Gateworld Virtual Fleet 4.0 - Discussion thread

[thekillman]

Do you guys realize how expensive that would be? That much naquadah would... well , it boggles the mind.

Why not something a bit less naqudah intensive: we use underground forcefield pipes filled with plasma. Plasma conducts electricity very well, and (I'm not sure here, but maybe) we can use cold plasma and forgo the force fields all-together.

depends, if we use alloys... also a basic headset wire when superconductive could replace the powergrid

[guppy338]

Don’t cruisers carry other smaller craft like small fast boats and a helicopter? So there is not really a difference from that carrying a small number of extra ship

[fugiman]

With a reduced number of classes, multi-rolling should be the requirement of almost every vessel

Fugi, come and talk to me when you have served over forty years in the Navy, 10 of them with the Fleet Air Arm

First let me say I respect your time in the service of your country

Secondly I will, however I am thinking of joining the air force not the navy so sorry I hope that is ok

Thirdly this is a space fleet, not a water fleet so there will be differences and if you would like us to have every ship be multi purpose then earth should just use the 304 and nothing else as it fits perfectly for carrier, battleship, science vessel, cruiser, destroyer and almost every other ship needed which is why I like a ship being one dimensional being that it is a cruiser or a battleship or a carrier but not all 3

So I hope no one takes offense at this comment (as last time I responded to you PJs I got some attitude which is a reason I don't really like to respond to your posts its not you its everyone else because I know you are a nice guy who respects people)

and to me this is just how I feel the fleet should go which is why we vote on things because I'm not always right and neither is anyone else

and finally I noticed the rank structure and its the NATO standard so thats why I really didn't talk about because it looks good

EDIT: For the record their is no sarcasm in any of this so please don't take it as it is

[Crazy Tom]

Fugi, if a s hip has too much multi role capability then it more or less does badly at everything. Jack of all trades and master of none.

At the same time, a ship that is too specialized is incapable of dealing with the diverse situation likely to be encountered in an SG setting.

And thirdly, a specific mission capability may have been added not because the ship needs it, but because it already has the equipment which can be used for multiple purposes. So a ship may be a dedicated warship, but it may have the space on board to carry supplies and personnel for disaster relief.

Cruisers are in fact the real workhorses in this aspect. Since their designed for independent patrol, while Battleships are typically fleet action units and thus honed to the bone.

As an artist (I guess, never thought I would say that) and as a political science student I don't think forcing people to work together will make things work, what or who decides teams? what or who decides what the final project will look like? What if one person doesn't feel like the others are listening to him/her and thus can't make their own submission and then they just don't feel like part of the team but the fleet as a whole

and yes I know these are the worst case scenarios but thats the way I see it and thats why I can't see forcing people together will work

I have to agree, I have a design that is simply too different to be meshed with anyone's.

I had a thought since we are basing the fleet ain the 2020s. Can I ask apart from are colonies would we have any other humans from other planets being affiliate members of UNE. This is because we have met many races that are around the basic technology level as us and other human civilisations that we have helped in the past. We also we took away many of human and other races structure when we killed all the Goauld?.

It would depend on the country that the colony belongs to. My impression is that the UNE is only responsible for things that affect all of human space.

[fugiman]

By the way Tom I know how you feel I used a few of your ideas in my fighter design and they got turned down hard, well not hard but they got turned down by a few people very hard and even my own ideas were turned down hard

and as for the ship I just see a cruiser as a cruiser nothing less and nothing more, I mean we still have the 304s to do everything else that is needed

[puddlejumperOZ]

I seems a bit much. I think we can just figure it out (and the nicknames are rather nation-specific, I think).

The tags are universal Mac, from the RN to the USN and even the Chinese fleets they use the same or similar ones. The rank structure is as per every fleet on the planet, only some do not use the NATO ranking, those being mostly the ones that follow the old Soviet methods

Don’t cruisers carry other smaller craft like small fast boats and a helicopter? So there is not really a difference from that carrying a small number of extra ship

Yes Guppy they do. On a typical USN cruiser you will have 1/ the captains barge, which is basically a half cabin cruiser, that has studs for a mg.50
2/ 2x large ships boats, 2 x .50 cal mounts
3/ up to 8 RIBS with 2 x .50 mounts or 1 x 20mm mount
4/ Two Seahawk sized helo's each with 2x .50 mounts and various missile/ torpedo loads.
--------------------------------

And Fuji I respect your views, I do. But Naval strategies transpose into space warfare a lot easier than Air Force thinking. Whilst Air force craft do tend to be mono rolled for each mission, when you are talking about the economics of a fleet of large ships (and not so large) you need to get the most from each class. We can even expand on that, by using older 304 ships as converted auxillary ships. Having a diverse but small class number of ships gives you greater flexibility in the warfront. And good luck with the Air force, it was my first choice but I missed the maths level that year of my enlistment. (Navy's was slightly lower)

[Lt. Col. Mcoy]

I would like to voice my disagreement with the idea that naval strategy is more suited to space than air force strategy. That particular illusion/myth is thanks to decades of Hollywood.

[fugiman]

Well I hope math isn't to much of a prereq as I am a political science and geography major and math is something I don't really have to do

Still its up to killman if he wants hangars or not

EDIT: Also I always thought the navy was a 2d warfare where as the air force is a 3d warfare taking into effect the z coordinates

[puddlejumperOZ]

I would like to voice my disagreement with the idea that naval strategy is more suited to space than air force strategy. That particular illusion/myth is thanks to decades of Hollywood.

No it's actually in the USAF/USN/NATO articles of future warfare paper, a seminar I attended in 2002

[Crazy Tom]

By the way Tom I know how you feel I used a few of your ideas in my fighter design and they got turned down hard, well not hard but they got turned down by a few people very hard and even my own ideas were turned down hard

and as for the ship I just see a cruiser as a cruiser nothing less and nothing more, I mean we still have the 304s to do everything else that is needed

Oh don't worry, it takes a while, but it always turns out I'm right in the end.

I would like to voice my disagreement with the idea that naval strategy is more suited to space than air force strategy. That particular illusion/myth is thanks to decades of Hollywood.

But naval logistics transfer easier into space.

OK, this is my gunship design, I'm not posting it on the other thread yet because it needs to have a cost estimate done and a few pieces of electronics named. In the meantime,e please critique.

Spoiler:

AC-401 Class Poltergeist Gunship

Production information Manufacturer
1/ Boeing Aircraft Seattle, WA USA
2/ ADI, Adelaide, SA Australia
3/ Nippon Heavy Industries, Nagoya, Japan
4/ EADS, Toulouse, France
5/ To be named off-world partners (optional)

Class
Gunship

Cost
$

Technical specifications
Ship Length: ?
Ship Width: 16-20 ft
Ship Height/depth: 16-20 ft

Dry Weight: Insufficient data to estimate.

Engine unit(s)
2 Inertial Dampeners reduce the ship's effective mass allowing the crew and structure to achieve high rates of acceleration.
1 INEC Fusion-Thermal Drive allows for high combat acceleration by heating inert propellant with a forcefield compression fusion reactor.
2 Inertia-less Drive Units instead of an inertia-less maneuvering grid give the craft a higher inertia-less acceleration for covert missions.
UNEF Stargazer Hyper-drive is a dual core Human system optimized towards “sprint” capability for rapid deployment.
MKII Naquadah Generator
Distributed Naqudah Capacitors provide power to the shield and are the main auxiliary power sources.

Fuel
Naquadah
Deuterium
Water

Shielding
Force Shield Protects the gunship from weapons fire by creating a conical force field as long as the capacitors have enough energy to do so. It also allows the in-aerodynamic Poltergeist to achieve hypersonic speed due to the a nigh frictionless characteristic of the force field. And a shield modification allows it to remain active once the capacitor has been depleted in order to deform and detonate early any munitions that hit it the ship and give the hull a better chance of absorbing the damage.

Hull
Naquadha-Diamond hull
“Demon Shield” Diamond Plating

Sensor Systems
Phased Array RADAR acts as both multi-band radar at long through short ranges, also used for jamming.
4 LIDAR Mounts Provide accurate short range detection and ranging.

Navigation System:

Countermeasures
Electronic Counter Measures serve to blind enemy sensors during combat.
Holographic Countermeasures & Active Camouflage allow the ship to maintain a holographic disguise and act as optical jammers.
Scuttling Protocols self destructs the ship by overloading the hyper-drive (high yield explosion with gravimetric side effects) or by feeding to much fuel into the engines (low yield explosion) should the ship need to be abandoned.
Electromagnetic Field Cloak to hide it from prying sensors and allow it to execute covert operations.

Armament
2 Plasma Canons for draining shields and disable small craft. (Spinal)
1 Micro-Space Dart ELS for anti-capital ship operations firing miniature guided nuclear devices or guided kinetic rounds. (Spinal)
2 Farhaut “Parry” CIWS firing ceaseless ammunition to provide point and area defense, and air cover in an insertion/extraction role. (Turreted)
2 Kirian-Junkrek Particle Beam CIWS turrets provide point and area defense, and air cover in an insertion/extraction role. (Turreted)
20 External Universal Hard-points can accommodate a wide range of missiles by using plug and play connections and missile pylons.

Compatible Equipment List
Subspace Pulse Generator for disabling small craft and in large groups, even capital ships.
Plasma Bomb Launcher for use in a shield draining, anti-capital ship role.
Reconnaissance Probes can be deployed for covert espionage and reconnaissance against enemy positions.
(Missiles)
(Tanks, APCs, etc.)

Crew: Pilot, Gunner, EW Officer

Cargo capacity
3380 to 4225 cubic feet of cargo depending on model (13ft by 13 ft cargo bay with a low end estimate length of 20 ft, high end 25)
7 days worth of Consumables to 11 days if rationed.

Other systems
Central Optical Network handles data analysis and target priority and point defense.
Mid-range VHF SWIFT (Subspace Wireless InFormation Transceiver)
Direct Neural Interfaces allow the craft's crew to keep a tighter grip on the ship than otherwise possible in the rapidly changing environment of a space battle.

Usage Role(s)
Customs
Anti-Piracy
Short Range Patrol
(Covert) Courier
(Covert) Insertion/Extraction
Bomber
(Covert) SAWACS
(Covert) Reconnaissance
Orbital Support
Close Air Support
Fighter-Bomber
Dropship

History
The idea that would eventually become the Poltergeist began as the inscrutable named Project 35 at the Russian Space Force's Design Bureau. Begun as the next generation space superiority fighter, before having it's role enlarged to bomber, and later troops transport, Russia's first home grown seventh generation spacecraft floundered under the asphyxiating blanket of excessively high expectations, and the program was canceled after five years of intensive design studies and a half completed prototype.
With disclosure and the formation of the UNEF, Dr. Nikolay Yetchkin, the mastermind behind the 35 passed into UNEF hands after the unification of the IOA space forces where it was upgraded with the latest electronics, and revived the basic design, now with off world supplies providing off the shelf components and production capabilities, and without the stiffing cloak of absolute secrecy, the renamed Poltergeist entered the UNEF's Gunship challenge as an in-house competitor.

Designed around a cavernous central cargo bay, the Poltergeist can carry nearly any weapon or piece of equipment in the UNEF arsenal as well as serve as a drop-ship. It's gate capable nature means that it can be deployed almost instantaneously to a hot spot by using a nearby Stargate and going the remaining distance under hyper-drive which combined with the flexibility of the layout makes it a perfect fast response unit, for anything from a pirate raid to search and rescue operations.

[blackluster]

I would like to voice my disagreement with the idea that naval strategy is more suited to space than air force strategy. That particular illusion/myth is thanks to decades of Hollywood.

I can't think of an airforce model that adequately describes a theater of war involving vessels with maneuverability, layout and purposeful design like a seafaring ship. The converse is not true though, since aircraft carriers have long since integrated airforce like models into combat strategies involving larger, slower moving vessels.

Also I always thought the navy was a 2d warfare where as the air force is a 3d warfare taking into effect the z coordinates

I'd actually say its completely the opposite. Consider that naval engagements extend from the skies above a ship (aircraft threat) to the water below it (submarine threat) to physically in-accesible areas (land-based threats) and the naval model would actually seem to encompass more dimensions than an airforce model.

[puddlejumperOZ]

Firstly Tom, I think seriously we don't need a cost breakdwon on every component, I said this before and I quote "you don't ask the value of your seat belts, when you buy a new car"

Just the final price should be enough. So I would put yours at around $350-450 mil

A squad may be as few as a four man team, hardly much different to a puddlejumper, but at the same time you've not figured a length, yet you have

the Poltergeist can carry nearly any weapon or piece of equipment in the UNEF arsenal as well as serve as a drop-ship

Does that mean what? An IFV Stryker, a 105mm howitzer? We need to know a little more.

If you want it to be gate capable, then any external hardware will need to be retractable, limiting your internal payload in the process. Basically what you are looking at is a lengthened version of a Jumper, because it is essentially tailored to fit neatly through the Stragate

[puddlejumperOZ]

I can't think of an airforce model that adequately describes a theater of war involving vessels with maneuverability, layout and purposeful design like a seafaring ship. The converse is not true though, since aircraft carriers have long since integrated airforce like models into combat strategies involving larger, slower moving vessels.

I'd actually say its completely the opposite. Consider that naval engagements extend from the skies above a ship (aircraft threat) to the water below it (submarine threat) to physically in-accesible areas (land-based threats) and the naval model would actually seem to encompass more dimensions than an airforce model.

You said that better than I did, thankyou blacky

[Lt. Col. Mcoy]

You don't say? A seminar? Interesting.

I think we may be talking about different aspects of "naval" and "air" strategy. I'm not denying that some naval realities match space realities, but not nearly all of them.



You don't have to cost every little thing. Just the basics.

[Crazy Tom]

Just the final price should be enough. So I would put yours at around $350-450 mil

I'll go with that unless David tells me m otherwise then.

A squad may be as few as a four man team, hardly much different to a puddlejumper, but at the same time you've not figured a length, yet you have

I wikied it, it said a squad is 12-14 and a squadron is 4, the mater is further complicated by fire-teams. So I did my best, but yeah, in dropship mode it can carry 12-14, I'm not sure what ENEF squad sizes are.

the Poltergeist can carry nearly any weapon or piece of equipment in the UNEF arsenal as well as serve as a drop-ship

Does that mean what? An IFV Stryker, a 105mm howitzer? We need to know a little more.

Yes, and yes. Anything that will fit in it's 13ft high by 13ft wide by 25ft long cargo bay.

If you want it to be gate capable, then any external hardware will need to be retractable, limiting your internal payload in the process. Basically what you are looking at is a lengthened version of a Jumper, because it is essentially tailored to fit neatly through the Stragate

Actually, no It took a while for me to come up with a design that would let me avoid any of that retracting stuff, but I finally got it. Basically a cylinder with the ELS and plasma cannons running down the ceiling and floor and the cargo bay in the middle.

The empty cargo bay is on the front of the ship while the engines, cockpit and fuel is at the back. It means that it's unbalanced when unloaded, but with inertial dampening...

The only downside is that it's about as esthetically pleasing or interesting as a flying brick. I'll upload a drawing as soon as I replace my present OS with one that accepts my printer/scanner.

edit: A jumper is actually a lot smaller than the gate, while the Poltergeist has only about 2 feet of clearance on either side.