Anti-S9 thread. For complaints and misgivings ONLY.

[DarkQuee1]

BTW, I find it amusing that a number of the anti-S/J shippers seem to be looking forward to season 9; after all, without Jack, we can't have Sam and Jack, right?. A word of warning: the PTB are obviously trying to bring in the Farscape fans. And Farscape was very, very shippy.


J.

[ShadowMaat]

Actually, I'm NOT looking forward to S9 and I am rabidly anti-ship. In case folks hadn't noticed. I've been trying to ignore the pro-S9 people because I can't fathom what there is to look forward to and I have a hard time resisting the urge to scream "What is wrong with you people?!" so I stay out of it. Therefore, I don't know what the mix is, but I've seen some other anti-ship folks grumbling about the upcoming season.

[Osiris-RA]

Here's something else... and I'll probably get sniped for it, but so be it.

If RDA wants to leave, more power to him. I'll bid him a fond farewell and wish him all the best. But I think he should actually LEAVE instead of waffling about. This three or four eps thing is, IMO, kind of ridiculous. Either you're gone or you're not. You can't have it both ways and trying to... please everyone only makes the situation worse. Just say, "It's OVER." and walk away. If you keep coming back, if you keep exhibiting signs of weakness, then the Ones in Charge will continue to exploit you, digging the knife in deeper and deeper.

And you KNOW (or I know, anyway) that the rest of the season will suffer for that handful of eps. All attention will go into making RDA's eps as spectacular (by their definition) as possible and the rest of the season can more or less go to hell.

Maybe that's an overly negative way of interpreting things, but if the past couple of seasons are anything to judge by, then the Jack-centric eps will be the best of the season. Relatively speaking. Or they'll be the flashiest, anyway.

I'd rather see the producers free to concentrate on OTHER things and on expanding things in new directions rather than "saving up" and waiting to expound all kinds of coolness on the Jack-centric eps because they know that's what the fans want.

Negative, bitter, pessimistic, but that's my outlook on the situation.

Huh. I don't think it's negative, bitter, or pessimistic. It's true, he shouldn't be dangling himself on this string for us "Am I coming back? Maybe I'm not coming back? Do you want me to come back? I don't really feel like coming back" It gets kind of annoying. His humour feels forced now-a-days, and there's just no body else with that unique Jack-esque humour.

Together, The SG team made me laugh. Now all I can do is cry. No other Sci Fi show has made me laugh as much as StarGate did - maybe X-files, but besides that, no other show comes close. Teh mythology was superb - and so falsifeid at sometimes it made me laugh ever harder. Please, StarGate, don't go out with some political ****. end as you began, fresh, legendary and unique.

Even If they did get a replacement, he/or she wouldnt really take the place of Jack. I was excited when I heard about StareGate Atlantis. I though it was a whole new chapter, a fresh page with maybe the same actors in the even cooler setting of Atlantis. I was really thinking of Man from Atlantis, but when I saw what the show was really about I thought, well, that's it for me, at least I can buy the videos. What would make it less bittersweet for me is if they incorperated actors I've seen before with the new cast. Heck, If Keith Hamilton Cobb was there, I'd be more enthusistic to watch it.

But I think when stuff like this comes up, its a sure omen that the end of the show approaches. It was a good 8 years. Writers? Lets not hobble into the future with wooden humor and tired plots. Let the actors find new venues in TV, or movies and let StarGate close with it's legend and respect intact.

[Dani347]

BTW, I find it amusing that a number of the anti-S/J shippers seem to be looking forward to season 9; after all, without Jack, we can't have Sam and Jack, right?. A word of warning: the PTB are obviously trying to bring in the Farscape fans. And Farscape was very, very shippy.


J.

And, a lot of anti-S/J shippers are against season 9. And, while some (I won't presume to state a lot) people are against ship in general, there are some that are opposed to Sam and Jack specifically.

[Hathor999]

Completely different set of circumstances, as far as I'm concerned. For starters, MS actually lives in Vancouver, so he's more readily available. And second of all, the writers don't try and force each and every single episode of the show to revolve around Daniel, whereas with Jack- especially in his reduced capacity- they try to jam twice as much of him as possible into every ep he's in instead of allowing it to develop naturally. That's how I see it, anyway. Granted, S8 has been a bit better in that regard (at least in the few eps I've seen), but if there are only going to be 3-4 eps, I can just picture TPTB going ALL OUT on that handful of eps and screwing the rest of the season in the process. You still have some faith in their abilities whereas I expect the worst based on my experiences with watching the show.

Don´t think that the difference will be so big.
Okay this three little episodes (if they will ever happen...I still doubt it. When Jack will be back than will it be for the first episode for one very short scene. It will be going IMO like:
"Good bye kids I will retire/have a new job. That´s MM, your new boss. Be nice to him" end of the scene and that will be the last thing we will ever see from Jack)will maybe have Jack front and center.
What I would enjoy very much. But the other 17 episodes will be without him. Enough time for concentrating on the shinning new cult stars!

And I don´t know if you know the season 7 DVD commentarys but one of them hinted that there was cutted many RDA scenes in season 7 out (a good example was "Space Race": there were at least one surprisingly amusing scene with Jack and Daniel cutted out but released later on the Sci Fi channel web side...but the PTB said that the silly announcers must be included because the episode was to short!?!? And if I interpreting the commentary for "Fallout" right than happend that more than one time in season 8.

So I have doubts that Jack will be front and center when the boys at bridge have a chance to play with their (young and sexy) new toys!

[Dani347]

True. And I remember the outcry, reaction and actions that followed that occurrence. Pot and kettle? This is quite a mild protest/criticism by comparison.

Can I assume you're talking about Daniel, perhaps? And, what does fan outcry have to do with what tptb should do for the show in the event that the actor doesn't want to do the job anymore? Because I'm talking about tptb (and since I mentioned them all over that post, it was quite clear that I was talking about them). If MS had said no, no more, no Thor voice, no Abyss, no Changeling, no Full Circle, tptb would have written the show according to those lines.

What pot? What kettle? (yes, I know what the saying means.) You brought up fan outcry in response to a post that was so very obviously about the fact that other ptb have managed to work around losing a lead (and lead as in One Who Gets Their Name Above the Title something MS never did) actor. So, if you want to make this about a tit for tat these people did this when MS left and these people are doing this because RDA might leave, you go right ahead. But, remember, not one bit of it came from me.

[Osiris-RA]

Wow. Poor Jack.

[Easter Lily]

If Claudia Black is an talented actress than her talents are wasted on a character like Vala.

I see no reason for being gratefull. Had TPTB managed it to create a female character who is human being anstead of a cheap sex-fantasy than I would be gratefull but so I´m far away from feeling gratefull! And that the episode was incredible bad written don´t made it better. If this is the template for season 9...

And the MOST BRILLIANT TV SHOW EVER MADE is still BABYLON 5.

I didn't mind Farscape... it started off as something for children and later matured into something with interesting possibilities... and then started to worry me with all the sexual stuff... then our local station rudely gave it the untimely chop...
I liked Claudia Black and Ben Browder and have nothing against their ability to contribute to Stargate but I'm taking it all in my stride as well. As far as I'm concerned, they're decent actors and I'm happy to see how they fit into the Stargate universe but hardly think that two people alone can "save" Stargate. (even if they have saved the universe from time to time )
I'm not anti-season 9 (although I worry about episodes like "Prometheus Unbound") in so far as it doesn't become a stumbling block to Atlantis. I look forward to each episode of Atlantis with renewed eagerness, something I've never felt about SG-1, as much as I enjoy it. I have nagging doubts about the wisdom of using the Ancient arc in both shows but am willing to keep an open mind about this. As to whether, members of SG-1 can be translated into Atlantis, I, too, have grave doubts about this...

Personally I think sci-fi shows should have a set arc the way B5 did. It makes for much more exciting viewing and it forces the narrative to maintain its focus. I liked the continuity in B5 (Atlantis seems to have adopted some of this as well) and the use of flashforwards all throughout the narrative. Quite ingenious. Also having a set arc means that there is none of that proverbial flogging the dead horse. Once a story is told... that's it... Really, why prolong the inevitable? Admittedly, B5 is a much more philosophical series as well and the dialogue was par excellence. It also didn't focus on tech as much as Stargate does.

I think one of the hardest things for anyone to do is to know when to stop. Often it is easier to begin something and to keep it going. Everyone's comfortable and there's a nice sense of predictability. Financial reasons aside, I can see why TPTB would like to keep the show on the road. And it's not just them either... the actors seem to have a hard time leaving as well.

[Shipperahoy]

I don't think that RDA leaving the show can even remotely be compared to when MS left. We know exactly why RDA is leaving the show, he's made it abundantly and publicly clear. TPTB have known this was coming seeing as how he's wanted to leave since season 6 but kept getting talked into returning as the show continued to climb in the ratings. There were more questions when MS left as to the whys and hows which were never fully answered to everyones satisfaction but he's back and HOORAY for that. I don't think bringing up past dissatisfactions have anything to do with season 9. Will season 9 fail miserably withougt RDA? That's definately a possibility. As is the possiblity that BB could catch on like a wildfire and the ratings could soar. I guess we'll see. Personally I've got some serious reservations about season 9 as it seems to me that they are changing it a bit too radically and there's the fact that I love Jack and don't know if I could enjoy the show without him there. But I'll give it a try.

[ShadowMaat]

They're changing it radically, they're changing it rapidly and I still say they're doing it all for the wrong reasons.

You should want to continue the show because you still have great stories left to tell, NOT because you want more money and think it'd be cool to match/beat X-Files's record.

The stories are (IMO) getting feebler, the cast is fractionalized and all of the "fix-ups" I've been hearing about sound like they're going to make things worse instead of better.

I wish Ben Browder all the best with S9, but I also feel incredibly sorry for him. He's going into an even worse situation than Corin was in back in S6. Not only is Ben "replacing" the penultimate member of the team/show, but he's doing it at a time when the show is (IMO) an absolute mess and I have a bad feeling that if things DO go wrong, he's going to be blamed for it. And that just isn't fair.

[Hathor999]

I didn't mind Farscape... it started off as something for children and later matured into something with interesting possibilities... and then started to worry me with all the sexual stuff... then our local station rudely gave it the untimely chop...
I liked Claudia Black and Ben Browder and have nothing against their ability to contribute to Stargate but I'm taking it all in my stride as well. As far as I'm concerned, they're decent actors and I'm happy to see how they fit into the Stargate universe but hardly think that two people alone can "save" Stargate. (even if they have saved the universe from time to time )
I'm not anti-season 9 (although I worry about episodes like "Prometheus Unbound") in so far as it doesn't become a stumbling block to Atlantis. I look forward to each episode of Atlantis with renewed eagerness, something I've never felt about SG-1, as much as I enjoy it. I have nagging doubts about the wisdom of using the Ancient arc in both shows but am willing to keep an open mind about this. As to whether, members of SG-1 can be translated into Atlantis, I, too, have grave doubts about this...

Personally I think sci-fi shows should have a set arc the way B5 did.

I watched the first season of Farscape complet and many episodes from season two and three before I gave up. I think that Claudia Black´s Aeryn was so far okay (very cliched and a little bit wooden -especially compared with a complicated character like Susan Ivanova from Babylon 5) but still okay.
But I had big problems with Ben Bowder. In season one he was not so bad but
after it he seemed to think that if a little bit crazy is a little bit funny than must very crazy be VERY funny. IMO a big fault. I was very fast tired to watch him jumping around and screaming like mad in almost every episode.

And I think that MGM had him hired not despite how he played John Crichton but because of it. I suppose that they think that this from of crazyness will be a good replacement for the typical Jack humour. But they forget that Jack´s humour was in the last couple of seasons already for some fans too much.

So I don´t looking forward to see him as the new colonel.

And I have already said that I think having Vala working as a part of SG 1 is IMO very wrong. As a villian she is maybe tolerable but as one of the heroes...Thank you but NO!

Another reason why I don´t like the idea of season 9 is because of the chemistry between the actors: If you have all four of them in one episode (and I mean really in it...not only some scenes edited together so that it seemed as if the actors were to the same time in the same room) working together they are still able to give a good performance. Than is RDA still Jack, MS still Daniel, AT still Sam, CJ still Teal´c. But when we have them not working as team than the actors (and I think MS is in season 8 the best example for it) seem not to be able to remember whom they playing and give very often a lacklustre performance which reminds IMO much more on their convention appearances than on a real Stargate episode! Some fans seem to like that but for me is it just annoying.

When Jack is gone in season 8 (and AT will be only in 15 episodes...and we don´t know how big her role in this episodes will be. I think there is a reason why Ben Bowders character is the new colonel...) than I doubt that we will see Daniel, Sam and Teal´c very often. Even if their actors are on the screen.

[Dani347]

You should want to continue the show because you still have great stories left to tell, NOT because you want more money and think it'd be cool to match/beat X-Files's record.

True. Who the heck cares if they beat X-Files. what do they get out of it? Some mention in a trivia book no one will read? A spot on VH-1's list of "Most Awesomely Long Sci-Fi Shows"? Some other poor sap of a show staying on for the mere sake of beating them?

[ShadowMaat]

Has it actually been SAID that Vala will be a hero and/or part of the team for a while? She isn't going to continue being the ambiguous entity she was in PU?

[Hathor999]

Has it actually been SAID that Vala will be a hero and/or part of the team for a while? She isn't going to continue being the ambiguous entity she was in PU?

If I remember it right than had Robert Cooper said something about that she will working together with SG 1.

[ShadowMaat]

If I remember it right than had Robert Cooper said something about that she will working together with SG 1.

She was working together with Daniel in PU. So it doesn't necessarily hold that she'll suddenly be "good" in S9.

Maybourne has "worked together" with Jack a few times and he isn't exactly free of ulterior motives.

I'd say wait and see. At least on that regard.