100. So they decided to keep an internal weapon bay that can hold numerous different missiles, they added 2 Lockheed Martin 30mm rails guns for dog fights and then added on 6 hard points to allow a variety of weapons to be added the F-100 to allow it to have what it needs for certain missions.


- Shielding:
~LM-1 Shield Generator 10 million

The LM-1 shield generator is the first generation shield generator from Lockheed Martin that was developed around designs from a puddle jumper’s shields. The shield design was worked on by Doctor McKay however even with his help they weren’t able to full replicate the strength of the puddle jumper’s shields but were able to get 80% the same strength level. The shields currently can fend off most anti-fighter weapons for a short time before burning out and larger caliber weapons such as main plasma weapons and rail guns can easily cut through the shields.

- Other technology:

~Holographic Projector 3 million

After Lockheed Martin developed the Merlin using mostly earth materials for protection they knew the fighter would be slightly weaker so they designed a holographic projector that allowed each fighter to project another two fighters to make it visually look like there were three fighters going in at once. This increased the fear factor of this ship and added protection to the fighter.

~Neural Interface 10 million

After looking at possible ways to make the fighter more efficient for pilots they were introduced to several different forms of neural interface technology from alien cultures and after three years of studying they were able to make a system for their fighter that allowed pilots to both use controls and be hooked up with a neural interface system.

~Asgard Emergency Beaming Node 15 million

After looking over countless mission reports from the Stargate program and 302 pilots Lockheed Martin’s team of engineers were able to add an Asgard Beaming node that allowed the pilot to be beamed back to the nearest ship or nearest habitable area in case of the fighter being destroyed. This allowed pilots a chance to escape however the beaming node is not the same one used on capitol ships as it only beams out and doesn’t beam back in. As well the beaming node to make it cheaper can only beam out a few times before being burned out but seeing as it is a safety feature most pilots don’t care as they are just glad to have it.

~LM-3 Culling Beam 15 million

Lockheed Martin saw that earth had not dependable drop ships so with help from Doctor McKay they were able to reverse engineer a Wraith culling beam that was place on the bottom of the fighter as to allow the Merlin to first clear the area with their fire power and then allow soldiers to be dropped in hostile areas that were clear instead of worrying about beaming down soldiers from space and being ambushed. Also the Culling beams can be used to pick up enemy troops or other defenses and just be taken out of the area.

~Lock on Point $500,000

Many commanders aboard capitol ships wanted fighter support for missions however at the time many ship designs were going away from having fighters on board as they feared fighters would just turn into cannon fodder. So the guys at Lockheed Martin saw away to allow both to have their cake and eat it too. So they designed a lock on point on their fighters. The Lock on Point is much like a hard point but this extends from the interior of the fighter and allows it to lock onto different ships in space and then the pilots can get beamed into the ship or back into the fighter depending on when they are needed.

[bradly08]

On thing im going to say to all those making fighter designs is that all of you designs cost far too little. A F-22 costs 159.9 million each so ours should be costing more than that.

[Davidtourniquet]

Crazy tom, what do you mean by CON?

[fugiman]

On thing im going to say to all those making fighter designs is that all of you designs cost far too little. A F-22 costs 159.9 million each so ours should be costing more than that.

I know but my fighter is made by the same people who make the f22 and with the help from governments making the factories the cost is drastically reduced but thats just my design and originally when my fighter was unveiled it cost more but after making it for seven years the fighter's cost came way down

[Lt. Col. Mcoy]

In case you guys missed it here is my fighter design so let me know what you think

Name: Lockheed Martin’s F-100 ‘Merlin’ Space Fighter

Merlin, huh? I like it.

Type: Space Fighter
Role: Fighter Support, Escort Missions, and Colony Defense
Classification: F-100

I should have mentioned this before, but technically it should be the FS-100 (S for space-capable).

When Lockheed Martin showed off its finished fighter to the world many countries wanted their own small fleet of the fighters to protect both earth and as a cost effective way to defend their colonies without spending on costly planetary defenses and capitol ships but at the same time they also wanted to produce their own fighters in country to make sure that they could control the flow of fighters coming out of the factories, to make additions to their fighters in country if needed, and to help boost their local economies. Lockheed Martin seeing a chance to drastically increase their global influence as well as increasing their income flow agreed to make new factories around the globe if the host country gave a certain percentage of the cost of setting up the factory as well as having huge tax cuts on the factory and the items produced. Currently nine countries have agreed to host a factory in country with more being planned.

Good idea.

At current production levels 92 F-100’s can be made in a week if pushed

Hmm. I don't know about that. Seems like an awful lot, and remember, we have to have pilots too. At that rate, we'd have a lot of empty 100's sitting on the tarmac.

Maybe tone it down a bit.

Operators: UNEC Space Forces and Colonial Defense Forces

UNEC stands for "United Nations of Earth and her Colonies", so the colonial defenses are included in the UNEC Space Force (USF).

Baseline cost: approx. $91 Million

A bit cheap, isn't it?

Built: Started mass production in 2018
Planned: 40,000
Completed: 20,354

Again, that's an awful lot. Maybe tone it down to 1,280 planned. (60 per colony, 200 for ships, and 120 for Earth)

- Propulsion:
~2x Small Tech Con Ion Drives 14 million

Deciding not to go with an Earth based design Lockheed Martin decided that it was better and overall cheaper to outsource the part to a company that knew what it was doing. After some negotiations Lockheed Martin was able to replicate the part under the Tech Con name as well as paying out a certain percentage of each unit made on earth and since has been supplying the part to earth fighters.

Good.

-Maximum speed
~In Atmosphere: 1250 Meters per second

~In Vacuum: 1750 Meters per Second

There is no max speed in a vacuum. Just max acceleration.

- Armor:
~Trinium-Carbon Overlay 1.6 million

To reduce Cost Lockheed Martin decided to only put Trinium with a carbon mix over critical areas of the fighter and if supplies ran low on Trinium then they could remove the overlay to continue production of the fighter with just earth materials. The mix is a super strong material that is composed of a 60% Carbon and 40% Trinium that makes super hard and dense material to cover the vital areas of the fighter.

- Main Hull:
~ Titanium-Nickel-Aluminum alloy 2.2 million

To steam line the hull Lockheed Martin decided to use earth elements in fear that the galactic market would be shut down or colonies could not keep up with demands. Also Lockheed Martin knew that most of the off planet resources would be going to bigger ships and not fighters. So they looked at current materials on Earth that could be used in place, they decided to go with a Titanium, Nickel and Aluminum alloy as the hull of the ship as away to drastically lower costs of the fighter but still give the fighter a hull that is both strong and durable.

Sounds good.

-Sensor systems
~LM-4-multi visual array 2 million

The LM-4 is the fourth generation of sensor system that Lockheed Martin made when coming up with the F-100. The first few systems didn’t integrate alien and earth technologies very well and many glitches happened much like the F-301 however when the fourth system was made the pilots all agreed it was a perfect blend and gave them a superior edge in dog fights to most if not all known alien threats.

-Targeting systems
~Tech Con Targeting Computer 8 million

During Lockheed Martin’s trip to Hebridan they noticed the targeting computers set up by Tech Con during the Loop of Kan Grat and when the race was done the two parties agreed that earth would get the parts and soon would be a licensed dealer of the parts in the name of tech con. So earth’s fighters were given an alien technology because of how accurate the system is as well as allowing Lockheed Martin to replicate a piece of alien technology on earth.

I like it.

-Navigation system:
~LM-3 Star Map 1.2 million

Lockheed Martin made their own navigation system to be used onboard the Merlin that uses the neural interface to allow easy access of where the fighter was based off of star coordinates around them. Currently the system has the Milky Way and Pegasus Galaxy in its records to allow ease of access for the fighter to go from one galaxy to another.

Sounds good, but give it a different designation from the sensor system.

- Armament:
~2x LM 30mm Rail Guns 3.5 million
~6x Hard Points
~1x Internal Weapon Bays

For the weapon the Lockheed Martin team looked at their previous fighter the F-22 and saw how weapons aboard it could be introduced to the F-100. So they decided to keep an internal weapon bay that can hold numerous different missiles, they added 2 Lockheed Martin 30mm rails guns for dog fights and then added on 6 hard points to allow a variety of weapons to be added the F-100 to allow it to have what it needs for certain missions.

Very good. Though (as the good Commander has pointed out) railguns may be overkill.

- Shielding:
~LM-1 Shield Generator 10 million

The LM-1 shield generator is the first generation shield generator from Lockheed Martin that was developed around designs from a puddle jumper’s shields. The shield design was worked on by Doctor McKay however even with his help they weren’t able to full replicate the strength of the puddle jumper’s shields but were able to get 80% the same strength level. The shields currently can fend off most anti-fighter weapons for a short time before burning out and larger caliber weapons such as main plasma weapons and rail guns can easily cut through the shields.

This is good. But again, give it a distinguishing designation.

- Other technology:

~Holographic Projector 3 million

After Lockheed Martin developed the Merlin using mostly earth materials for protection they knew the fighter would be slightly weaker so they designed a holographic projector that allowed each fighter to project another two fighters to make it visually look like there were three fighters going in at once. This increased the fear factor of this ship and added protection to the fighter.

I suppose this is mainly for ground troops. Ships could just scan the ship and see which one was really there.

~Neural Interface 10 million

After looking at possible ways to make the fighter more efficient for pilots they were introduced to several different forms of neural interface technology from alien cultures and after three years of studying they were able to make a system for their fighter that allowed pilots to both use controls and be hooked up with a neural interface system.

So, like a Puddle Jumper, then? You can "fly-by-mind" or by stick, whichever is more comfortable. I like it.

~Asgard Emergency Beaming Node 15 million

After looking over countless mission reports from the Stargate program and 302 pilots Lockheed Martin’s team of engineers were able to add an Asgard Beaming node that allowed the pilot to be beamed back to the nearest ship or nearest habitable area in case of the fighter being destroyed. This allowed pilots a chance to escape however the beaming node is not the same one used on capitol ships as it only beams out and doesn’t beam back in. As well the beaming node to make it cheaper can only beam out a few times before being burned out but seeing as it is a safety feature most pilots don’t care as they are just glad to have it.

Good idea.

~LM-3 Culling Beam 15 million

Lockheed Martin saw that earth had not dependable drop ships so with help from Doctor McKay they were able to reverse engineer a Wraith culling beam that was place on the bottom of the fighter as to allow the Merlin to first clear the area with their fire power and then allow soldiers to be dropped in hostile areas that were clear instead of worrying about beaming down soldiers from space and being ambushed. Also the Culling beams can be used to pick up enemy troops or other defenses and just be taken out of the area.

Not so sure about this one. Wraith tech, being organic, might not be so easy to reverse engineer. Maybe save this bit of tech for later.

~Lock on Point $500,000

Many commanders aboard capitol ships wanted fighter support for missions however at the time many ship designs were going away from having fighters on board as they feared fighters would just turn into cannon fodder. So the guys at Lockheed Martin saw away to allow both to have their cake and eat it too. So they designed a lock on point on their fighters. The Lock on Point is much like a hard point but this extends from the interior of the fighter and allows it to lock onto different ships in space and then the pilots can get beamed into the ship or back into the fighter depending on when they are needed.

This is downright brilliant. It solves our fighter problem nicely, and even makes it in-universe.



I like this fighter. Good work!

[Davidtourniquet]

Well the budget for the fighter class was set at $500 million including a hyperdrive. So a non-hyperdrive fighter will be about $250-260 million.