Original Starship Design Thread

[Merlin1701]

Sketchup isnt free for an hour?! the free version has all the features of the pro version, the only difference is export options...and for doing scenes you dont need that, just export as a 2d image and use photo shop..

Also there are always ways to get the pro version without paying. But trust me, there isnt much point its almost identical in every way. Just because its free doesnt mean its crap and just because its pro doesnt mean its better...

agree! and green

[Automission]

I've given sketch up a brief try, and I have no idea how you can make ships with it. Unless there is a hidden 3D mode, it seems rather difficult to do. Blender's been easer so far, since it's all rendered in 3D.
I then could just export the image of the render to photoshop to paint it, etc. Prey tell how you work so well with sketch up, as if half the stuff I've seen here was made with sketch up, I'm amazed/

[immhotep]

merlin thank you for the compliment but you accidentily pressed Neg instead of positive, no worries i wont break my balence, but it was a bit surprising to have a red with such a nice compliment!

And sketchup IS 3d. far more then blender IMO...i love that program.

[Automission]

Initial tests didn't confirm that to me. Within five minutes of blender I had a 3D object slightly resembling the shape of a Puddle jumper. Ten minutes in Sketchup I had some rectangles laying on the floor. Saw no way to make them into a box shape. Guess I'l have to follow tutorials.

[Dr Lee]

i find 3D Max the better program to use personally

[Merlin1701]

merlin thank you for the compliment but you accidentily pressed Neg instead of positive, no worries i wont break my balence, but it was a bit surprising to have a red with such a nice compliment!

And sketchup IS 3d. far more then blender IMO...i love that program.

woops!!! sorry! was rushing between windows.

[Automission]

i find 3D Max the better program to use personally

Yeah, but that costs money. Produces nice models though.

[immhotep]

Initial tests didn't confirm that to me. Within five minutes of blender I had a 3D object slightly resembling the shape of a Puddle jumper. Ten minutes in Sketchup I had some rectangles laying on the floor. Saw no way to make them into a box shape. Guess I'l have to follow tutorials.

Erm open the program, click the push pull tool you fool! Its the one with the Up arrows. Its really simple. Oh and as a general guide to ship design. Ill repost my old one from ages ago...its over 2 years old now. May update it soon.

[immhotep]

Immhotep's Guide to Ship design; part 1

This is something I have been hesitating about for a while; ive been around for a while (nearly 2 years) and I love ship design but have never believed I had the right to define what it was. So writing a guide to ship design seemed to be a little hypocritical from my own perspective so I had held off doing it for along time. Until now that is, its my GW birthday, I’m 5000 post's old and because I consider myself a founding father of the 'ship designers' I felt that as a token of the threads that got me those 5000 post I would like to give something back and it shall be my personal guide to ship design.
I created the first thread about ship design as well as several others; I have also been an active posting member of every ship design thread since Feb. 05, so 20 months. If I were to count through all the post ive made on ships design I guess it would be about 1500 posts, which is consider a great sign of my commitment and with that resume in hand I would like to give you my guide to ship design in many its forms.

Places & people

Places:
First I would like to introduce the places and people whom I consider the best in this trade and where better to start than where we are located, the Original Starship Design Thread. The OSDT ( as it has recently become known as ) was begun as the "new ship thread" which you can see by looking at the first 3 dozen posts, it was then merged with another existing thread, the OSDT.
The OSDT has served as the primary centre for all ship design in the broad sense since it was created. However just for those who are interested there are some other threads I would like to point out.

• http://forum.gateworld.net/showthread.php?t=25717 - This is the first ships design thread on GW believe it or not. Don’t ask about the name or folder!
• http://forum.gateworld.net/showthread.php?t=18023 - This is another smaller scale but very pleasant thread on ship design that was around at the same time as the new ship design thread. Why it wasn’t merged in to here I cannot tell you.
• http://forum.gateworld.net/showthread.php?t=24887 - This is Homeworld defence which IMO contains some great posts about where our design may or may not fit in to the grand scheme of things, it also contains some designs.
• http://forum.gateworld.net/showthread.php?t=27438 - Im not a part of this thread but I have lurked and is a good resource for modellers and just people interested in the ships of SG
• http://forum.gateworld.net/showthread.php?t=30607 - The GW fleet thread, this is my baby and the product of every one on GW who does ship design and ill talk about that later on.
• http://forum.gateworld.net/showthread.php?t=37500 - Number 2!
  

People:
Here is a short list of people who you will find lurking about the ship threads on pretty regular basis:

• - Immhotep
• - Cooky
• - Freya's mother
• - Aurora-Gate
• - JRPR
• - Andrew Joshua Talon
• - Publius Aemilius Aper
• - mburrows
• - ZakeD
• - Wraith scientist
• - Buba uognarf
• - Battera
• - Seastallion
• - Daryl Froggy
• - Milleniumlance
• - Davidtourniquet

This is a shortlist, and there are probably dozens ive forgotten but these are the ones I can recall the best and enjoy being around the most, most of the time
I obviously can’t write down or judge everything these people have done, that’s not my place, well actually ive probably already done it so id be repeating myself, ill just say you are recalled for a reason and I might mention you later on.

The Designs - format

Ok enough with the chatter, lets get down to business, I’m not going be brash about this, I’m just going to run off the basic things most designs should have and a little about why.

There are two real kinds of design, technical and prose and I will outline the features of each in their own subsection you can read through my "<snips>" of the designs im using a template.

Technical

The first design I will explain is the technical design, a very detailed breakdown of everything a ship is. This template was created from a design by Andrew Joshua Talon, who created this kind of format and others have adapted or copied it. It serves as a comprehensive format, which evolved from early forms that existed way back when, I really like and use it for a lot of my less special designs; and this is the best kind to use for 95% of the designs.
Name: <snip> This is usually where the name of the ship is put, be creative if you can or link it in with the current line of ships in the show or any previous one you have done if you want to build up a continuity in your designs. More advanced ships can be more powerfully named e.g. Ancient experimental warships being named Angel's for example. There is actually a system that was developed a while back that is located here: http://forum.gateworld.net/showpost....postcount=1333

Type: <snip> this is basically a summery of what the ships can be used for, in most designs this is merged with class, but something along the lines of " long range hyperspace capable warship" is a familiar feature under this heading

Technology base: <snip> This is something of personal choice, I tend to use Tauri/Asgard/Goa’uld as my standard technology base but with the asurians and the Ori and the wraith and the Atlantis expedition we have access to much more variety of technology, however please don’t be tempted to create a hybrid of everything out there. It will be shot down and I will explain why later.

Operators: <snip> This is just who runs the ship, humans from earth is the standard response but if your ship has Asgard technology or Goa’uld then you may want to include Asgard or Jaffa/ Tok’ra technicians too.

Naval Classification: <snip> A big issue, choose you ship class VERY wisely because it will be the first thing people judge your ship by, a handy guide to classes can be found here: http://forum.gateworld.net/showpost....&postcount=163
Read this and you should be fine IMO, it’s pretty comprehensive and easy to follow. Plus it’s written by Seastallion

Hull:<snip> This can be alot of things but most just use a standard "Naquadah/trinium/carbon alloy" it is the Asgard’s super material and we have access to all three materials so its the one most people use. You can use steel, titanium, trinium, naquadriah, carbon, naquadrah, organics, rock; basically any combination of materials as long as they make sense.

Decks :<snip> Not really important unless you want to be extra detailed.

Dimensions: <snip>
Don’t be stupid, if you’re a bomber do not make your ship the size of a planet. The dimensions should fit whatever the rest of the specs require, if it’s made by earth humans, its not going to be huge, because we don’t have the resources.

Displacement: <snip> amount of space this ship takes up in the atmosphere, most people do not bother with this but if you are inclined, put it in.

Crew: <snip> yeah this is quite important if for example it’s a transport ship or something of that nature
~Maximum Personnel: <snip> self explanatory
~Troops: <snip> how many troops can it carry, both long term and in the short term, are they stationed on board or are they just along for the ride
Craft: <snip> Quite an important factor, carriers and battle carriers need specifying what they carry and what numbers.
Vehicles:<snip> same as above, personally I like to see ships having vehicles because TPTB annoy me by not having them available to our teams when realistically they would have them.
Power plant: <snip> 90% of people use various 'marks' of the Naquadah reactor, mark III, IV and V are common, they are basically larger or more stable versions of the current one seen in SG1/SGA. Others have Asgard or Goa’uld adapted power systems, occasionally in genuine designs you will find a ZPM (for example if it’s a historical ancient ship)

Engines: <snip> The most common form of drive is the hebridan Ion drive; but chemical thrusters and anti gravity propulsion are also common additions to designs.
The hyperdrive is also put here, standard Asgard hyperdrive is the most frequently used but Goa’uld and human and even ancient hyperdrive could be put here. You could replace this with another FTL drive if you wish but in the context of SG I wouldn’t recommend it.

Armament/Weapons: <snip> This is a very important part of the design, thee most important for most, this is where 99% of craft completely fall down flat, mainly because the weapon are too powerful, too numerous, or too abstract to exist in relation to the rest of the ship's design. If you design the craft, be sensible in this department because it’s what set your vessel apart from everyone else’s.

Defences:
<snip> usually Asgard/ Goa’uld / human shield's, Asgard is the most common with the "standard Asgard bubble shield" being a familiar sight f. Ancient shields may be used but I would recommend against them, partly because they are way above us, and partly because I think Asgard shields are more powerful anyway.
Other Technology: <snip> Here you put things like beaming technology, sensors, computers, medical and research labs etc

Technical and Historical Notes: <snip> This is my favourite part of any design, its back-story and its purpose are my favourite bit to read. Why a ship exists, where it’s made, how old it is, what it’s been used for, did it win or lose, what impressive things has it done. I love reading about the ship, some people do a short history, and others do books. Every ship should have one of these, the specs can only tell you so much, if you want your ship to be respected and remembered, then this is the part of the design to make the best you can. I consider each of the history’s a unique, ship based piece of fan fiction, and I think that’s the best way to approach it. Like a story.


Well folks that’s part one, for my 5000th post celebration I must split this artefact in to two, happy reading part 1, part 2 will be along in a few moments

Part 1 of 2
Immhotep

Part 1 repost

[immhotep]

Immhotep's Guide to Ship design; part 2

So this is part two of the guide, the second post, no. 5001 in this section I will go in to some of the other less familiar points of ship design, starting with the second most common format used, Prose.

Prose design

The second type of Design I want to look at is the Prose design, this is a kind of design that I have used a few times and while the purely technical method above is used by everyone, others may like to be wordier about their ships.
The ships basic specs are laid out at the top, name, class, size, materials used. Then in subsections the main part of the ship are detailed in prose paragraphs about each, Propulsion, Weapons, defences, other technology, and history are each given full reign. Sometimes many pages are used to describe the character, look, and capabilities of each ship. With history’s given for the technology within the ship, as well as the ship itself. Battles where it things worked well can be given and as much detail in to every aspect of the ship can be provided.

This kind of design is my favourite because I love to know as much as I can about designs and where they come from (cooky's millennial pride is a great example of this kind of design: http://forum.gateworld.net/showpost....&postcount=360)

I recommend this type of design if you really love the design and know every aspect of it, I do this for special ships that I really want to go the full mile on; if you do one of these kinds of designs then people will read them and you will get comments back. Personally I remember these ships the most, ill never forget the millennial pride and one of the reasons is because it’s in this format ( not just the pretty pictures )

It doesn’t mean I will forget the other kind of specification for your ship, but it defiantly stands out more this way
Fanwank
This is a derogatory term that has a clear and distinct definition within our little realm and is actually a term I think we all coined because it’s used nowhere else. If your ship is called fanwank then it’s for a reason and you should listen and evaluate your ship as to why.
What is fanwank you ask? It describes a ship that uses or portrays something that it’s completely over the top in every way, something that is inexplicable or unnecessary, overkill, way beyond the requirements or technical ability of the creators or the ship.
Examples of fanwank can be found all over this section, common fanwanking features are ZPM's as power sources, ancient weapons and shields, all in horrendous numbers and megalithic sizes.
^ that’s fanwank ^

Fanwank is the biggest annoyance to people in ship design, poorly designed ships are simply clutter than isn’t worth the memory it’s taking up. Please do not post fanwank, it is something that will get shot down instantly or ignored and will be glanced and forgotten in about 5 milliseconds, it’s a waste of time. There not much more I can say except don’t do it! Even though everyone in the 'people' section has done it, we now hate it and know what it is so much that we can openly identify it and tear it pieces, its just good sense not to invoke the fanwank wrath within us all!


The Gateworld fleets:

The Gateworld fleet is a coalition of ships designers based on Gateworld that have been around for a while and essentially wanted to do something different. Founded and I guess headed by myself the GW fleet uses a mix of the best designs that have been on GW voted for by the members of the thread and others from every class of ship that we could think of to create a vibrant fleet of ships. These ships are used in a member generated future of the Pegasus galaxy with new races, and alliances present; the storyline is that the Asgard and humans from earth joined together to create a large multipurpose fleet of ships and went on a full scale war against the wraith and its subspecies in a timeline set about 20 years from now ( 2020- 2035 are the war dates) . This war is portrayed by members of the thread writing detailed battle accounts, including preludes and aftermaths and blow by blow accounts of ship combat in an RPG manner to generate a flowing series of battles, failures, counter attacks in a diverse and growing future universe where the humans are no long the underdog but fighting in a true and coherent war, it’s the next level of ship design and everyone is welcome. It has IMO been a great success and I only hope it continues because for me personally the GW fleet has changed my whole outlook on ship design and I think it has done the same for others too.

The Gw fleet 2.0 tells the story of Earth approximately 10 years after wraith attack on Earth. In 2045, Earth had rebuilt itself, and now 10 years later it is meeting its match on every front. In our brief absence, the galaxy has fallen prey to the cold and calculating force of the Aschen. Now Earth and its allies fight to liberate this galaxy one last time to carve out humanity's place in the future, with the Earth flag flying higher than any other. The Aschen and the Tau'ri are both superpowers, and just like the cold war, everyone is being sucked into this fight. Humanity is being split in two: Aschen and Earth. One side will win, and in doing so become the supreme human civilization for the rest of time and earn the right to be called the fifth race. But aswe spread across the galaxy and universe we will soon discover that there are far worse things out there than the Aschen, or even the Wraith..

3.0 Is in the works!


Images and models:
You can also put any images you have of your ship out there too , people love pictures, its a simple fact, there are programs that have been more successful than others, paint was always used, blender employed by others (Cooky) but in more recent times googlesketchup has become the best program for quick and easy representation of your ship's design. Everyone seems to be able to pick it up with varying degrees of success and I would think that it’s worth a go if you care about the ship your designing are a useful tool, models are better, and with the ease of generation becoming available I see not reason why most ships that get designed in the near future couldn’t have a model for them, if the effort is put in to make one.

Google sketchup:
Due to public request I have decided to attempt to explain one of the programs that has become popular, googlesketchup. Googlesketchup is a free downloadable program available from this location: http://www.sketchup.com/
The program has really improve the volume of models on the forum because while not producing the best quality graphics in the business it is certainly easy to use; if blender was Photoshop then this would be MSpaint by comparison.
Using GS is quite easy to do. Basically you have three kinds of shape, a rectangle, circle and hexagon. You can create any configuration of these within the model but the beauty of GS is the push/pull tool. This tool allows you to take a rectangle lift it up to become 3D then you can use a pencil to dram in the detail, then use the same push/pull tool or cut away sides or create impressions or extensions to the original rectangle ( you can do this with only rect. And hex.)
I can’t properly express how cool the push/pull tool actually is, you just have to use it and figure it out, it make everything so much easier. If you have say a paint drawing of the ships rough outline, the three tools above will let you create it without even thinking. The program is very intuitive and interactive and while can be fiddly at times it makes up for it by being so simplistic to pick up, and if you try it, put in an hour or so, then you will pick it up. I suggest just making your dream house and then make a ship and it will teach you everything you need.
You can also add textures to the model, but these can be anything from the custom to images from your own computer, which is cool IMO. I once Thor plastered over the entire surface of a ship, it was quite funny.
In addition if your modelling skill are not up to your expectations then you have the magical option of passing it up the ladder by opening it up to the world via the warehouse, a database of any designs by anyone, and you can get some pretty cool stuff on there, its also how you can load them in to the Google earth program; im still waiting for someone to put a Stargate model in the Whitehouse front lawn for some reason. The warehouse contains a growing number of Stargate related products, many of them coming from OSDT members, and so im sure if you cannot do it then you can find help there and they might be able to edit your warehouse product and give it back 5* quality. If you need general assistance then this is a good place: http://groups.google.com/group/SketchUp*.
If you just want to show off then you can take photos of your model form any angle (even looking through the bridge ) and post for all to see them via some photo hosting place such as www.imageshack.us in to the OSDT or other ship thread.

!WARNING! MODELING IS ADDICTIVE

Modelling Anonamous newsletter; Tips from the Top; How to's:

Make a cone: Make a sphere:

That was part 2; it’s much shorter than part one and it’s where I will add anything people think is missing to the end. That was it, Immhotep's Guide to Ship design.



-------- THE END -------

Immhotep

Part 2 Repost

[Semmer]

Different programs suit different people. It really depends on what you model. For instance, if you plan to do organic modelling in sketchup, forget it. But try that same in max and you're in business.

Sketchup=boxy
3ds/lightwave=boxy,sleeky,everything


For example, I'm starting to find sketchup somehow limited, but in the other hand I don't find other programs as easy to use. If 3DS would be as easy to use as sketchup, I would do all my modelling in it, but no. It really depends on a person and the program what suits the best.

[immhotep]

I wish there was some way of using the sketchup interface but with the features of the otherprograms lol. Yeah you can forget organics in sketchup but for the Tauri style ships i find sketchup absolutely perfect.

[ManiacMike]

Maya has a fairly simple interface, just with a lot of options.

[boberth2o]

Hopefully we're convincing you to start this, It's really fun after you know what your doing

[Dr Lee]

it's also quite fulfilling to look back at the stuff you did when you start out and what you're doing atm... the improvement can be a real lift.