Gateworld Virtual Fleet 4.0 - Discussion thread

[Lt. Col. Mcoy]

I'd just like to pop my head in for a sec and remind everyone about the general embargo we agreed to regarding new races/factions until the next fleet -- it was getting too complicated.

(Nothing against new stuff, mind you; we just wanted to work on what we've already got to avoid getting bogged down in the 3,000,000 plot-line mess that was 3.0.)


Oh, and as for the Shrin'yar, they most certainly have some planets now.

And, *cough*, they use phase tech ... so, yeah ...


Anyway, I'm popping out again. But I'll be watching ...

[Gormagon]

I know, its not official about letting in the Houjin, I really hope they are, but even if they are not allowed in 4.0 they can still be well developed for 5.0. And I agree, 3.0 was very messy with all the incomplete races, factions and story lines, but the Houjin are not gonna stagnate like, say, the Razg. They would be worked on and integrated into the existing story lines of 4.0 instead of making it a mess.

I was thinking about naquadria. Perhaps the issue is something like project Arcturas, exotic particles that produce "WTH" moments. It would not be instability on the scale of project Arcturas, but just something similar. Moderately unstable exotic particles in the naquadria atoms. However, we could say that the exotic particle is what allows the greater energy output.

Oh, I may loose touch with you guys for a few days, tomorrow we are gonna be gone all day hiking a mt., then we are supposed to get a nasty storm that could cut off our power.

[thekillman]

I think that implies that not all advanced technologies are kiron based

quantum physics ensures that on the atomic level and lower, all the technology will be a mess of particles popping in and out of existence.

also, a plasma weapon and a shield are easy to explain. Cloaking is more iffy, and the Hyperdrive is -in terms of my Theory's standards- pure speculation.

the hyperspace particle might not be a Kiron. but something like it has to exist.

an ionized plasma canon

plasma is ionized.

Houjin crystal

what are they?

I was thinking about naquadria.

i don't know what causes it, but i'd say it's a "Kirotrope" of naquahdah. essentially, it has a different composition of exotic particles in the nucleus which allow more energetic reactions but also make the atom less stable due to it's higher energy level.

Arcturus failed because Quantum Physics and spatial dynamics made it's containment field too much of a mess. Naquahdriah doesn't work that way. it can be stabilized as Mckay and Eli proved.


in fact i myself theorized it could be stabilized. it's instability is exponential, which means it's predictable. thus you could design a reactor with the expected deviation built in, add in 3 massive hyper-capacitors to smooth out the output and you're done.

Adarite?

Adarite???

they can still be well developed for 5.0.

even if they're not official for 4.0 they can be useful. mostly for ideas and thought experiments.

[Gormagon]

quantum physics ensures that on the atomic level and lower, all the technology will be a mess of particles popping in and out of existence.

also, a plasma weapon and a shield are easy to explain. Cloaking is more iffy, and the Hyperdrive is -in terms of my Theory's standards- pure speculation.

the hyperspace particle might not be a Kiron. but something like it has to exist.




plasma is ionized.



what are they?



i don't know what causes it, but i'd say it's a "Kirotrope" of naquahdah. essentially, it has a different composition of exotic particles in the nucleus which allow more energetic reactions but also make the atom less stable due to it's higher energy level.

Arcturus failed because Quantum Physics and spatial dynamics made it's containment field too much of a mess. Naquahdriah doesn't work that way. it can be stabilized as Mckay and Eli proved.


in fact i myself theorized it could be stabilized. it's instability is exponential, which means it's predictable. thus you could design a reactor with the expected deviation built in, add in 3 massive hyper-capacitors to smooth out the output and you're done.




Adarite???




even if they're not official for 4.0 they can be useful. mostly for ideas and thought experiments.

Mhm k, so your saying that there are/could be other particles that are not kirons but have similar functions?

Houjin crystal is an artificial crystal element. It has a special atomic lattice structure that allows a set amount of energy absorption/conduction. It is also stronger then carbon steel. Its used in Houjin hulls, armor and melee weaponry. I based it on dilithium.

And about naquadria, I do not know about the instability being predictable. It seems quite risky to me.

Adarite was from a SG-A book, casualties of war. Heres a link to the article.

[thekillman]

on melting points:

This is a difficult question to answer because new materials and alloys are being created all the time, and the material with the highest melting point now could change as new compounds are synthesized. Currently the record-holder is tantalum hafnium carbide (Ta4HfC5), a refractory compound with a melting point of 4488 K (4215 °C, 7619 °F). By mixing together various metals to create alloys, even higher melting points can be achieved. Materials with such exceptional physical properties are sometimes referred to as superalloys.

The chemical element with the highest melting point is carbon, at 4300–4700 K(4027–4427 °C, 7280–8000 °F). The second highest melting point of the chemical elements is tungsten, at 3695 K (3422 °C, 6192 °F), which is why it is used as a filament for light bulbs. Sometimes tungsten is called the element with the highest melting point because carbon does not actually melt under atmospheric pressure, rather it sublimates (transitions directly from a solid to a gas) at 4000 K (3727 °C, 6740 °F).

When very high melting points are desired in a piece of hardware, sometimes ceramics are used. One example is during Project Pluto in the 1950s, when American scientists attempted to create a nuclear-powered ballistic missile with an unshielded, gigawatt-level reactor. The reactor produced such immense heat that a ceramic chassis and components were necessary.

Under extreme pressures, the melting point increases. The Earth’s inner core of iron, for example, has a temperature of approximately 5,000 to 6,000 °C (>9,000 °F), yet it is solid, because the pressure there is about 3 million times greater than on the surface. Conversely, when the pressure is decreased, so does the melting point. On the surface of Mars, pressure is so low that any liquid water would evaporate almost immediately. This is why we have observed evidence of small temporary springs being created on Mars but no permanent bodies of water.

source:
Here


i think Trinium fits that league. although i'm not sure. it's exceptionally strong AND exceptionally light and it likely is because of exotic bonds. i'll do some quick research on melting points tomorrow. since Kirons move at the speed of light (or so i assume), the Kironic bonds would act like Electromagnetic ones. still, i'm not sure about the state of the electrons, as i think electron-wise it should be very weakly reacting.

i think that in the end it won't have an exceptionally high melting point, about 3000-4000 degrees Celsius. Naquahdah, in light of this, would need an adjustment. seeing it's exceptional density AND material strength, it likely would be somewhere around, uhm, 6000-8000 degrees celcius.



Trinium appears to be less abundant than Naquahdah, and since neither is radioactive, it's relatively safe to assume that Trinium is in fact a heavier atom than Naquahdah.


so it goes like:

Naquahdah => Trinium => Neutronium.


since Neutronium appears to be even denser and stronger than Naquahdah and Trinium, it's melting point would likely be exorbitant.

Mhm k, so your saying that there are/could be other particles that are not kirons but have similar functions?

i try to follow the rules of science, and they say i can't rule it out.

after all, we don't know what subspace is made of.

It has a special atomic lattice structure that allows a set amount of energy absorption/conduction.

not sure what you mean by this.

And about naquadria, I do not know about the instability being predictable. It seems quite risky to me.

the instability I = A+Bx+(cx)^2. A is the base stability factor, B is an unknown correction factor and c is an unknown correction factor. likely to be density and geometric shape. X is the function of energy extraction.

[Gormagon]

The Houjin crystal is not as effected by energy weaponry as other forms of matter because it can allow the energy to pass thorugh it, and can even channel it. Its really just a hypothetical material that I was hoping to use for my race. Its not as good a Kull armor obviously, but it has a similar function.

I hope there is plenty of trinium left in the galaxy.

[thekillman]

I hope there is plenty of trinium left in the galaxy.

there's a difference between relative abundance and actual abundance. i mean, i believe 95% of the universe (technically of the part that is actual matter) is hydrogen. yet look at the planets we have.

i mean, .002 or so percent of all hydrogen is Deuterium, yet we can harvest large amounts from the ocean. and while Trinium isn't that abundant, there would still be plenty, especially given the tiny scale we use it on.

Its not as good a Kull armor obviously, but it has a similar function.

i doubt you really need this.


combine several layers of (relatively) thick Trinium (alloy) wire into a relatively coarse mesh, and then add in Naquahdah (perhaps mixed with Gold?) fine wire mesh.

add a filler material (Boron carbide, carbon, carbon nanofibre or nanotubes, or so), and you have something similar. by adjusting the meshes and their percentage of contribution, you can produce a composite plate with both excellent material properties AND excellent anti-energy properties.


assuming we go with some form of basic Nanotech, it might be possible to make extremely complex Nano compounds with trinium and naquahdah nanofibres. say, the plate hardens when stress is applied, and the naquahdah mesh can be made finer or coarser. on the fly.

[Gormagon]

there's a difference between relative abundance and actual abundance. i mean, i believe 95% of the universe (technically of the part that is actual matter) is hydrogen. yet look at the planets we have.

i mean, .002 or so percent of all hydrogen is Deuterium, yet we can harvest large amounts from the ocean. and while Trinium isn't that abundant, there would still be plenty, especially given the tiny scale we use it on.



i doubt you really need this.


combine several layers of (relatively) thick Trinium (alloy) wire into a relatively coarse mesh, and then add in Naquahdah (perhaps mixed with Gold?) fine wire mesh.

add a filler material (Boron carbide, carbon, carbon nanofibre or nanotubes, or so), and you have something similar. by adjusting the meshes and their percentage of contribution, you can produce a composite plate with both excellent material properties AND excellent anti-energy properties.


assuming we go with some form of basic Nanotech, it might be possible to make extremely complex Nano compounds with trinium and naquahdah nanofibres. say, the plate hardens when stress is applied, and the naquahdah mesh can be made finer or coarser. on the fly.

Ok few. (Although some theories say that dark matter makes up 83% of our universe.) I am glad there is plenty left because we need the trinium for our phase devices. (Just messing with you.)

I used similar materials for Adnihilo hull on 3.0. They will work great.

Oh, are their any tractor beams for GWF? Or similar technology. They could function on ether intense magnetism, inverted repulsor energy waves, or gravity. Just some thoughts. Speaking of gravity, are there gravitons in GWF? They are a theoretical particle. The Asgard had some sort of tractor beam, they towed Prometheus. And the Goa'uld pulled that asteroid with the naquadah core into Earths solar system.(What happened to that rock? That was a large amount of frigging naquadah) Another way a tractor beam could work I suppose is by wrapping its subspace field around an object and moving it through hyperspace. But what about short distances?

[thekillman]

Speaking of gravity, are there gravitons in GWF?

no clue.

Oh, are their any tractor beams for GWF?

not that i know. magnetism only works on magnetic materials. "towed" is i think misleading, simply putting it in the subspace field suffices

[Gormagon]

no clue.



not that i know. magnetism only works on magnetic materials. "towed" is i think misleading, simply putting it in the subspace field suffices

Ok. Because you never see any "Tractor beams" in Stargate. At least, not that I can remember. And I know magnetism would only work on magnetic materials. It could have been a more primitive "tractor beam". But a subspace field works fine over long distances, but how would you move something a short way? Very controlled hyper speed? Or would you just form a subspace field that did not involve F.T.L?

I think trinium should melt at around 10k-12k F.,( 5537.7-6648.8 Celcius ) naquadah at somewhere higher then that, perhaps double because of the Ha'taks ability to sit in the corona of a blue giant, which is somewhere around 50k degree's F give or take. I think. Neutronium should be off the scale.

Perhaps the Houjin could come in late in the LA/Tau'ri war and save the Tau'ri or something, then the Aschen get involved or something I.D.k I need to read more chapters of the stories on the site.

Edit- I added some governmental info to the Arata page on the GWF wiki.

Side note, I have a feeling that the Adnihilo and or Wraith would enjoy these music vids, (Turn your speakers down.) here and here. Epileptics and sensitive people are not recommened to view them.

Oh man..there was something I wanted to ask or discuss...I cannot remember what it was at this time. Its driving me nuts. Insane. No longer in possession of ones faculties, three fries short of a happy meal..WACKO!!!!!

[thekillman]

an overview of possible weapons:


Plasma:

plasma weapons can be divided into two groups: meant to harm shields and meant to harm armor.

-Anti shield.
this is the "conventional" plasma weapon, where the vast majority of energy is present in the form of an exotic field carried by the plasma bolt. the plasma bolt is relatively harmless, but the exotic field does massive damage to shields. as i suspect some of this energy comes from fissioning naquahdah to form high-energy plasma, i'd say this energy weapon requires a relatively low input of energy compared to output.

-Anti Armor.
aka plasma Hellbore or a Thermal Lance. this is not the kind we see in stargate, but it's a theoretical predecessor of the anti-shield weapon. the Thermal lance is a plasma weapon, the Hellbore is a fusion weapon. it operates on a principle similar to the anti-shield form. the Thermal lance has an external powersource, while the fusion hellbore can theoretically be self-sustaining. both can be enhanced with a containment field to better sustain the integrity of the bolt/beam.

Ion:

the Ion weapon is not necessarily more high-tech, but is more "robotech". in stead of "painting" or "flavoring" the energy field as a side-effect of the energy weapon, the Ion Cannon fires Naquahdah Ions with a field "aligned" to a template field (consider it like an electromagnet magnetizing metal). this means the bandwith of the weapon can be relatively easily changed. although it completely depends on an external powersource, it's anti-shield effect can be devastating, to the point where it can easily penetrate shields with no effect to the bolt itself.

Anti armor:
the Ion Cannon is not that effective against armor, but can do medium-penetrating damage as opposed to the plasma "splash" effect.

Shield Drainer:
by producing an ion bridge through a continuously firing ion cannon, it's possible to quickly and harmlessly drain shields.



Particle:

Particle weapons fire a non-charged beam of naquahdah atoms. like ion weapons they are fully dependent on external power and are the least energy-dense of all weapons. however, intelligently designed cyclic or helical accellerators can somewhat change that. Particle weapons are mostly anti-armor, although they can defeat ships via the "thermal bypass". upon impacting the shield, Particle weapons generate waste IR photons, heating up the ship behind the shield.

Particle weapons can be "charged" with an active Kiron field, but this field is not as "sticky" as the fields on plasma and ion weapons.

[Gormagon]

Ok thanks.^. I am making good progress on the article, I am trying to make it a little more understandable for the average non obsessed person who do not possess as much knowledge about this stuff without corrupting the theory at all.

I have got the basic theory, weapons, shields and Naq/Trin/Neu pretty much done. Edit-We need more info about neutronium that is related to Kiron theory.

Also, what did you think of my melting points in my last post?

I am working on the weapons page now.

Edit-Ok, they are coming along nicely. Read over them if you like.

[thekillman]

neutronium has such a strong Kiron field that it, in combination with Nanotechnology, can overcome nuclear attraction forces.

[Gormagon]

If they are Human, then how else could they be so far ahead of us? Only one main way i can think of, being if they did not have a dark age or as long of a dark age as the Tau'ri, and they may be more scientifically minded then many Tau'ri.

When you think about it, (And i mean no insult or any discrimination of any sort) a large portion of earths population have minimal access to good education and struggle every day just to stay alive. (China, India, Africa, various islands, and south/central america.) so a large percent of Earths population is not contributing to our advancement. I do not see the Aschen having similar problems. With all the technology they have, and all the food they get, id bet they have excellent education facilities and no malnutrition/hunger distracting anyone. I also see them having a stable economic situation. Add to that the emotion drug, which could keep them calm, logical and rational, and you got a race of people who could advance quite fast.

So they may not be as generally advanced as the Tollan, but in the areas of offensive/defensive technology I can see them being almost as good, perhaps better. They want to expand and conquer do they not? The Tollan had no interest in conquest. And once the Tollan had an effective weapon against the Goa'uld, I do not see them advancing their ion cannons much. Oh, they also had beaming pads, I never saw the Tollan with beaming pads.

These may help.
Goa'uld-500 years ahead of Tau'ri-Cant remember were I read or heard that.
Tollan-800 years ahead of Tau'ri-no dark age.
Eurondan-100 years a head of Tau'ri.
Aschen-? Id say at least 400-500 years, at least. And they can specialize in bio/medical tech. Sam-"The Aschen are hundreds of years more advanced then us in medicine" Doc Fraiser-" The medicine I practice may seem like the Dark ages but I was your doctor for.."

Which would you rather have, a bio-weapon that can be designed only to effect a certain life form or even a person,(Its D.N.A based) or a phase capable W.O.M.D? Just interested to hear peoples opinions. I am not sure which one I would want. Actually, I choose c, both of the above.

Ok, I edited the quote it a little bit. Added some things.

Did you get to read the new pages on GWVF wiki?

I was thinking,(Dangerous yes I know.) who says that Naquadah has heavy atoms? Like, heavier then iron? Perhaps they are just very densely packed, and that is what makes W.G.N bricks so heavy. If the atoms are smaller then iron atoms, could they then be fused instead of split? Just thinking out loud here. Unless there is a source somewhere that says naquadah atoms are heavy.
Edit-^Had a Duh moment

Hey to what extent is genetic and bio engineering used on our GWVF wiki? Becuase the Houjin are advanced enough to do some things with that. Their Samurai warriors would definitely be modified for superior reflexes, senses and strength to normal Humans.

[thekillman]

I was thinking,(Dangerous yes I know.) who says that Naquadah has heavy atoms? Like, heavier then iron? Perhaps they are just very densely packed, and that is what makes W.G.N bricks so heavy. If the atoms are smaller then iron atoms, could they then be fused instead of split? Just thinking out loud here. Unless there is a source somewhere that says naquadah atoms are heavy.

because then it's not naquahdah. then it's dense iron.


from memory, the lowest possible spot for a unique atom is 114 i believe. given the trending and the Island of Stability, i'd say naquahdah is some 130, Trinium 180 and Neutronium 240.

i believe those are the next "double magic numbers", and thus most stable among their neighbors.

Protons are the "name tag", and the amount determines the element. Hydrogen has one Proton in the nucleus, Helium two, etc. if naquahdah has an occupied amount, it's not naquahdah.

Neutrons are a "flavor". they act as a "bonding agent" and varying amounts of neutrons generate various Isotopes.

Hey to what extent is genetic and bio engineering used on our GWVF wiki? Becuase the Houjin are advanced enough to do some things with that. Their Samurai warriors would definitely be modified for superior reflexes, senses and strength to normal Humans.

gah i'd hate to say this, but a bullet through their brain still hurts just as much.

oh and it would be a massive social/cultural thing. i mean, it could lead to Eugenetics and such. how would the general populace think of it? sportsmen would just do gene modification to be better, parents would modify their children as they see fit, with little regard to the various possible downsides.

i'm also not keen on a thing called superhuman strenght, since you can't gene-engineer that. yes, you can modify 4 genes and you have a natural Schwartzenegger, but that's no superhuman strength.

ethically bioengineered soldiers would be a huge thing since it kind of robs them of "free will". IE, made to be soldiers. to maximize the power and minimize the damage, gene modification would have to happen in the womb and it would rob the child of a choice other than being a soldier. it's not necesarily bad, but i doubt you're thinking like that.