Gateworld Virtual Fleet 4.0 - Discussion thread

[Gormagon]

Care to elaborate?

[thekillman]

It's the other way around:

Carbon is 800-1200x more abundant. but i will have to look up the exact figures.


From what i can tell in SG, it's less abundant than naquahdah by an order of magnitude. and Neutronium is at least two orders of magnitude less abundant than trinium.

[Gormagon]

Mhm k that is what I hoped you meant. Otherwise everything would be trinium palooza.



I think the Anubis mothership has around 180 heavy staff cannons.


By the way any feed back on my story so far? Should I keep writing it? Also I would find it much easier to read other fleets stories if 1-the thread page was not filled with those symbols. 2-Most of the wikia story paragraphs are mashed together, requiring much concentration to decipher.

[Gormagon]

By the way, do you have any specific stats on your Ko'tak or Aggregator class vessels? Power plants or weapons systems, drives, hull composition ect.

[Gormagon]

I was thinking about the Berzerker drones from SG-U (I have been doing a partial re-watch, skipping over the overdone drawn out over dramatic relationship issues that I deal with in my own life already and do not need to see that much of in my entertainment.) They must have automated factories to build more drones. Also, those drones are seriously cheaply built and mass produced from common/cheap metals because the only other craft seen being shot down by handheld rifles was a Dart, which is organic in nature.

This reminded me of an idea I actually had a while ago well we were arguing about the commonness of certain metals and elements in the universe compared to others. The Houjin have drones right? What about mass produced drones from cheap material made for swarming tactics and offense? Like, tens of thousands of cheap drones armed with light turrets and bombs.

[Gormagon]

Chapter Four

Kokiara was reading the latest tactical report on her holoscreen. Another contingent of warships had arrived and they were requesting supplies to continue the hunt for more Kaizoku bases. They had gathered as much intelligence as possible about said bases from what Kaizoku prisoners they had collected before they had been executed as traitors to the Houjin kingdom and enemies of the people.

Unfortunately the intelligence they had gathered was not substantial. Only higher tier members of the Kaizoku Karuteru knew the relative spatial coordinates of any of the more valuable or larger Kaizoku bases for obvious security reasons, and the two that had survived in partially intact damaged raiding vessels had possessed implanted jisatsu devices and had died before ever coming close to the interrogation chambers.

That was so inconvenient Kokiara thought. She had no sympathy for the Kaizoku, although she knew them to be devious and crafty opponents. They were all were traitors and virtually all were honor less, and many of them were murderers, thieves and exploiters, willing to do whatever it took at any cost to improve their personal profits. The Kaizoku were dangerous to everyone. They had to be eradicated from Houjin space!

The only good quality about them that Kokiara could think of was that they had kept the kingdom on alert. Who knew what dangers lay beyond the void between the kingdom and the rest of this galaxy? Especially now that they would be able to build vessels that could cross the void efficiently. The Houjin people could not afford to grow soft. That could mean the end of the kingdom she cared about and had dedicated her life to serve and protect.

There was still no word of Gindoaw or Storm Runner. She sighed.



Gindoaw performed every maneuver he could think of and a few random ones, but Dawnblade refused to give up its pursuit of him! They would have him in a holding field in a few moments….he checked his reactor. It was stable but still needed more time to energize his f.t.l system.


Auto cannon rounds and laser bursts were especially dangerous to him now that his main shielding system was inert. His navigational deflector did not do that much to protect him from weapons fire. A disturbing series of impact pings echoed inside his cabin.

He banked a hard left just in time to avoid what his sensors told him was a sizable volley of laser bursts. He was not sure if it was a good or bad thing that they were not using their heavier weapons on him. One direct hit from a fusion cannon and he would probably end up as space borne particles. Perhaps he would live just long enough during the process to feel his flesh being incinerated. He dodged another volley of weapons fire. On the other hand, they were obviously trying to capture him, which meant they would torture him to try to acquire the secrets of Storm Runner more quickly then they could on their own.

Well if that happened perhaps when he died at some point in time he could come back as an angry spirit and make their lives miserable. He chuckled at his own joke.

Why am I laughing at a time like this? He thought.

All of a sudden Storm Runner shook violently from a series of impacts! Gindoaw saw flashing crimson and violet warning lights on all the displays! His propulsion unit had taken a direct series of auto round impacts and was only at 24% capacity. He was losing relative velocity…and Dawnblade was closing fast!

No…no…no I don’t think so. It is not going to be that easy. He came about hard and directed Storm Runner right at Dawnblade.


“Lord I regret to inform you that we can no longer pursue Storm Runner.” The helmsmen said.

“Why not, did that swine flee into underspace?” Kortari demanded looking up from a holo unit he had been studying. He went pale when he saw the image on the main holoview projector. “ Hard to port evasive maneuvers! Now! “Kortari yelled. It was too late to prevent all collision however. Dawnblade swung to the side and Storm Runner grazed its main propulsion units.

“Main engines have been disabled, perhaps permanently! Power surges are occurring all throughout the propulsion system! With all the damage we already sustained…lord Kortari, I regret to inform you that we shall soon have the opportunity to explore this new planet.” Hadako stated grimly. Both vessels were about to be involuntarily introduced to the planet below.
End part one chapter four.

Any questions or comments?

[thekillman]

Simple extrapolation tells me that those drones would still need exotic matter for their exotic technologies, eg. energy weapons.

but yea, i have absolutely nothing against making the hull etc out of cheap material. of course, they'll not be very resistant to enemy fire.

Missile drones still need to be numerous to overcome CIWS anyway, and i'm talking dozens at least. It also depends on the number of ships: multiple Daedalus classes could link their CIWS via the CON system, tripling their CIWS capacity and tripling their sensor capacity.

Anyway, if i were you, i wouldn't try to make some universal tactic. Some stuff works against Goauld-era ships, some stuff horribly fails. tactics will always be custom work.

Any questions or comments?

use " " for when someone's talking. it makes it easier to distinguish from thoughts.

The way Hadako says:

“Main engines have been disabled, perhaps permanently! Power surges are occurring all throughout the propulsion system! With all the damage we already sustained…lord Kortari, I regret to inform you that we shall soon have the opportunity to explore this new planet.”

makes me wanna shoot him. It can be a good thing if you want me to hate him, it would be a bad thing if you wanted your reader to like him.


It's the first chapter i'm actually beginning to like, but it seems the KK are quite a carbon copy of the Lucian Alliance, being the criminals and all. (more like SG1's LA, not so much SGU's and my own).

[Gormagon]

use " " for when someone's talking. it makes it easier to distinguish from thoughts.

Er, I do. Did I miss those somewhere?

The way Hadako says:
makes me wanna shoot him. It can be a good thing if you want me to hate him, it would be a bad thing if you wanted your reader to like him.

Ok. Not really sure about the hate/like yet. Hadoko is a her btw. And care to elaborate?

It's the first chapter i'm actually beginning to like, but it seems the KK are quite a carbon copy of the Lucian Alliance, being the criminals and all. (more like SG1's LA, not so much SGU's and my own).

The LA was a partial copy of Earths own drug cartels, pirates and other criminal organizations. Not really sure how to make them that much different then other criminal organizations.

I improve rapidly at things once I know what the heck I am supposed to do.

[thekillman]

The LA was a partial copy of Earths own drug cartels, pirates and other criminal organizations. Not really sure how to make them that much different then other criminal organizations.

I improve rapidly at things once I know what the heck I am supposed to do.

True.

I understand how the Houjin feel about the KK, but i have no clue what the KK think of themselves. i mean, a criminal has many reasons to be one, yet never thinks of himself as evil or so.

I improve rapidly at things once I know what the heck I am supposed to do.

So far, both the Houjin and the KK really lack a purpose. You need to write down say, 3 core elements. That is, 3 things that define the Houjin, 3 things that fuel your story. 3 questions that everyone would love to have answered.


For me, the LA's core elements are: Variety (17 lords), Legacy (Aftermath of the goauld war), Structure (Rebuilding, conquering).

The 17 lords essentially embody certain aspects. Za embodies science, Omari military power, Machayo production, Belre economics. They're all sides of the same coin. they have different visions, which generates potential conflict, but also many visions on an aspect.

The Lucian Alliance to me is a way to answer the question: What the hell happened after the Goauld. They make extensive use of Goauld technology, but also are former victims of the Goauld. It allows me to fill in the Goauld aftermath.

My ultimate goal for the LA is to make them restructure the galaxy in a better, more equal whole. Not just a handful of planets with 99% of all power, but power more spread out. The LA conquers planets, but also spreads population to new planets, essentially forcibly colonizing worlds for the purpose of production and recruitment. also, they spread knowledge and advancement.

You don't have to write them down in one word, but the maximum would be 1 sentence.

It helps if you have some idea of what basic "forces" rule your story. Extrapolate from that, fill in the rest with common sense, logic and fallibility.

[Gormagon]

True.

I understand how the Houjin feel about the KK, but i have no clue what the KK think of themselves. i mean, a criminal has many reasons to be one, yet never thinks of himself as evil or so.

There is going to be more stuff from the KK viewpoint do not worry.

So far, both the Houjin and the KK really lack a purpose. You need to write down say, 3 core elements. That is, 3 things that define the Houjin, 3 things that fuel your story. 3 questions that everyone would love to have answered.


For me, the LA's core elements are: Variety (17 lords), Legacy (Aftermath of the goauld war), Structure (Rebuilding, conquering).

The 17 lords essentially embody certain aspects. Za embodies science, Omari military power, Machayo production, Belre economics. They're all sides of the same coin. they have different visions, which generates potential conflict, but also many visions on an aspect.

The Lucian Alliance to me is a way to answer the question: What the hell happened after the Goauld. They make extensive use of Goauld technology, but also are former victims of the Goauld. It allows me to fill in the Goauld aftermath.

My ultimate goal for the LA is to make them restructure the galaxy in a better, more equal whole. Not just a handful of planets with 99% of all power, but power more spread out. The LA conquers planets, but also spreads population to new planets, essentially forcibly colonizing worlds for the purpose of production and recruitment. also, they spread knowledge and advancement.

You don't have to write them down in one word, but the maximum would be 1 sentence.

It helps if you have some idea of what basic "forces" rule your story. Extrapolate from that, fill in the rest with common sense, logic and fallibility.

Ok, ill work on that.

[Gormagon]

For me, the LA's core elements are: Variety (17 lords), Legacy (Aftermath of the goauld war), Structure (Rebuilding, conquering).

Ok, how about this?
-Core stability(Economic, social. The isolationism has allowed them to work on their own internal issues.)
-Desire (They have been isolated for so long, first by the void, then by the danger of the Goa'uld. Many of them have grown tired of it and wish to expand outward. The demise of the Goa'uld led them to believe that would now be possible.)
-Forethought (They want to gather as much information as is reasonable before performing any action in a situation, and have been spying on the LA, the Tau'ri, the Hebridans and gathering information on the shadowy Aschen.)

The 17 lords essentially embody certain aspects. Za embodies science, Omari military power, Machayo production, Belre economics. They're all sides of the same coin. they have different visions, which generates potential conflict, but also many visions on an aspect.

They have those aspects of their own nation. The Musha/samurai have a certain way of doing things, the Ninja class has another but each desires the same goal. The great economic houses compete for resources and contracts but again they lead to the same outcome, the production of devices and technologies for the Houjin kingdom.

The science and exploration guild has a different way they want to approach the galaxy then the Musha/samurai.

When I start working on more modern stories I think that will help as well.

[Gormagon]

Going back to the attack drones, I know a fusion reactor is generally more efficient the larger it is but would it be possible to make a T/D fusion reactor small enough to fit inside a drone about the same size as my other fighter drones? To power the drives at least. If it could not pull enough power to power a plasma lance then one could switch to auto cannon rounds and bombs.

I also had a thought involving rail guns and coil guns. Could you wrap each slug in a static e5 field to make them more effective against shields?

And I think I remember the argument about weather to allow K-naq in the fleets was resolved as more people for it then against, so you could make auto cannon rounds more effective anyway.

[thekillman]

Ok, how about this?
-Core stability(Economic, social. The isolationism has allowed them to work on their own internal issues.)

Works for me.

-Desire (They have been isolated for so long, first by the void, then by the danger of the Goa'uld. Many of them have grown tired of it and wish to expand outward. The demise of the Goa'uld led them to believe that would now be possible.)

Good one

-Forethought (They want to gather as much information as is reasonable before performing any action in a situation, and have been spying on the LA, the Tau'ri, the Hebridans and gathering information on the shadowy Aschen.)

1: Given the complex history of the galaxy, and the fact that they have no Abydos cartouche or so whatsoever, figuring out the state of the Galaxy would be difficult for them. Since Earth is the only tie to the Aschen, they would likely be completely unaware of the Aschen. Not sure if "spying" works, since it would be very difficult to merge into the LA culture of brainwashing and the Tau'ri culture of Stoning. Observation works better.

2: It's something i envisioned for the Houjin myself too: their low hyperdrive speeds would make them planners, preparers. It also means they'd have lower reaction speeds and probably less capability of creative thought.

Going back to the attack drones, I know a fusion reactor is generally more efficient the larger it is but would it be possible to make a T/D fusion reactor small enough to fit inside a drone about the same size as my other fighter drones? To power the drives at least. If it could not pull enough power to power a plasma lance then one could switch to auto cannon rounds and bombs.

1: No idea. I think a fission-based powersource is better. the Machai do use Fusion for their fighters, but those fighters are bigger than your drones.

2: It's your party, but i think the Houjin are simply not equipped to fit their drones with any meaningful technology. the Aschen can, but the Houjin? I'd just build a bunch of missile drones, as little fancy technology in it as possible. Since they're at a technological disadvantage, i think the Houjin should seek Audacity in Size, not in Numbers. The Machai will develop and adapt to a bigger range of ships, more capable of keeping up with the galactic arms race.

3: Your stealth Drones are likely fighting a battle they can't win. I'd use them for pre-emptive, passive observation. As in: a ship drops out, ejects a few stealth drones (which operate on a minimum power level, with Iphone-levels of computer technology and a big hard drive to write the data to), and leaves before anyone has any idea of what happened.

In that case, such a deployer ship would likely require either a really big capacitor or a twin, independent hyperdrive system to only be in realspace for nothing more than a few seconds.


For the rest of the battle: I'd make all drones automated. somewhere in a 10x10x5 meter range, fitted with fission-powered VASIMIR drives. Hell, i'd probably make them run on Thorium fission. Make the structure in such a fashion that i can either launch by rail or coilgun, so i'm shooting drones rather than launching them. Similarly, the main launch ship would likely contain Aggregator-like main launch tubes, which launch missiles at high speed. in the Houjin case, i'd rack up the size to a big ICBM-style missile. about 4-6 independent missiles loaded as warhead, each with a naquahdah-enhanced nuke.

it would confront the enemy with a bunch of fighter-like targets and a bunch of much-faster moving missiles. Missiles would have the priority, while the fighters fall kind of in a weird category. Once close enough, the drones launch their own missiles and circle around, returning to the mothership for a reload.

[Gormagon]

1: Given the complex history of the galaxy, and the fact that they have no Abydos cartouche or so whatsoever, figuring out the state of the Galaxy would be difficult for them. Since Earth is the only tie to the Aschen, they would likely be completely unaware of the Aschen. Not sure if "spying" works, since it would be very difficult to merge into the LA culture of brainwashing and the Tau'ri culture of Stoning. Observation works better.

2: It's something i envisioned for the Houjin myself too: their low hyperdrive speeds would make them planners, preparers. It also means they'd have lower reaction speeds and probably less capability of creative thought.

I thought the only guys in the fleets with "fast hyperdrives" were the Goa'uld and the Tau'ri(And by extension the Ancients and Asgard.) Everyone else in our local cluster has slower f.t.l, like the Wraith. So would not the Houjin be average? Like, Aschen level speeds?

2: It's your party, but i think the Houjin are simply not equipped to fit their drones with any meaningful technology. the Aschen can, but the Houjin? I'd just build a bunch of missile drones, as little fancy technology in it as possible. Since they're at a technological disadvantage, i think the Houjin should seek Audacity in Size, not in Numbers. The Machai will develop and adapt to a bigger range of ships, more capable of keeping up with the galactic arms race.

How much of a technical disadvantage exactly?
I still want the shields, and the 042-B-AAC is not that fancy.
Explain the bold statement please.

3: Your stealth Drones are likely fighting a battle they can't win. I'd use them for pre-emptive, passive observation. As in: a ship drops out, ejects a few stealth drones (which operate on a minimum power level, with Iphone-levels of computer technology and a big hard drive to write the data to), and leaves before anyone has any idea of what happened.

In that case, such a deployer ship would likely require either a really big capacitor or a twin, independent hyperdrive system to only be in realspace for nothing more than a few seconds.

All larger Houjin vessel have redundant hyperdrive modules. They are in the tech drawings I made right now.

For the rest of the battle: I'd make all drones automated. somewhere in a 10x10x5 meter range, fitted with fission-powered VASIMIR drives. Hell, i'd probably make them run on Thorium fission. Make the structure in such a fashion that i can either launch by rail or coilgun, so i'm shooting drones rather than launching them. Similarly, the main launch ship would likely contain Aggregator-like main launch tubes, which launch missiles at high speed.

Whats wrong with innertialess drives?
Do you have Aggregator specs?

it would confront the enemy with a bunch of fighter-like targets and a bunch of much-faster moving missiles. Missiles would have the priority, while the fighters fall kind of in a weird category. Once close enough, the drones launch their own missiles and circle around, returning to the mothership for a reload.

An easily adaptable tactic to the ships I already have. Actually, it sounds exactly like what I was planning to do.

[thekillman]

I thought the only guys in the fleets with "fast hyperdrives" were the Goa'uld and the Tau'ri(And by extension the Ancients and Asgard.) Everyone else in our local cluster has slower f.t.l, like the Wraith. So would not the Houjin be average? Like, Aschen level speeds?

well since half the galaxy uses left-behind goauld technology (which the majority can't even reproduce), that puts many at goauld-speeds. though of course, most of the awesome stuff is in jaffa hands and the rest in the LA's. IE, Anubis-class ships.


The only ones with "normal " hyperdrive capacity are the Hebridans, the Machai and the Houjin. the rest either doesn't HAVE hyperdrive capacity, or uses goauld ha'tak.

How much of a technical disadvantage exactly?
I still want the shields, and the 042-B-AAC is not that fancy.
Explain the bold statement please.

Audacity in size. Each race has a certain "technology density". a 304 is smaller than a ha'tak, but has much stronger shields. thus, asgard technology has a much greater tech density than Goauld tech.

To match tau'ri ships, an enemy would either need a whole lot more, or a much bigger ship. Given that the Houjin are below Goauld tech, equal-size with numbers is probably not gonna work. Of course, it's kind of up to you what you do precisely. But I don't expect the Houjin to send 3 ships to a 304 and win.