Announcement

**Buba uognarf** · 20 July 2007, 12:31 PM

Immhotep! :O

welcome back my friend!

**immhotep** · 20 July 2007, 01:09 PM

I have SO much to catch up on, ive read the Asgard thing, im going to read JCW in a bit, erm the Total conversion mod was always an option and you can use any of the ships to fill the gaps lol.
Zake nice to have you back, im glad your alive. Jotnar may be used.
Im going to make a big post in the morning, its very nice to be back lol!

**Einherjar** · 20 July 2007, 02:04 PM

I would like to include this ship into the 3.0 fleet.

Spoiler:

**immhotep** · 21 July 2007, 04:58 AM

s I like it

make it smaller, even Connie and Gaia which are the largest ships built by us, with all the full military resources done go too far beyond 1000m, make it something like 600m and it would be fine.

Now for a long post and a technological break down of the adnihlo. I have two ship designs, to follow soon after ive read HP lol.

Contents:
- Pulse energy cannons (P.E.C's)
- subspace jump drives
- Hyperspace Jamming
- Hyperspace gravity bombs

These technologies are WIP for the most part but i have given a good break down of most of them as you will soon see

P.E.C's; Purple energy bolts, they are light based lasers with a yeild of 100GW per shot, they are very powerful. A twin array of PEC's can take out a leviathon class ships in less than a minute. Even on our most powerful ships a single hit takes off up to 10% of its shield power, most lower classes are completely defenceless. Tactics for dealing with these weapons are so far limited, avoiding them completely is the best option but they have lightly advacned targetting computers and this is a unrealistic option given the frequency with which combat agaisnt the Adnhilo will happen. A Recent development has shown that because they are light based ie they are purple indicating a visible light frequency means that we can alter our own shield arrays to block out the visible light part of the laser. This diffuses the power of the adnihlo weapons considerably and reduces the power of the weapons. However even with VL filtering the weapons are still more powerful than any beam type weapon since the Ori. More powerful than the aschen, wriath, goauld, and Asgard. Meaning that we are still in for one hell of a fight, but filtering VL helps considerably by taking down the Adnihlo in to the range of enemy we can deal with. Without VL filtering these lasers would decimate our fleet in an extreamely short space of time. Unfortunately the Aschen, Jaffa and others do nowhave the luxury of Asgard modifcations to our own shields and therefore cannot filter the light, a single hatak it taken down in 2 hits and a Peramen class in 5.

Subspace jump drives- instead of Hyperspace the Adnihlo use subspace for travel. Its a different but works on the same principle. Hyperspace was used by many long after subspace, and was used as a transport medium long before hyperspace was a widespread concept (even the ancients used hyperspace rarely after thier first attempts were unreliable, see WW storyline) it was used by the stargates in a similar fashion to how the Adnihlo use it. Adnilho jump drives work by concentrating alot of energy for one instant jump, by using the same principle as a stargate they produce a wormhole, through subspace within which thier ships flies. The energy requird to instantly jump a massive ship like a grace warships is incalcuable, which is why the Adnihlo have two methods of travelling in subspace. Larger ships are forced to fly within a subspace bubble, protecting them from subspace and the effects of the wormhole. Smaller ships can go instantly, they surround them selfs not with a subspace bubble but with an energy field, thier drives accelerate all the particles in the ship to light speed, converting them to energy and sending through the wormhole instantly. Its like a giant supergate built within a ships instead of outside of one. They convert thier ships from energy to matter and store it within the jumpdrive, the drive then flies through the wormhole and when reaching the destination the ships rematerialise out of the drive. This can work to our advantage because we can plot and chart subspace anomolies just like we can track gate addresses. If we can time our arrival right we can plant devices which will destroy the practically harmless jumpdrives before they rematerialise thier cargo.
The history of subspace vs hyperspace is a complex one; when the allience discovered how to fuly utilise the properities of hyperspace they created a technological void within the galaxy between themselves and all those who had been using subspace for travel. All travel besides a few unreliable craft had used subspace, the stargates, ring platforms all of the pre-allience warships. It was all based on subspace. When they created the technological void the adnihlo developed weapons which would cripple the widdening void between them. The Adnilho stayed with subspace, they were masters of its usage and in many ways were more competent at using subspace than anyone else.
Hyperspace jamming technology - The Adnihlo developed this technology a short time after they began to research hyperspace, in order to devise weaknesses in it to use against the allience with whom they were at war. They discovered that when certain bodies or forms of radiation were present hyperdrives would not open up, this was part of a program the ancients developed to analyse in real time the effects on opening a window, it was discovered that hyperspace, unlike subspace was vunerable to the effects of outside influences. While subspace was completely isolated from real space, hyperspace isnt, there is a bleed through and hyperspace can be hurt effectively.
To protect hyperspace all hyperdrives ever built have a base coding structure which states that no window can open unless the coding checks that its safe, ie that there is no radiation or phycial bodies present that could damage the fabric of hyperspace.
The adnihlo jamming technology reaches far beyond our own knowledge of how hyperspace and hyperdrives work, all of our hyperdrives are copies of Asgard, ancient, Goauld and orii hyperdrives, all of which have a base coding which we also have within our, which had been given to us by the Asgard freely in a package which inlcuded hyperspace waypoint markers and course plotting software, it was a great gift but within it came the burden of history that even the oldest races were not famiar with anymore. The Adnihlo jamming technology artificialy recreates or fools the hyperdrives in to not opening under the pretense that something in space nearby will damage the hyperspace fabric. Its old knowledge and in many cases is irrelevent, the codes were put in during a time of exploration and caution but today even in the midsts of a battle which is perfectly safe from the effects of a black hole, still rings clear. The adnihlo know that we are using this and have used it to our disadvantage.
Hyperspace gravity bombs - gravity is one of the few things that can rip apart hyperspace quite literally, while under normal circumstances the bleed through of Hyperspace and real space filters out gravity entirely in the presece of a black hole or a planet (which is wy its dangerous to open a hyperspace window close to an atmosphere) hyperspace is very vunerable is a window is opened.
Because the Adnilho do not use hyperspace for travel they are quite content with damaging it, preventing passage to certain areas, planting bombs on known hyperspace corridors laid down long ago by dead races. They are so old they know all the trick in the trade, they have been around so long they know exactly how and when and why to hit each and every member of the allience, they fought the allience for hundreds of thousands of years and now that war has ricoshayed back down to us as products of the allience.
The Adnilho use a hyperdrive fitted with a artifical black hole generators (which is also a primary source of power) to chart a course to their target and then switch on their warhead which creates a gravity well in hyperspace sucking all in a nearby area. The warhead does not produce a full black hole, doing so would be against even he adnihlos morality but it doe create thousands of micro singularies which combine to do enough damage over a very short period as a larger black hole would do in a similar period without the nausiating hangover of having created a force which could completely destroy the fabric of the universe. The adnihlo are not irresponsible in the knowledge they possess, they are incredile intelligent and are not sluggish or stupid. They know the effects of thier actions and use this to cause just enough damage to thier target for thier plans to move forward and not any more. They are for the most part not a greedy race, they do not want to destroy the universe for the sake of destroying it, they do however want to rule all those in it and that quite frankly is the worst part. The Adnihlo will not lash out for one giant destroy ing the universe type finale, they will do surgical strikes. It is the rouge adnihlo who do not folow the collectives plans that we need to be worried about, the adniho are methodical and make the Aschen's accounting department vibe look like they are 3 year old todlers. They can be predictable but it takes more time to get to know them than we really have and we will really need our allies and information about the first war to really get us through this.
Archgate has been commanded to research and find out about the Pre-dakaran MW galaxy with specifc interest with how, why, who, what and when the adnilho and the allience came to blows. The adhnhilo are a mystery as old as the galaxy and to fight them we need alot of knowledge about them, a race as old as life itself cannot be comprehended by us, our limited perception of time is as remote to the adnihlo as the simpsons are; they will fight us for the rest of time unless we beat them first. Right now, we will need everything we have to stop them from taking this galaxy by force in a very short space of time.

I need advice on alot of this but its a good start IMO, i have a WIP battle for the beginging of the war.

**ManiacMike** · 21 July 2007, 09:03 AM

welcome back immhotep

Did you get a chance to read my Asgard story yet?

**immhotep** · 21 July 2007, 10:00 AM

Yes i have read it and its a great storyline and it follows and ties in to this larger picture that we are developing throughthe fleets about the overall development of the universe, specificly the early universes. The further forward in time this fleet goes the more we seem to learn about the very origins of the things we are protecting. The more the fleet grows the more we strip away the layers and reveal that the ancients werent the first ones, they arent the oldest race ever to exist. There were powers that rivalled them in the early universe and even they had helping hands at the begining. I am really enjoying this part of the fleet universe because its the kind of thing i helped develop for Genesis, except at this point i was fixed on developing the allience universe and this fleet goes even farther back in time. however you have dashed on a couple of my hopes for introducing a race from genesis which served a similar role to the Asgard, but in reverse. It was the Asgard flaoting through space saved by an advanced race and were offered refuge, not the other way around. I think my race has a part to play in the fleet either way, because the tie in with the asgard was rather vague to begin with unless you know all the in's and outs of the genesis universe which isnt relevent here.
The Adnihlo are one of the few surviving origional races that existed in the MW, and they only survived because the TDF protected them from the Dakra wave and the plague and so forth. When they awoke they are still rife with hatred because as far as they are concerned the war with the Allience has only recently ended which is another problem for us altogether. They are going to be using knowledge, tactics and technology that havent been heard of for million and millions of years and we have no point of reference whatsoever for that technology at the moment, the are none that survive from that point in history and the scattered fragments which tell of a great war are all we have to go on. I doubt even the Ascended ancient recall that period and the Asgard knowledge base, the Atlantis database and even the Ancient repositories are likely too young in relation to the adnihlo to have full breakdowns of the war. I am really going to enjoy the Adnihlo war, as i started to write in camp i just saw so much potential which i hadent realised, at first i thought grace aliens seriously cool and powerful a great backstory has been put forward but as i wrote it dawned on me that we really have to think outside the box because they havent been seen for millions of years and so our warfare and everything we know about really is completely useless. The only point of reference we might have is the paradox community but they are not going to be of too much help because they were around at the hieght of the allience power which was after the Adnilhlo war. The war was over the formation of the allience and was actually a catalyst for it. When the adnihlo were refused entry as the most powerful race in the MW (a title that could very well be theirs at that point) in contrast to the ancients ( a powerful and equal race to the adnihlo) they went to war and that was what consolidated the allience power, their first act as a collective was a war and the sealing in time of the adnihlo. The Paradox are post that period and so its really going to be interesting to see how people write and portray the Adnihlo and the races that exist during that period, Perhaps the Adnihlo were locked away with other races from that period as well. The Allience decided that time itself was the galactic prison and condemded all they feared to the depths of time. We could discover lots of old races coming back in to the fray, a mass breakout of allience prisoners that wreack havoc. The adnihlo create an army from the period it knows best all wanting to survive in a new universe.

Man i sound so phrophetic, its weird, you go camping and get back and go all whoosy, im buzzing with ideas, its a realy reset button going back to basics!

**JoNzA** · 21 July 2007, 10:10 AM

sounds cool immhotep

correct me if I am wrong but is the adnihlo a completly new race or something like that?

**immhotep** · 21 July 2007, 10:18 AM

Ill correct you

The adnihlo are not entirely new they are in the show but untouched. Do you remember the season 7 episode "grace" and the giant purple ship Sam gets trapped near within a gas cloud. They are the Adnihlo, otherwise known as the Grace aliens. While they were not mentioned again we have thrown together uitea cool profile for them and renamed them as the adnihlo.

PS I may be making a new sig soon, for the fleet

**JoNzA** · 21 July 2007, 10:35 AM

alright I read about them on the website but I did not know that we reffer to them as the adnihlo until now lol I mayby have ship design for them

sig for 3.0?

**Buba uognarf** · 21 July 2007, 11:55 AM

Originally posted by immhotep View Post

s I like it

make it smaller, even Connie and Gaia which are the largest ships built by us, with all the full military resources done go too far beyond 1000m, make it something like 600m and it would be fine.

Now for a long post and a technological break down of the adnihlo. I have two ship designs, to follow soon after ive read HP lol.

Contents:
- Pulse energy cannons (P.E.C's)
- subspace jump drives
- Hyperspace Jamming
- Hyperspace gravity bombs

These technologies are WIP for the most part but i have given a good break down of most of them as you will soon see

P.E.C's; Purple energy bolts, they are light based lasers with a yeild of 100GW per shot, they are very powerful. A twin array of PEC's can take out a leviathon class ships in less than a minute. Even on our most powerful ships a single hit takes off up to 10% of its shield power, most lower classes are completely defenceless. Tactics for dealing with these weapons are so far limited, avoiding them completely is the best option but they have lightly advacned targetting computers and this is a unrealistic option given the frequency with which combat agaisnt the Adnhilo will happen. A Recent development has shown that because they are light based ie they are purple indicating a visible light frequency means that we can alter our own shield arrays to block out the visible light part of the laser. This diffuses the power of the adnihlo weapons considerably and reduces the power of the weapons. However even with VL filtering the weapons are still more powerful than any beam type weapon since the Ori. More powerful than the aschen, wriath, goauld, and Asgard. Meaning that we are still in for one hell of a fight, but filtering VL helps considerably by taking down the Adnihlo in to the range of enemy we can deal with. Without VL filtering these lasers would decimate our fleet in an extreamely short space of time. Unfortunately the Aschen, Jaffa and others do nowhave the luxury of Asgard modifcations to our own shields and therefore cannot filter the ligt, a single hatak it taken down in 2 hits and a Peramen class in 5.

Ok it's good but don't call them lasers. I don't like the idea of lasers in stargate and the weapons the grace ship used weren't lasers. Call them anything but lasers. We can either make their weapons pure power weapons or exotic weapons which are mainly geared towards draining shields. I'd go for
option 1 personally. Also i'm not if their weapons would be more powerful than the most powerful Wraith weapons anyway and then there's the Reapers but we'll say they are.

Subspace jump drives- instead of Hyperspace the Adnihlo use subspace for travel. Its a different but works on the same principle. Hyperspace was used by many long after subspace, and was used as a transport medium long before hyperspace was a widespread concept (even the ancients used hyperspace rarely after thier first attempts were unreliable, see WW storyline) it was used by the stargates in a similar fashion to how the Adnihlo use it. Adnilho jump drives work by concentrating alot of energy for one instant jump, by using the same principle as a stargate they produce a wormhole, through subspace within which thier ships flies. The energy requird to instantly jump a massive ship like a grace warships is incalcuable, which is why the Adnihlo have two methods of travelling in subspace. Larger ships are forced to fly within a subspace bubble, protecting them from subspace and the effects of the wormhole. Smaller ships can go instantly, they surround them selfs not with a subspace bubble but with an energy field, thier drives accelerate all the particles in the ship to light speed, converting them to energy and sending through the wormhole instantly. Its like a giant supergate built within a ships instead of outside of one. They convert thier ships from energy to matter and store it within the jumpdrive, the drive then flies through the wormhole and when reaching the destination the ships rematerialise out of the drive. This can work to our advantage because we can plot and chart subspace anomolies just like we can track gate addresses. If we can time our arrival right we can plant devices which will destroy the practically harmless jumpdrives before they rematerialise thier cargo.
The history of subspace vs hyperspace is a complex one; when the allience discovered how to fuly utilise the properities of hyperspace they created a technological void within the galaxy between themselves and all those who had been using subspace for travel. All travel besides a few unreliable craft had used subspace, the stargates, ring platforms all of the pre-allience warships. It was all based on subspace. When they created the technological void the adnihlo developed weapons which would cripple the widdening void between them. The Adnilho stayed with subspace, they were masters of its usage and in many ways were more competent at using subspace than anyone else.

I don't like the idea of using subspace they're practically the same thing i think so it doesn't really make sense to me.

Hyperspace jamming technology - The Adnihlo developed this technology a short time after they began to research hyperspace, in order to devise weaknesses in it to use against the allience with whom they were at war. They discovered that when certain bodies or forms of radiation were present hyperdrives would not open up, this was part of a program the ancients developed to analyse in real time the effects on opening a window, it was discovered that hyperspace, unlike subspace was vunerable to the effects of outside influences. While subspace was completely isolated from real space, hyperspace isnt, there is a bleed through and hyperspace can be hurt effectively.
To protect hyperspace all hyperdrives ever built have a base coding structure which states that no window can open unless the coding checks that its safe, ie that there is no radiation or phycial bodies present that could damage the fabric of hyperspace.
The adnihlo jamming technology reaches far beyond our own knowledge of how hyperspace and hyperdrives work, all of our hyperdrives are copies of Asgard, ancient, Goauld and orii hyperdrives, all of which have a base coding which we also have within our, which had been given to us by the Asgard freely in a package which inlcuded hyperspace waypoint markers and course plotting software, it was a great gift but within it came the burden of history that even the oldest races were not famiar with anymore. The Adnihlo jamming technology artificialy recreates or fools the hyperdrives in to not opening under the pretense that something in space nearby will damage the hyperspace fabric. Its old knowledge and in many cases is irrelevent, the codes were put in during a time of exploration and caution but today even in the midsts of a battle which is perfectly safe from the effects of a black hole, still rings clear. The adnihlo know that we are using this and have used it to our disadvantage.

I'm not sure how hyperspace jamming should work. I'd just say to keep things simple it creates distortions which prevent hyperspace windows from forming.

Hyperspace gravity bombs - gravity is one of the few things that can rip apart hyperspace quite literally, while under normal circumstances the bleed through of Hyperspace and real space filters out gravity entirely in the presece of a black hole or a planet (which is wy its dangerous to open a hyperspace window close to an atmosphere) hyperspace is very vunerable is a window is opened.
Because the Adnilho do not use hyperspace for travel they are quite content with damaging it, preventing passage to certain areas, planting bombs on known hyperspace corridors laid down long ago by dead races. They are so old they know all the trick in the trade, they have been around so long they know exactly how and when and why to hit each and every member of the allience, they fought the allience for hundreds of thousands of years and now that war has ricoshayed back down to us as products of the allience.
The Adnilho use a hyperdrive fitted with a artifical black hole generators (which is also a primary source of power) to chart a course to their target and then switch on their warhead which creates a gravity well in hyperspace sucking all in a nearby area. The warhead does not produce a full black hole, doing so would be against even he adnihlos morality but it doe create thousands of micro singularies which combine to do enough damage over a very short period as a larger black hole would do in a similar period without the nausiating hangover of having created a force which could completely destroy the fabric of the universe. The adnihlo are not irresponsible in the knowledge they possess, they are incredile intelligent and are not sluggish or stupid. They know the effects of thier actions and use this to cause just enough damage to thier target for thier plans to move forward and not any more. They are for the most part not a greedy race, they do not want to destroy the universe for the sake of destroying it, they do however want to rule all those in it and that quite frankly is the worst part. The Adnihlo will not lash out for one giant destroy ing the universe type finale, they will do surgical strikes. It is the rouge adnihlo who do not folow the collectives plans that we need to be worried about, the adniho are methodical and make the Aschen's accounting department vibe look like they are 3 year old todlers. They can be predictable but it takes more time to get to know them than we really have and we will really need our allies and information about the first war to really get us through this.
Archgate has been commanded to research and find out about the Pre-dakaran MW galaxy with specifc interest with how, why, who, what and when the adnilho and the allience came to blows. The adhnhilo are a mystery as old as the galaxy and to fight them we need alot of knowledge about them, a race as old as life itself cannot be comprehended by us, our limited perception of time is as remote to the adnihlo as the simpsons are; they will fight us for the rest of time unless we beat them first. Right now, we will need everything we have to stop them from taking this galaxy by force in a very short space of time.

I'm not really sure about some of these technologies mainly how they travel. Sorry i know you spent time on these.

**immhotep** · 21 July 2007, 01:20 PM

Ok it's good but don't call them lasers. I don't like the idea of lasers in stargate and the weapons the grace ship used weren't lasers. Call them anything but lasers. We can either make their weapons pure power weapons or exotic weapons which are mainly geared towards draining shields. I'd go for
option 1 personally. Also i'm not if their weapons would be more powerful than the most powerful Wraith weapons anyway and then there's the Reapers but we'll say they are.

Well they were lasers, thats what they were and if they are not then we dont have anything which can match them, making thme lasers or keeping them as lasers makes them at least tamable. They drained promethius in a few hits and well you know hwat happens in Jismal...

I don't like the idea of using subspace they're practically the same thing i think so it doesn't really make sense to me.

Well thats my point they arent the same, hyperspace, real space and subspace are completely different things and i want to distuiguish between them.
Ill use an analogy, Subspace is water, Real space is ground, hyperspace its air. On the ground you are supported by your sketeton and walk around using your own energy or if you in a car or whatever you use an engine. In water your body is subspended and you dont carry all of our weight, boyancy does and you just have to keep moving. in the air not only do you have to carry all you weight but it takes alot more energy to get in to the air and keep in the air due to gravity.
Now subspace is the easiest to use after real space, its basicly about negating your own weight, ie by turning matter in to energy. Like a stargate and then finding someway to propell that energy through the "water"(subspace), now artifical tunnels through the water are the chosen method, where smaller vehicles are able to go pretty much instantly because they are light. Its kind of like the eurostar tunnel, you go really really fast and dont have to win from england to france but it took alot of energy and stuff to build the tunnel and stuff. The other method in subspace is like hyperspace but instead of just entering the air and flying (which is very fast but energy intensive) you surround yourself with a bubble and fly normally but crossing a vast distance quickly.
The difference is hyperspace is much much faster but harder to opperate within, just like its hard to fly a helicopter than row a pedalow. Anyone can travel on water in some form but you need to know how to fly to be able to do it. Subspace is like water, in the early days it was the main medium for travel for the galaxy because it was easy to do. When they discovered hyperspace it make subspace become more obsolete just as air travel has done to our planet. you can travel much faster and farther by plane than by boat, but that doesnt mean both methods are not available. The Adnihlo existed in a time when subspace was still used and they did not want to give up thier technology because at that time they were the most powerful users of that technology.

I'm not sure how hyperspace jamming should work. I'd just say to keep things simple it creates distortions which prevent hyperspace windows from forming.

That is what happens, but theres a reason the windows wont open, hyperspace isnt something that you can shut out and shut off, if you have the ability to open a window then you can open a window. What stops you opening a window under X circumstances isnt the fact that you cant do it but that something within your engines are preventing it. The origional builders put in safegaurds which cannot be overridden, preventing the opening of windows. Its not that a Hyperspace window can't open, its that they are not allowed to be opened by a ships systems.

I'm not really sure about some of these technologies mainly how they travel. Sorry i know you spent time on these.

Its ok, if i have to explain them its fine but i dont think you should dismiss them just yet because i think they can really stretch out the fleet universe and get some great new ideas flowing. It will help if the adnihlo can stretch the technology barriers are bit within the gate universe. These arent major redevleopment but more like explainations which were never given. The fact that they use subspace also explains why they couldnt get out of the gas cload. Carter used a hyperspace bubble to surround the ship. Now the adnihlo use subspace bubbles but need to be in the open to create a wormhole. subspace has no bleed through, which is why you cant just open up a window and go. like with hyperspace anad theres no bleed through or wiggle room so that you can "kind of be in hyperspac" like carter was inside the bubble. subspace is cruder, you are in subspace or you are not and to get in to hyperspace within the field wasnt possible. They couldnt surround themselves in a bubble, and it would take More energy than they could dream off to instantly transport a ship of that size through subspace let alone the process of converting the entire ship from matter to energy all while inside a gas cload being corroded away by its elements.

Its complicated i know, im a bit muddled too but it make sense that the adnihlo dont use technology which we today recognise, they should have this difference. Otherwise in 40 million years the ancients did nothing. At the time the Adnihlo were almost as powerful as the entire ancient allience combined. It was not an easy victory and went on for nearly half a million years, not the entire war but conflicts between the races. If the allience were so closely matched with them when they finally defeated the adnihlo then Adnihlo technology should be at least at that level of the allience from that point. Now im not saying that the allience are still at that level but heres the clincher, if the allience's technology was so closely matched at that point, then the adnihlo must still have that level of technology too and if their technology is the same as our technology then that means the allience did not advanced for all of that time. if the adnihlo are using old technology which we dont recognise then we have the potential to find way to defeat them which were developed during all the years they were dormant. Its actually easier to fight this war if the allience advanced and they have not because even if they are using technology we dont understand, doesnt mean that there isnt technology available too us that isnt a threat to them. If we keep thier technology alien, ie subspace instead of hyperspace, laser instead of energy weapons then its much more realistic for the whole universe. Without them being alien thier whole 40my sleep would be pointless. Them being so old makes them interesting but not unbeatable, because we have the knowledge of heinsight(40my worth!) we just have to find that knowledge and implement it properly and hold them at bay during that search. On the flipside hold back a race that old using technology which is more advanced than our own even if its 40my old is still going to be a hard task and then we have to stop them using knowledge we havent even considered to counter our 40my advantage with. Its going to get complex but we can handle it!

**Buba uognarf** · 21 July 2007, 01:58 PM

Originally posted by immhotep View Post

Well they were lasers, thats what they were and if they are not then we dont have anything which can match them, making thme lasers or keeping them as lasers makes them at least tamable. They drained promethius in a few hits and well you know hwat happens in Jismal...

Please not you as well...We've NEVER seen a laser in stargate apart from the ones on the P90s. They are not lasers! They didn't travel at the speed of light so not lasers. Call them fancy Ion canons or say they use a type of energy never encountered before but they are not lasers. Actually Prometheus withstood quite a few hits no doubt they are powerful but i doubt they're far beyond Wraith or Asgard weapons. Wraith weapons can fire shots the size of the Deadalus i doubt Asgard weapons are more powerful than those.

Well thats my point they arent the same, hyperspace, real space and subspace are completely different things and i want to distuiguish between them.
Ill use an analogy, Subspace is water, Real space is ground, hyperspace its air. On the ground you are supported by your sketeton and walk around using your own energy or if you in a car or whatever you use an engine. In water your body is subspended and you dont carry all of our weight, boyancy does and you just have to keep moving. in the air not only do you have to carry all you weight but it takes alot more energy to get in to the air and keep in the air due to gravity.
Now subspace is the easiest to use after real space, its basicly about negating your own weight, ie by turning matter in to energy. Like a stargate and then finding someway to propell that energy through the "water"(subspace), now artifical tunnels through the water are the chosen method, where smaller vehicles are able to go pretty much instantly because they are light. Its kind of like the eurostar tunnel, you go really really fast and dont have to win from england to france but it took alot of energy and stuff to build the tunnel and stuff. The other method in subspace is like hyperspace but instead of just entering the air and flying (which is very fast but energy intensive) you surround yourself with a bubble and fly normally but crossing a vast distance quickly.
The difference is hyperspace is much much faster but harder to opperate within, just like its hard to fly a helicopter than row a pedalow. Anyone can travel on water in some form but you need to know how to fly to be able to do it. Subspace is like water, in the early days it was the main medium for travel for the galaxy because it was easy to do. When they discovered hyperspace it make subspace become more obsolete just as air travel has done to our planet. you can travel much faster and farther by plane than by boat, but that doesnt mean both methods are not available. The Adnihlo existed in a time when subspace was still used and they did not want to give up thier technology because at that time they were the most powerful users of that technology.

Mate I understood what you were saying I didn't need the analogy lol. But I guess i can see the point it adds to ancient race kind of thing we've got going with the Adnihilo so I can accept subspace drive but i don't like the ship being rematierialised etc...

Maybe we can find another way for it to work...

That is what happens, but theres a reason the windows wont open, hyperspace isnt something that you can shut out and shut off, if you have the ability to open a window then you can open a window. What stops you opening a window under X circumstances isnt the fact that you cant do it but that something within your engines are preventing it. The origional builders put in safegaurds which cannot be overridden, preventing the opening of windows. Its not that a Hyperspace window can't open, its that they are not allowed to be opened by a ships systems.

I'd rather it's just a field which prevents access to hyperspace instead of safeguards which have been around for millions of years and likely complete hyperdrive overhauls stopping it.

Its ok, if i have to explain them its fine but i dont think you should dismiss them just yet because i think they can really stretch out the fleet universe and get some great new ideas flowing. It will help if the adnihlo can stretch the technology barriers are bit within the gate universe. These arent major redevleopment but more like explainations which were never given. The fact that they use subspace also explains why they couldnt get out of the gas cload. Carter used a hyperspace bubble to surround the ship. Now the adnihlo use subspace bubbles but need to be in the open to create a wormhole. subspace has no bleed through, which is why you cant just open up a window and go. like with hyperspace anad theres no bleed through or wiggle room so that you can "kind of be in hyperspac" like carter was inside the bubble. subspace is cruder, you are in subspace or you are not and to get in to hyperspace within the field wasnt possible. They couldnt surround themselves in a bubble, and it would take More energy than they could dream off to instantly transport a ship of that size through subspace let alone the process of converting the entire ship from matter to energy all while inside a gas cload being corroded away by its elements.

Ok i think that we need to work on a few fine details on how the technology works because i don't like some of it. Sorry if you felt i was being dismissive.

Its complicated i know, im a bit muddled too but it make sense that the adnihlo dont use technology which we today recognise, they should have this difference. Otherwise in 40 million years the ancients did nothing. At the time the Adnihlo were almost as powerful as the entire ancient allience combined. It was not an easy victory and went on for nearly half a million years, not the entire war but conflicts between the races. If the allience were so closely matched with them when they finally defeated the adnihlo then Adnihlo technology should be at least at that level of the allience from that point. Now im not saying that the allience are still at that level but heres the clincher, if the allience's technology was so closely matched at that point, then the adnihlo must still have that level of technology too and if their technology is the same as our technology then that means the allience did not advanced for all of that time. if the adnihlo are using old technology which we dont recognise then we have the potential to find way to defeat them which were developed during all the years they were dormant. Its actually easier to fight this war if the allience advanced and they have not because even if they are using technology we dont understand, doesnt mean that there isnt technology available too us that isnt a threat to them. If we keep thier technology alien, ie subspace instead of hyperspace, laser instead of energy weapons then its much more realistic for the whole universe. Without them being alien thier whole 40my sleep would be pointless. Them being so old makes them interesting but not unbeatable, because we have the knowledge of heinsight(40my worth!) we just have to find that knowledge and implement it properly and hold them at bay during that search. On the flipside hold back a race that old using technology which is more advanced than our own even if its 40my old is still going to be a hard task and then we have to stop them using knowledge we havent even considered to counter our 40my advantage with. Its going to get complex but we can handle it!

Ok I can agree with that but no way did the Alliance vs Adnihilo war last half a million years that's absurd! lol. In many ways the million years old technology of the ancients is still cutting edge so there's no reason the Adnihilo technology couldn't be a huge threat especially if it's different to what we encountered.

**immhotep** · 21 July 2007, 02:38 PM

Ok they are not lasers, i can see you will be vry angry if i continue that route, and the not speed of light thing is true. But the filtering of the light part can still work even if they are not lasers, alot of the energy could still be taken up by them producing a visible pulse. Promethius only got fired upon for a few seconds though, most of our ships would be destroyed in a few hits, i doubt few ships besides that flagships could go toe to toe with the grace warship and survive for very long. I can see us being seriously dependant upon others during this war but i can also see it being the final building block in us becoming the fifth race. Us joining the allience after the allience defeat the one race which tried to defeat them or could have defeated them make sense. The entire allience has to take full responsibilty for the adnihlo, they cant just let us fight them because they must know how powerful the adnihlo were.

Ok the smaller ship part can be editted, it can be an earlier form of travel, but its not that contrversial, basicly all they do is beam the entire ship in to a buffer which is hooked up to the jump drive. The jumpdrive can then do its thing and go through hyperspace really quickly (because its basicly 1% of the mass it used to be) but if your not happy ill edit that part.

The whole ancient race ties in to the hyperspace codes, they know something about our drives that we dont know. Its a weird twist in that they were about for the discovery of hyperspace and there were certain fundemental pieces of the technology put in when they were about which have been lost in time. The safegaurds are not even known about, we dont know how to override them they are just there. even thor had to escape the energy of a blackhole before he could enter hyperspace. These thingswere put in so long ago that only a race that is that old has any recollection of them. They work because we dont know why they work, its a trick, we can override them but until we find out that we can override them the computers will keep flashing and the windows wont open.

The whole basis for my "version" of the Adnihlo goes on the pretense that they are a race which are so old that most of the races alive today take everything they know about for granted and therefore are vunderable to that obliviousness. We dont that they jam our hyperdrives using a code put in 40million years ago. They use our reliance and trust in what the ancients did in the past against us, because from there perspective they are fighting the allience and believe us to be products of the allience. Which for the most part we are, when we learn that they are going on that principle we will be able to think outside the box again like we always do and kill them. When the tauri come out of the shaddow of the ancients and the asgard and use their own technology and tactics to defeat the adnihlo, thats when we will be able to become the fifth race. We can only become a true allience race when we are not bogged down in the ancient and asgard technology we have used for the past 50 years, because that technology is exactly the technology the adnihlo have fought against. They know it's weaknesses better than we do and the longer we use it, the most dangerous it becomes for us. We have to use our own technology to defeat them. The allience and the Adnihlo stood of for hundreds of years ( i agree half a million isnt right) and would be able to do so again. We are a fresh face to them and while using the technology of the allience might be our only hope right now, not using it might be our only hope to survive. Its kind of an ironic full circle, our power grows by using the allience but now only distancing that link will be enough to save us from an enemy the allience itself has truely feared.

**Buba uognarf** · 21 July 2007, 03:11 PM

Originally posted by immhotep View Post

Ok they are not lasers, i can see you will be vry angry if i continue that route, and the not speed of light thing is true. But the filtering of the light part can still work even if they are not lasers, alot of the energy could still be taken up by them producing a visible pulse. Promethius only got fired upon for a few seconds though, most of our ships would be destroyed in a few hits, i doubt few ships besides that flagships could go toe to toe with the grace warship and survive for very long. I can see us being seriously dependant upon others during this war but i can also see it being the final building block in us becoming the fifth race. Us joining the allience after the allience defeat the one race which tried to defeat them or could have defeated them make sense. The entire allience has to take full responsibilty for the adnihlo, they cant just let us fight them because they must know how powerful the adnihlo were.

Sorry but one member of the boards i've been arguing with recently has been going on about lasers in SG so it really annoys me lol. The Prometheus took about 30 hits so the 'grace' weapons are many times stronger than the weapons on Anubis's supership.

Ok the smaller ship part can be editted, it can be an earlier form of travel, but its not that contrversial, basicly all they do is beam the entire ship in to a buffer which is hooked up to the jump drive. The jumpdrive can then do its thing and go through hyperspace really quickly (because its basicly 1% of the mass it used to be) but if your not happy ill edit that part.

I'd rather subspace travel taking longer to start up maybe taking a couple of minutes to charge a determain location. But i'm open minded.

The whole ancient race ties in to the hyperspace codes, they know something about our drives that we dont know. Its a weird twist in that they were about for the discovery of hyperspace and there were certain fundemental pieces of the technology put in when they were about which have been lost in time. The safegaurds are not even known about, we dont know how to override them they are just there. even thor had to escape the energy of a blackhole before he could enter hyperspace. These thingswere put in so long ago that only a race that is that old has any recollection of them. They work because we dont know why they work, its a trick, we can override them but until we find out that we can override them the computers will keep flashing and the windows wont open.

I like your idea of us having to think for ourselves to beat the Adnihilo but i'm not sure about the safeguard idea. But I'm warming up to it so i'm not going to argue about that.

The whole basis for my "version" of the Adnihlo goes on the pretense that they are a race which are so old that most of the races alive today take everything they know about for granted and therefore are vunderable to that obliviousness. We dont that they jam our hyperdrives using a code put in 40million years ago. They use our reliance and trust in what the ancients did in the past against us, because from there perspective they are fighting the allience and believe us to be products of the allience. Which for the most part we are, when we learn that they are going on that principle we will be able to think outside the box again like we always do and kill them. When the tauri come out of the shaddow of the ancients and the asgard and use their own technology and tactics to defeat the adnihlo, thats when we will be able to become the fifth race. We can only become a true allience race when we are not bogged down in the ancient and asgard technology we have used for the past 50 years, because that technology is exactly the technology the adnihlo have fought against. They know it's weaknesses better than we do and the longer we use it, the most dangerous it becomes for us. We have to use our own technology to defeat them. The allience and the Adnihlo stood of for hundreds of years ( i agree half a million isnt right) and would be able to do so again. We are a fresh face to them and while using the technology of the allience might be our only hope right now, not using it might be our only hope to survive. Its kind of an ironic full circle, our power grows by using the allience but now only distancing that link will be enough to save us from an enemy the allience itself has truely feared.

I do like the idea of us having beaten the Aschen and relied on the Asgard and there technology against the Wraith becoming dependant on that tech. Then us realised it's now our weakness and while the old alliance members struggles to change and fight the Adnihlo we think outside the box and beat them.

**boberth2o** · 21 July 2007, 07:05 PM

Well I'm back again, and I have some good news and some bad news.

Good News

Spoiler:

Bad News

Spoiler:

Announcement

Gateworld Virtual Fleet 2.0

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