Against Pete

[Slainte]

I read the article on the Chicago Tribune web site. Is there perhaps more than one? The one I read didn't mention Pete. It was just a review of the episode.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/featur...,4355163.story

This is an indepth interview with AT in the Tribune. You probably will have to register (free) to access the article. On the main Stargate article page scroll down on the left to see the other links to cast interviews.

The one paragraph where she talks about "Grace" and moving on to Pete was disheartening.

Edited to add "Amanda Tapping: Not Stargate Barbie" interview title.

[Shipperahoy]

Thanks, I found it. And yikes! That really doesn't sound good at all. I've gotten the feeling from recent articles that AT is really fed up with the ship aspect of the show but this is by far the worst one yet. It does sound like Pete is not going anywhere for quite some time. I"m not one of the people who thinks Pete is stalker or evil incarnate or anything but I really hope that Sam and Pete don't end up together in the end. It would really detract from my overall enjoyment of the show.

[binkpmmc]

Trying again - hope this works. The Chicago Trib and the IGN articles are disheartening and I do believe that I have made the right decision to stop watching the show (I sit typing this instead of watching) – both because of the situation with Carter accepting the behaviour from pete and seeing nothing wrong with it and also because it appears that there will be fewer off-world adventures and more earth-based eps and, from other pub seen recently there will also be way too much on each of the characters love/personal lives and relationships of the week. These are not the reasons I once chose to watch so now I will choose to not watch.

The IGN article actually came at a good time for my reply to this issue on whether Ms. Tapping should be asked the hard questions (what some might perceive as controversial). In the IGN article Ms. Tapping says:

TAPPING: "Job secure? OK, good. Well, listen…" And they were very amenable to the fact that I didn't want to red flag the fact that she was a woman, and red flag that whole dynamic. I just wanted her to be an integral part of the team. And they did it. They did a great job. Certainly there's situations where her being female makes a difference, especially when we visit certain other planets, but I think for the most part they've kept it normal.
IGNFF: Has there ever been a point where you've been bored or annoyed with the character's direction, post-pilot?
TAPPING: No, not really. I mean, perhaps individual episodes where I've had to go up to them and say, "She wouldn't say this, and she wouldn't do it this way…" Or, on the day, fighting for certain things. There's the odd line or the odd situation where I'll go, "No, why do you always make it the girl?"
IGNFF: And would you like it to go higher, or are you comfortable?
TAPPING: No, I think it's good. Like I said, they're rounding her out quite nicely. She certainly has more of a sense of humor, which is my bent. All the things that I love about her – her loyalty, her strength, her commitment, and her smarts – you know, that's all still there. I get a ton of letters from women saying what a great role model she is, so I'm really cognizant of that. And I'm really aware when I get a script in which we're not portraying the character in any way, in terms of how the writers are presenting her. And like I said, they're very amenable. It's very easy to pick up the phone to call Rob Cooper and just say, "Hey Rob!" Which is great because you don't always have that. So we're very lucky.


One of the things I was going to say before I lost my last post to the AOL error world was that in recent interviews, and now in the IGN article, Ms. Tapping has indicated that she has had quite a bit of input into Carter’s story and how she has been written. Actually she indicates that it started very early on and they continue to listen to her when she makes suggestions, etc., about how Carter would or would not react or what she would or would not say. This is exactly what I was going to say about why I think she should be asked the hard questions about the pete issue and why it is not hurtful or disrespectful to ask them as long as they are phrased in a respectful manner. Ms. Tapping indicated in several interviews at the start of S7 that Mr. Cooper approached her before S7 started and about what she wanted for Carter in S7 and she gave them input about showing a more personal side of Carter. In addition, in interviews prior to and during S7 she also said she was going to play Carter more in reality. This is a major reason why I am so disappointed in the acceptance of pete’s behaviour both by the Carter character and now by Ms. Tapping and other PTB. IMO the reality is this: many of the fans who liked pete are largely anti-S/J shippers so they like pete for obvious reasons that have nothing to do with the way pete behaved in the second half of this episode. Many of the fans who dislike pete are pro-J/S shippers and dislike pete for obvious reasons and, apparently, there is a section of pro-S/Jers that have voiced their opinions in a very vehement manner (e.g. the letter Ms. Tapping refers to). Ms. Tapping in her Chicago Trib interview addresses 2 factions of fans but chooses to ignore a very legitimate completely different 3rd group of fans who dislike pete.

This 3rd group are those like me who have absolutely no stake in S/J and never really even perceived it but dislike pete anyway simply because of the belief that, in reality, a strong woman, or any woman with some self-respect, would not allow herself to be treated like a doormat without a word to the offending party. The fact that Ms. Tapping claims she wanted to emulate real life women and the experiences of real-life women as they approach a certain age is what really bothers me about this and I think it would be fair for Ms. Tapping to address the WHOLE of pete’s behaviour, and Carter’s non-reactions to it, in an open and honest fashion – not just certain, chosen aspects of the behaviour and not just point to certain contingents of the fans to justify her statements. Yes, receiving letters such as the one she refers to is bad and it is disrespectful and I can understand that it may make her angry but do not use that as an excuse to spin the pete behaviour into something it is not – which IMO is what she, and Mr. Cooper and others are attempting to do. They are ignoring many aspects of the overall second half behaviour in an effort to justify/dismiss it. IMO, this has blown up in their faces and now they are trying to dig out. Each time they open their mouths on this issue they dig a deeper hole with comments that cause more confusion and comments that actually insult some of the fans. Mr. Cooper did it recently and now, IMO, Ms. Tapping belittles some people who feel that pete’s having sat outside her house waiting to follow her AFTER he lied to her and told her he was going back to Denver was a problem, (apparently this “cracks her up”). I find this insulting as a fan and as a strong, intelligent, independent woman in that very age group Ms. Tapping claims to want to emulate with Carter.

This is also what I mean about picking and choosing what aspects of the behaviour to address, this waiting outside Carter’s house is but one VERY SMALL piece of the OVERALL LARGER picture we were shown by pete’s second half behaviour – it is not a stand-alone issue. I believe firmly that to make an open, honest judgment on the behaviour one must look at the whole. Ms. Tapping and TPTB choose to address only certain individual aspects of this behaviour separately thus making the situation worse with comments that insult/offend some fans or with comments that make very little sense in context with the entire second half of the episode dealing with Carter. Ms. Tapping has also done this picking and choosing when she states that “Sam did not know about the background check” so that is supposed to make it okay that she did not say anything to him at all about any of the rest of his behaviour? Makes no sense, at least to me.

I have gone off here but I hope this makes some sense as to why I say that asking Ms. Tapping questions of the type that I, and others, have about pete’s overall second half behaviour is appropriate. She has already answered many questions about pete, including on this site. The questions I, and others, have, are legitimate, respectful, open and honest and address the whole of pete’s second half behaviour. IMO, open, honest responses should be expected. Ms. Tapping thus far in all of her statements about pete has chosen, like other PTB, including Mr. Cooper, to focus only on certain aspects of pete’s behaviour NOT the whole (see above). I have, in previous posts here, set forth the 7-8 disrespectful, dishonest, immature, actions pete took throughout the second half.

I would also like to have Ms. Tapping answer the question of which of pete’s various behaviours/actions in the second half were “honest” and “good” so that I may better understand. Perhaps I missed something and I am willing to admit when I make a mistake so if there is some light that she, or the other PTB, can shed on the issue I would welcome it.

Finally, at IGN Ms.Tapping says: All the things that I love about her – her loyalty, her strength, her commitment, and her smarts – you know, that's all still there. I get a ton of letters from women saying what a great role model she is, so I'm really cognizant of that. One final question I have is what do I say to my daughter or to a young girl (or even to an older woman) who had Carter as a “role model” when she asks – why did he make her sad (this is when he walks out on her), why did he follow her? Why did he lie to her? I thought he said he loved her? What exactly do I say? If there is something that I can say I would like to know as Ms. Tapping, and the other PTB, have perhaps seen something in the second half that I missed so I need some help here.

Finally, finally, I promise, Ms. Tapping says at IGN with regard to pete: It's great to round her out and it makes her more accessible,have we taken anything away from her strength and integrity? Those are the things that prompt women to write me letters about how much they admire Carter.

Again, IMO, this storyline thus far and Carter’s inability to react to the overall disrespectful behaviour has damaged Carter’s strength and her integrity. I think my reasons come through above. I find it hard to admire Carter at this point as I think pete’s behaviour as a whole was so over-the-top that her acceptance of it has, for me, diminished her as a character and it has taken away portions of the strength, self respect and integrity that I saw in the character and originally drew me to the character. It really is a shame and too bad for me and for the show as they have indeed lost what was once a very loyal viewer.

Lastly, Ms. Tapping says: In the episode where Teal'c gets an apartment, Carter's relationship with Pete goes a bit further, there's more fleshing out of her personal life. Finally she's got a guy in her life who doesn't die! (laughs). I say – too bad he has to lie though.

[Zoser]

Of course they could have made it easy on themselves and just switched Pete out for Agent Barrett. He already knew about her life and they had some nice chemistry. I liked Pete (not sure what I'm doing in the anti-Pete thread ) but I can see Agent Barrett being a logical choice as Sam's boyfriend. He could have even been involved in trying to catch Osiris which would have been a nice way to bring him in.

I agree Agent Barrett would have been a much better choice and is, I think, much easier on the eyes.
No offense Pete - stick to the dog food comercials.

[Zoser]

A Chimera is two things cramed together to make a monster and voila they did just that.

[TameFarrar]

A Chimera is two things cramed together to make a monster and voila they did just that.

Well if that is the case they couldn't have chosen a better title, because with the Osiris/Sarah storyline it fit and with the Pete story it MORE than fits..... so we have a winner

[Zoser]

Well I don't give a monkey's ar$e what the PTB say. This storyline sucked. So much so, I'm carefully reading the spoilers so I can (a) miss any part of this sucky storyline and (b) only watch the episodes with a heavy Jack focus. Jack's the reason why I watch Stargate - not badly written storylines.

In any case, if it were Sam's comments about "dead boyfriends" that aroused his suspicions then it makes Sam's character look worse than bad. Rather than scotch the whole discussion with "It's classified", she prefers to play games with her men. Couple that with her moony eyes at Jack.. I'm afraid I've lost any respect for her character at all. Write you way out of that one!

Shipper pals, which eps should I miss then? And if Jack and Pit are in one episode please tell me the exact minute the git comes on the screen and leaves it.

I think I may be in the same boat. I use to admire Sam but now wonder who this character is. She seems socially inept when she is with an equal (or military superior). She can't hold a conversation with Jack or Teal'c - just kind of yammers. She seems so needy of Pete that she puts up with his questionable actions. I wonder if shippers think she is still good enough for Jack?

[yabyumpan]

Just wanted to say I totally agree with all of binkpmmc's post. I, too, fall in the '3rd option' catagory. I don't want to see s/j, I'm not interested in the love life of any of SG1 (that includes Jaffa sex gods, but that's a different post).
The main problem I had with S7 was that any character development for Sam seemed dependent on her gender/hormones and I fear it's going to be the same this year. One of the reasons I got into stargate in the first place was the inclusion of a strong, intelligent, powerful, compassionate woman who wasn't a - victim/sex object/ditzy/love interest for Lead Male/object of derision or humour or any of the other SciFi cliches that happen to female characters. All the things that seemed to attract AT to the role in the first place.
Over that past year Sam seems to played out all those roles at least once. It got to the stage in S7 where I would just FF though Sam scenes and the stuff she put up with in Chimera from Pete was just the sour icing on a very sickly cake. It also wasn't just Sam's reaction (or lack of it) to Pete's actions, but also the lack of reaction from everyone else, particually Jack( just a "what the hell is he doing here?" at the stake out as he's dialing 911 would have been enoug) and Hammond. It's not good enough, as RCC said in a recent Cult Times interview, that Sam probably gave Pete a hard time about it in the back ground but the audinece didn't get to see as there wasn't time. T.V. is a visual medium, unless I'm shown that Sam was unhappy with Pete following her to a top secret stake-out and that her C.O. and his C.O. were also not happy with Pete's actions, then I can only conclude that no one had any problems with it and in effect, condoned his actions. They had enough time to show a diabetic-coma-inducing reunion between Sam and Pete, complete with soppy looks and 'romantic' photo's, so it seems to me that it's just not true that we weren't shown Sam showing Pete she was unhappy about his actions because of time, rather it was a writing/directing decision showing that TPTB didn't have any problems with it. I get the impression that untill people started to complain about it they really thought that what Pete did was ok.

I'd like to think that the destruction of the wonderful, strong character of Major/Doctor Samantha Carter over the pass year doesn't have anything to do woth the fact that Stargate now has an all male writing/directing crew but I'm struggling to come up with any other explaination for a character who could once have been held up as a feminist icon to now have, in many ways, more resemblence to Doris Day. We hear that the 'boys at the Bridge' love Sam and I fear that may be true. They are creating their 'ideal woman' and what a non-threatening, compliant, vunerable and adoring creature she is.

[sueKay]

I couldn't agree with you more. TPTB (unfortunately with AT's help) have turned Carter into just another Sci fi female.

I too feel that Sam's better and more believable the way she was pre season seven, and I feel that Pete is just more bad news for her.

Also, now with Pete proposing (Icky ring pic), it does look like AT has got her wish.

AT can't look at her character with the same objectivity as we, the viewers, can. She needs to listen to the fans.

[aAnubiSs]

I don't want ANY S/J-ship, but that doesn't mean I wanna hear Sam talking about Pete non-stop. Just let him be his BF and leave it at that.

[binkpmmc]

Thanks Yabyumpan and others who have expressed some agreement or support for what I have said about the Carter of second half S7 going into S8. (I am glad that my posts make sense - sometimes I get going on a tangent and I think perhaps some of my points may be lost).

I do not say the things I say about pete, Carter, Ms. Tapping or TPTB to be disrespectful or hurtful or anything, else. I am saying them as a true loyal fan of Stargate who, over the years, found a soft spot for Carter and she became one of the favorite characters on the show for me. I did admire her strength, her honesty, her integrity, her dignity and her self-respect. As a lead-female role, of which there are not nearly enough, Carter (and Ms. Tapping with her portrayl) were doing justice to women in the 21st century. Unfortunately, her acceptance of pete's actions has severely damaged that character for me and Ms. Tappings, and other PTB, justifications/dismissals of the behaviour as outlined in previous posts here have helped to cement that damage.

The photos from Affinity do not bode well either but in my gut I have a feeling she says "no" but that's just my gut feeling. Keep in mind, for me, this is not about simply "getting rid" of pete - to be honest I wouldn't mind at all if she said yes but only after we see the a$$ kicking and apology from pete - for me this is about Carter's self respect and dignity as a strong, independent, intelligent woman who does not want to be defined by her relationships. IMO, because of the damage that has been done to the character's self respect, dignity and integrity as a result of her accpetance of pete's behaviour I cannot see any of Carter's character in the same light as it is now tainted for me.

Finally, as I, and others have said, keep it off screen - talk about it, mention it once in a while but stop wasting screen time on any of their love lives. Sacrifices looks like there will be a good bit of Teal'c's love life with Ishta then there's Teal'c's romance of the week in Affinity, along with the pete crap, and it just does not bode well for the Stargate SG1 I knew and enjoyed so that's one of the reasons why I choose not to watch anymore.

I have a request: if, along the way this season, there is an a$$ kicking from Carter to pete, an apology from pete to Carter and maybe even a reprimand from the SGC will someone please let me know as I may then be able to resume watching with that episode to see how they handled it and decide whether to continue watching because to be honest I would like to watch the show again. Somehow, though, based on what we have heard and seen I do not think I will be hearing any such news from anyone . . . . sigh.

[jjj2046]

Add me to the fans that aren't particularily interested in episodes dealing with ANY of the teams personal lives. That includes Teal'c's and Daniel's and Jack's. These people have made a commitment to something that almost does preclude them having much in the way of personal lives. They never should have made Pete privy to the workings of the SGC. I would have preferred he die a noble death.

If they feel compelled to introduce a little sex - let the crew fool around with aliens occasionally - at least that wouldn't involve a security compromise.

[Slainte]

to be honest I would like to watch the show again. Somehow, though, based on what we have heard and seen I do not think I will be hearing any such news from anyone . . . . sigh.

Do what I do, close or cover your eyes during the bad parts and hum the Stargate theme. Then, when we get back to the real program, open your eyes, stop humming and watch. It really is possible to block out the offensive bits and watch the rest. I speak with experience.

[yabyumpan]

I did admire her strength, her honesty, her integrity, her dignity and her self-respect. As a lead-female role, of which there are not nearly enough, Carter (and Ms. Tapping with her portrayl) were doing justice to women in the 21st century. Unfortunately, her acceptance of pete's actions has severely damaged that character for me and Ms. Tappings, and other PTB, justifications/dismissals of the behaviour as outlined in previous posts here have helped to cement that damage. .......

- for me this is about Carter's self respect and dignity as a strong, independent, intelligent woman who does not want to be defined by her relationships. IMO, because of the damage that has been done to the character's self respect, dignity and integrity as a result of her accpetance of pete's behaviour I cannot see any of Carter's character in the same light as it is now tainted for me.

Fin.

Well put and that's the major problem for me, the damage that has been done to a once strong and wonderful character. Sadly, I don't see any way that TPTB can redeem the character now (at least in my eyes). While hopefully her interactions with the rest of SG1 will be as good as it sounds in 'New Order' (I'm in the uk so won't get to see it till sept), always in the background will be the thought that how ever brave & strong & intelligent she is at work, she's still pretty much the 'little woman' at home. If she's let him get away with the crap he pulled in 'Chimera' what else would she let him get away with? Hopefully the rest of S8 will be good enough to distract me from having to think too much about Sam/Pete although I share your fears about spoilers for up comming episodes in relation to the team's love life. Please, I'm watching a SciFi show, even if the budget's down this year, surely that doesn't have to mean turning it into a soap. The budget for the first year was less than they have now and yet they managed to produce pretty good SciFi, can we have more of that again please and less 'days of our lives'

[stargate barbie]

i think at this point all i can say in reference to the pete !crap! and affinity is;
AAAAAAAARRRRRGGGGHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1
i CANNOT believe they are actually doing this to such a great show. if we felt like watching something like this we would be watching sex and the city, or something like it thats actually bad.
as if its not bad enough that they are trying to sabotage the show by devoting so much time to this trivial rubbish, they're actually doing it by using one of the worst characters they have ever invented (in terms of how they treat other main characters) and trying to pawn him off as a great person, and all because some of them can't admit they were wrong, or made a mistake.

unless i'm wrong here and they actually have a master plan about all of this, in which the atrocious television they've thrown at us, and presumeably i hate to say, are about to throw at us, will all make perfect sense at some future time? please? anyone?

pete is probably the most hated man on stargate at the moment, and i do NOT mean hated in the kinsey/maybourne/mckay, we love to hate them and we're supposed to kind of way.
anyone else i know in RL who has seen chimera hated pete and how that episode was done. and these guys are not shippers either. in fact i know i guy who will not even speak of it, and just seems to be very disappointed about the whole thing and the direction the show is going as a result. when i told him that pete was going to be in at least one other episode, he just seemed so deflated, and has some serious reservations about the future of the show now, as do i.

i typed out an even longer post about my sheer resentment of the entire pete related storyline (ie how its being handled more than anything), which really probably belonged here, so i don't think i have the energy to say much more. but i will reafirm my thoughts on how i feel that pete is so degrading to sam and her entire character, she deseverves so much better than that, and we deserve to not have to see it onscreen too. i think we've been loyal enough to at least get this. i don't recall anyone on the show recieving such a strong negative feedback, and it seems that TPTB have determined that the best way to deal with such a strong reaction is to bring back the hated character... repeatedly! FCOL! this is ridiculous.

hopefully they had a master plan before the episode aired. hopefully the plan is a good one. and hopefully they have more respect for the fans than it appears they do, going by this pete craziness. if not, they are about to lose one loyal fan, at least. never thought i'd say that about stargate.