Gateworld Virtual Fleet 4.0 - Discussion thread

[Davidtourniquet]

Can I point out Killman, that we essentially cheated into becoming a space empire originally because we cosied up to the Asgard, so we are already beyond where we were "suppose to be". Fugiman, it would be great to be able to put super shields and super weapons on everything (I'm not saying that is what you are suggesting), but we can't. We cannot build a sufficient number of shield generators for every fighter that we plan on having (I can't remember your fighter numbers off the top of my head sorry). Also shield generators would add a lot of mass to the fighter and would slow the fighter down. The whole point of a fighter is to be manoeuvrable and a shield generator would take away some of that manoeuvrability. I think it's better to concentrate the funds on making the fighter as fast and as manoeuvrable as possible. Don't get me wrong fugiman, yours is a good fighter and there are things like pilot ejection that needs to be looked at, but I just feel at the moment that we are barking up the wrong tree with shield generators on fighters.

[thekillman]

i know that, but that doesn't mean all tech is at the level our shields and hyperdrive are

[fugiman]

Quick question have we ever seen a shield generator on the puddle jumper or on the Ori?

The reason I ask is because I don't think we have therefore you have no way of knowing how big a shield generator for those ships are thus are you are doing is just assuming and guess what that makes an ass out you and not me

[thekillman]

too big to fit in a Death Glider and the goauld had no money problem.

maybe i am an ass. being an ass has no impact on the right or wrong of my words

[Davidtourniquet]

It's a pretty safe assumption though fugiman, why don't they put shield generators on death gliders, puddlejumpers or ori fighters? Cause they are too big.

[lord groovy]

And puddlejumpers and Ori gliders were made by the most advanced races of SG universe. Even if they had shields, there is no possible way for the Tau'ri to build one for the F302s/F100s and mass-produce them.

So far the smallest craft that have a shield is the Alkesh.

So Fighter +shield generators => craft the size of an Alkesh => Why keep calling that a fighter!?

[Lt. Col. Mcoy]

My two cents:

The whole fighter-shield thing is similar to the tanks vs. Humvees. You could put shields, heavy weapons, hyperdrives, etc on a fighter, but with all that stuff why not just make it a gunship? Its like how we could put heavy armor and ordinance on Humvees (or *insert comprable vehicle name here*s), but then you need to ask, "Why not just build a tank?" They have different purposes.

Now, I'm be fine with something like the Jumper Shield on a fighter (which is what I believe fugiman had), but I'm just not certain we could replicate those so easily. Why? Because the Jumper Shield was a modified cloak from the Jumper. Now, we could transfer the shield/cloak unit between ships, but I don't think we could mass produce them ourselves.

The thing I really have concerns about is the beaming tech. Don't get me wrong here, it'd be brilliant to have it. I just don't think we can shrink the Asgard beam nodes that much, and (even supposing we could) the one thing people forget is that shrinking stuff like that makes it more expensive, not less. And the beam nodes already cost six billion dollars! It's just not practical. And the only alternative, Wraith tech, is a) something we can't replicate, b) something that would be dang hard to interface with, and c) something we can't simply acquire by trade.

Those are my thoughts, anyway.


Current count:

Davidtourniquet:___3
Vortex

bradly08:_________1
Hawk

thekillman:________2
Aethon

immhotep:________0
Medusa/Hydra

Princess Awinita:____1 (Startail), 0 (Windfire)
Windfire or Startail

blackluster:________1
Asagai

puddlejumperOZ:___2
F-100, Mk. I and II

fugiman:__________2
Merlin



Voters:
Thekillman (2/2), Davidtourniquet (2/2), Bradly08 (1/2), Princess Awinita (2/2), Lt. Col. Mcoy (1/1), puddlejumperOZ (2/2), fugiman (2/2)

[thekillman]

as i said, a shield defeats the purpose of a fighter.

not that they are logical anyway but considering the insane speeds these lil thingeys can achieve in space + nuke makes them perfect intelligent hack-proof missiles.


more info on the Locust:


Locust arc name: Scourge of the Stars.
Location: near the Crab Nebula (7000 Ly's from earth)
Featuring: SG-9 (my new SG team), the Locust, the Hades (BC-304 of one of the colonies), and a Locust Wyrm.
time: April 2025-unknown
Characters: name TBD,

[Lt. Col. Mcoy]

Interesting. Very interesting.

[fugiman]

You know what I don't even care in fact I think I might just look and not touch seeing as how whenever I have an idea of my own it gets shot down so have fun guys you might hear from me again you might not just don't ruin this one please and I will probably write a story for the fleet about that is most likely it have fun guys

EDIT: and David there are shields on puddle jumpers and ori fighters so I don't understand your last post

[Davidtourniquet]

Your statement before sounded like you were suggesting they don't.

[QUOTE = fugiman]Quick question have we ever seen a shield generator on the puddle jumper or on the Ori?[/QUOTE]

Yes the fleet is about having fun fugiman, but let's be realistic about it. Stargate is one of the most realistic sci-fi's out there. Let's not take that away. Also, even if puddle jumpers and ori fighters have shielding, they are ancient races, you can't expect us to be able to do the same.

[thekillman]

if you don't want to invest energy into suspension of disbelief that's fine IMO. i won't have this fleet turn into something where the one with the most ubertech wins, i will not have Earth become the human version of the Razg and i will not have this fleet be a center of technobabble.

i also believe we have spent about enough time discussing, i think that after the Gunship is chosen, we start.

[Lt. Col. Mcoy]

Fugiman, leaving won't help. I personally think you have great ideas, and just because you don't always get your stuff in doesn't mean it's bad. Do better! Not all of my stuff gets in either, or 'killman's, or anyone's.

'killman, I'm getting annoyed with all the "I, I, I". Sorry to be so blunt, but you're starting to sound like AJT in the first fleet (if you don't know the name . . . look it up). Try to be more of a team player. And it may just be a difference of personality, but you can drive people off, I'm afraid. More people will listen to you if you're nice about it.

[Davidtourniquet]

^ The same as AJT did

[thekillman]

i know it's a damn annoying problem of mine. to some people even a normal or positive post of mine is filled with hatred.

i don't want to drive people off but mistakes in the past have been made, i've recognized them, i've debated over stargate in so many threads i can't remember anymore, about the mistakes and failures and weak points and what should be encouraged and what should be discouraged. and technobabble, excessive technobabble, unnecessary details and way too precise planning, combined with a sole focus on advanced technology as a means to win, that is what hurt the other fleet. endless complexities, canon only planned and discussed, precision to a point where it defeated the purpose.

Stargate itself suffers from technobabble and it suffers deeply from a focus on advanced technology as a means to win. it suffers from an incredible ease at which technology can be made and duplicated and understood.

let me get this clear.

BSG: there are 2 main characters that are engineers, and there are various secondary and tertiary engineer characters. technobabble? minimal, barely existant even.

Stargate: ONE engineer/physicist main character. in one episode there's more technobabble than BSG has over the course of it's run. furthermore the Writers sometimes specify stuff a little too much, but never quite up to the point where major contradictions happen. yes they made some mistakes. but previous fleets have made it too complex.

a little oversight:

AUVF: alternate Universe Virtual Fleet.

Premise: the ori did invade and earth evacuated.
fell apart because: population numbers were too low to fight a full-scale war against a technobabbled wraith, where we resorted to more and more technobabble to keep up and eventually it alienated stargate.

GWVF 1.0: evolved to 2.0 evolved to 3.0

GWVF 3.0: died because of the intense insane complexity of the universe, beautiful fleet but impossible to comprehend.


Other Gateworld Virtual Fleet: died because it involved dozens of nations

what else?

they made mistakes. i don't want that again. i see things in a way i can't explain because i suck at explaining, and as my specs and additions of technologies i invented to the main tech prove, i'm Idea Man. i'm good to throw around ideas untill i hit the nail properly. i'm not a leader and i never want to be. because i'm not that type.

i don't want to command because i am the type that needs to be commanded. if i were in the White House, i'd be the president's advisor, not the president. if i got a chance at being the president, i'd decline.

for the sake of the fleet, Davidt Tourniquet and Mckoy should be in command, as the people with experience and the people of command.


i have no idea about PJOZ's commanding abilities. by the way can we drop that whole "commander"/"admiral" act? i hate it. it takes a damn lot more for me to respect someone like that. like my enourmous respect for Immhotep, and my respect for Davidt and Mckoy. they really deserve it because they made something and they made it great, and they of all people know what they're talking about. though i do not always agree, i do repect them