Gateworld Virtual Fleet 4.0 - Discussion thread

[thekillman]

we get those jobs regardless....

[the-alguroan]

why? the powergrid is fine.

it is fine but with these new generators i would assume that some sort of overhaul would be needed for transfer types in power. probably not but if so then it would provide jobs.

but mcoy's right we are just thinking of one part, hell if anything this would lower costs of power and with that less needed maintenance cost and other things could be sent to mining and other types of jobs.

[benoz777]

Well the time is not finished and seeing as how you rigged it nicely I'm voting for the HEROINE class, and for those of you who have a problem with that name, as PJ pointed out earlier, the French had a WARSHIP named Marie Curie. Now my vote is not going to chnage things, but I think this new system has done exactly what you were arguing about with PJ's "friends" votes. Now you have done the same with Killman.

I offered a compromise earlier which would have settled the situation but it seems you chose to ignore it here http://forum.gateworld.net/threads/7...1#post11732948

I think in all fairness and goodwill this is the best solution.

[Weedle]

Well said dude, I know I'm new and there has been accusations of bad play here. I don't know a lot about all the tech stuff, but I'll give my reasons for voting for the ship. It just seemed to me to be more strargtey and less over the top than the others. And the comment about nurel interface, it's being experimented with now in submarines so why wouldn't it become normal in say a few years?

[AnubisJr]

I didn't think there would be so much politics and bickering in a virtual fleet

but I agree with McCoy their are so many new jobs that the loss for the power industry would be nothing but a small set back in the grand scheme of things and it would still allow earth to set the base for the next generation of energy tech

[puddlejumperOZ]

1/ I'm getting fed up with people trying to upset this thread.

2/ If it will make you all happy I will withdraw my submission and start another virtual fleet where this kind of crap doesn't happen any more. This whole voting thing is plagued with problems and I cannot for the life of me see what it accomplishes except bad feelings and angst. It was suggested before that we build this fleet as we would in real life, with commercial enterprise, but as you still feel you all want "my ship, my ship" attitudes, I can no longer deal with that.

[Lt. Col. Mcoy]

I'm really tired of all this feuding.

I don't care why someone votes for a ship; that's their business. I may disagree, but they have a right to their vote just the same. I really don't see how it's been rigged, either.

I didn't ignore your proposal; I specifically said that I just don't feel comfortable with two cruisers. I did mention one way we might do it, but no one else agreed.


Anyway, the current count:


Valkyrie - 9
Heroine - 8

Voters: David (1/1), immhotep (1/1), Benoz777 (1/1), Guppy (0/1), and blackluster (0/1)


Can we at least agree that whatever this vote comes out as, there will be no griping?




EDIT: PJOZ, I and several others are fine with the "corporation" method. But we just never implemented it. We kept going like we were, more 'cause people are used to it than because we disagreed.

I think it's too late to switch tactics now, personally, but I think if and when we get to a point where we need new ships then the corporation way is the way to go.

[Lt. Col. Mcoy]

And I can tell you right now, PJOZ, that pulling out and starting another fleet won't fix things. AJT did, and it nearly strangled the first fleets.

We need to work together.


I think the problem we have in this fleet is that there's no clear leadership. In the first fleets, Tep and Buba held us all in check. Now we're cut loose. Names have been thrown around; you, David, Tep, even me (Lord knows why).

I would suggest that we elect a leader . . . but of course that could lead to more griping. On the other hand, it may be what we need to survive.

[benoz777]

Don't worry about the old man's rant Mcoy, he's wearing his Navy cap today So are we goibg to wait for Guppy and Black? They may not post before the deadline which is 3 and half hours way and we might still end up with a draw? How about this, and I know it would be a miracle for those two to work together, but what about Killer and PJ's ships have their best assets combined to make on hell of a ship with a new name, like the Eagle class for example.

[Lt. Col. Mcoy]

If 'killman and PJOZ can work together, then sure, that's brilliant. I'll even sing the Hallelujah Chorus from Handel's Messiah.

If not, then I'll wait as long as need be for blackluster and Guppy. I'd prefer a democratic solution (I never thought I'd say those words . . .).


And I always worry.

[Crazy Tom]

the main things i dislike about the heroine class:

-the name. heroine. you sniff heroine. and a class meant to kill, named after a person who saves lives?

I thought we were voting for specs.

-backup shield. IMO fishy.

Not at all. It's a perfectly reasonable and even minor modification to a regular shield to allow the hull some extra protection against missiles and kinetics after the shield capacitors have been drained.

-3 MkII reactors. why so much power?

Retcon.

-cost. shields alone cost multiple billions, this ship has two. how can it be so cheap? even the weakest shield costs 10 billion or so.

There is no second shield, it's one shield that is modified to not shut down when the capacitors are drained, taking power from the reactor directly.

-neural interfaces. might aswel do an AI war while we're at it and remove all human components. pure realism is not preferable.

That's it, what the hell Killman? Every time the subject comes up you lambaste it. What the heck do you have against AI or digital life forms in general? It's like some totally irrational anti-digital racism.

-seems to have a rather large AC force.

More than justified by it's mission parameters. And shown to be able to fit in the hangars, so the argument won't fly, if you pardon the pun.

-no weaponsfigures of any kind, so there's no option for comparison with my craft. mine has a few big guns, this thing seems to have many small guns.

The problem is that not everyone is familiar with how to assign these figures, we need an FAQ for this.

as to water for fuel? at high temperatures that becomes hydrogen and oxygen, a reductor and an oxydizer, which will wear down the engines VERY fast. i'd suggest helium. inert, high specific energy capacity, abundant.

Helium is not easy to extract however. It doesn't matter what the material surrounding the naq pellet actually is, it can be dirt and it would still work.

as to NNP's:

use Tok'ra oneway shields to project a box/sphere/whatever shield, inwards. inject liquid helium, which fills up the shield. a naquahdah pellet is shot inside, then an array of particle beams deploy the right radioactive material at high speed, causing fission and superheating of the helium which then expands massively, causing a momentary high-energy pulse.

We know how the drive works Killman, through your iteration would be more dangerous since it seems to try and contain a lot more of the explosion.

TOM, the railgun discussion reveals IMO your greatest weakness: you might get the theoretical aspect perfectly right, but you totally ignore the engineering aspect. just cause something works nicely in theory doesn't mean it's easy to make, or possible to make at all.

First off, I most definitely do not ignoring the engineering aspect, and any time it seems like it it's because we either have absolutely no data on the technology (shields and hyper drives have so far only been defined in terms of what they do, not how), because the SG universe does not follow the laws of physics, or because I simply wasn't aware of a problem (which given the fact that we're working with incomplete data, I think can be excused.)
Having said, that I know about this weakness of mine, and I try and counter it by getting opinions from people with actual experience in the field.
This does not mean however that all theoretical stuff won't work or will be impractical. What i'm doing is extrapolating from the already fantastic tech level in SG, so if you want to blame somebody, blame the writers. And simply because we haven't see it on the show yet, does not mean that it's impractical or won't even surpass the more traditional technologies.

also i believe the Heroine has had far more influence from Crazy Tom than anyone else.

C'est la vie, and I won't deny it. But I voted for it because it was in my opinion the best fit, I could go into detail on my reasoning, but I think after a year and a half (or more... timekeeping is not my sting suite) of working together you can trust me not to vote for a design for personal reasons.

lastly, i know that i have a reputation. it's because i feel that it's my job to take apart someone's idea, check all the components, criticize them and then submit my own ideas.

And it's why we love and hate you.

I very much doubt that anyone would come out and actually attack the IOA. Riots, demonstration, more intense than usual political squabbling, yes to all. But anyone who tries overt action would be swiftly glassed from orbit, and political consequence be damned. No country would stand for an unprovoked attack.

I think that energy would become dirt cheap, there would be overwhelming public pressure to implement fusion power plants. Public pressure is important, because it won't allow the UNE to withhold information on technologies that would benefit the public. Things like teleporters, would be regulated, to keep industries in the loop while the retool for manufacturing new products, and some things would not be practical (like naqudah power, fusion is cheaper), but overall, we will see a technological revolution across the board.
And we know for certain of one planet that ha fusion technology already and we can trade with: Euronda. So no R&D costs for us.

On a tangent, Thorium reactors were actually the main competitors for civilian power, but were replace by uranium ones in order to to generate the enriched materials required for the cold war arms race.

If you talk to him about a Hero class, we may end up with a Battlecruiser named Gandhi!

YES! That would be hilarious!

It's not so far fetched, it's purpose is to keep the peace...

A neutral location for the stargate? How about the moon? I take it I don't have to list the benefits?

Orbital shipyards? What the heck for? It complications compared to building a ship on Earth are astronomical. And million ton ships can easily lift off from a planet, so the traditional rational for orbital shipyards won't work. Orbital infrastructure would probably focus more on material manufacturing, exploring vacuum, low temperatures and freefall, and medical sciences.

Cleaning up Earth orbit becomes really easy: we have at least one ship stationed in orbit at all times, so why not give the crew target practice? There are a lot of dead satellites out there that would be vaporised y a single hit from a plasma cannon. All the other debris can be cleaned up with one of the Asgard beaming stations we have left.

Now, all this talk of megacorps doesn't take into account that with free energy, concepts like money and economy start to become a little obsolescent. And your assuming that the governmental won't fight back by more innovative means, like becoming post-scarcity societies.

Mars may have less gravity, but so would worlds that the Goa'uld already terraformed for us. We just never saw them because it couldn't be done on the SF budget.

You're thinking of one industry. I'm thinking as a whole. We have R&D jobs, construction jobs -- just think of the infrastructure that needs to be built on the colonies! -- diplomatic and government jobs, shipping/piloting jobs, entire new branches of the Armed Forces, etc.

I see thousands of jobs created. If not on Earth, then on the colonies. Or helping the Jaffa. Or working with the Hebridians. Or (for the adventurous) relief to Pegasus. The possible jobs are in the tens of millions, at least.

Any downturn would be more than compensated for by the opportunities. It would be a economic boom, in fact, because so many new jobs are available, and our new energy resources allow countries to actually pay their workers without getting into exorbitant debt.

And I can tell you right now, PJOZ, that pulling out and starting another fleet won't fix things. AJT did, and it nearly strangled the first fleets.

We need to work together.


I think the problem we have in this fleet is that there's no clear leadership. In the first fleets, Tep and Buba held us all in check. Now we're cut loose. Names have been thrown around; you, David, Tep, even me (Lord knows why).

I would suggest that we elect a leader . . . but of course that could lead to more griping. On the other hand, it may be what we need to survive.

As I said before: we need a third party group to keep us in check. Less a leader than an impartial consultant like Ouroborous or Mr. Oragahn.

[puddlejumperOZ]

I'm really tired of all this feuding.

I don't care why someone votes for a ship; that's their business. I may disagree, but they have a right to their vote just the same. I really don't see how it's been rigged, either.

I didn't ignore your proposal; I specifically said that I just don't feel comfortable with two cruisers. I did mention one way we might do it, but no one else agreed.


Anyway, the current count:


Valkyrie - 9
Heroine - 8

Voters: David (1/1), immhotep (1/1), Benoz777 (1/1), Guppy (0/1), and blackluster (0/1)


Can we at least agree that whatever this vote comes out as, there will be no griping?




EDIT: PJOZ, I and several others are fine with the "corporation" method. But we just never implemented it. We kept going like we were, more 'cause people are used to it than because we disagreed.

I think it's too late to switch tactics now, personally, but I think if and when we get to a point where we need new ships then the corporation way is the way to go.

It would have saved all this drama, but I have to agree that however this turns out, there is going to be ill feelings all around. Personally I wish this had never gone down like this. I still believe that to keep it simple if we have to have a vote system, it should be one vote only for each player and that's it. The way this is, there would have been nothing stopping anyone casting two votes for themself.

[Davidtourniquet]

Well the time is not finished and seeing as how you rigged it nicely I'm voting for the HEROINE class, and for those of you who have a problem with that name, as PJ pointed out earlier, the French had a WARSHIP named Marie Curie. Now my vote is not going to chnage things, but I think this new system has done exactly what you were arguing about with PJ's "friends" votes. Now you have done the same with Killman.

I offered a compromise earlier which would have settled the situation but it seems you chose to ignore it here http://forum.gateworld.net/threads/7...1#post11732948

I think in all fairness and goodwill this is the best solution.

Not really, I feel killman's is the better option, why because as I've said before I do not agree with support craft on cruisers and also the cost doesn't match the the equipment.
PJOZ, I want the best ship that has been voted as the best ship, it's not about "my ship my ship". People have the right to know why their ships haven't been voted for. Also, people aren't upsetting the thread, this is debate and as I said, people want to know why one ship has been voted over another, especially if it can't be seen why the submission being voted for is so much better than another.
Mcoy, that was my reason for not changing it now, we are too far into the voting process to change the system.
PJOZ, no-one can vote for themselves twice if they submit. It's one vote for their ship, one vote for another submission.

[Crazy Tom]

I'd prefer a democratic solution (I never thought I'd say those words . . .).

It's the worst form of government- except for all the others.

[the-alguroan]

It's the worst form of government- except for all the others.

lol so true. but honestly didn't think one ship vote would cause all of this, geez whats next to cause the next general meltdown? deiceding on curtains ??