Fanfic Writers' Virtual Water Cooler

[Amara D'Angeli]

Okay, I have no idea what happened, but I wasn't getting any notifications for this thread the way I normally do. And here I thought it was just having a quiet couple of days!

amaradangeli and Whytewytch,I've sent you both PMs.

Personally, I don't define mature fic by whether it contains sex, violence or swearing (although if it does,it's definitely mature). Just 15 minutes ago I finished reading a story that contained none of these things, but I would still define it as mature because in it the author dealt with emotional and mental trauma suffered by the characters who had undergone a terrible medical procedure against their will. All the gory, scary details were left "off-screen", but this story is definitely something I would qualify as mature. Another story I read recently dealt with the subject of extreme case of phobia. Also, there was no swearing,sex,or violence. Still, a story that, to my mind, had mature themes.

That said,I don't believe a story should contain some kind of traumatic experience to count as mature. But if it does, and the consequences of the trauma are handled appropriately, believably and respectfully, it's a mature story to me.

Any story that handles difficult subjects with respect and realism is mature.

That's my preferred definition,anyway.

I'm with you there. For me, mature and adult are two very different things. I like reading adult rated fics because, and I'm not ashamed to admit it, I like reading about the sex. I tend to write both mature and adult fics (and usually both at the same time). I define mature as dealing with subject matter that wouldn't necessarily connect with an immature reader. And, generally speaking, I consider mature subject matter to be emotionally mature rather than sexually mature. I mean, I have you seen a PG-13 movie lately? Yikes!

Question for Whyte & Amar: what makes a fic mature, in your view? Only sex? Sex and violence? Only violence? Language?

Seaboe

So mature might be how the characters deal with particular situations and the emotional impact on them. It might be violence that I don't really think is wholly inappropriate for kids, it might include coarse language...it just depends. But it can be mature without being sexually explicit. (Damn, wouldn't it be nice if these things were standardized?)

And I can read about nearly anything. Years ago, I tried reading The Exorcist. That was the only book I could not finish, other than a short story by Stephen King (Survivor Type, which put me off of roast beef sandwiches for months). I've read multiple books by F. Paul Wilson, who writes horror and isn't afraid to write the blood, either. I've read erotica--sometimes it's tripe, but sometimes it's really good. Anne Rice, writing as Anne Roquelaure, is awesome for that.

I can read or watch just about anything. Except horror - I don't understand why people enjoy being frightened. Just goes right over my head.

I prefer psychological thillers and action when it comes to movies and character studies when it comes to reading. I read (and write) erotica that's unreleated to fandom. Anne Roquelaure absolutely changed my life with the Sleeping Beauty trilogy - that was my first real introduction to the genre and it helped me feel less ashamed about the things I tended to read and write. It was nice to not be alone - especially since I started writing in the genre when I was still quite a bit too young. (Another reason I don't - necessarily - define sex as "mature". I know a lot of high-schoolers who are/were having sex and I don't think I'd define any of them as "mature".)

I was asking about tastes rather than rating, so Raelis's answer was right on the ball. It's difficult to recommend "mature" stories if you don't know what someone considers mature. Given that ratings are set by the writer, IMO, it's a mistake to go looking only in places like Helio2 for that type of fiction.

I've read stuff rated 18+ because someone uses bad language once or twice; I've read stuff rated PG that dealt with extremely mature themes.

Seaboe

Helio 2 appears to be mostly mature rated fics that are rated for sex. That's fine, but I prefer a little more substance with my sex.

I guess it really does come down to what the writer considers to be adult content. As a writer, I will warn mainly for graphic sexual content, because I don't really have blood and gore or over-the-top swearing. If bits and bobs are mentioned (or discussed in great detail), I rate it and throw in a caution so the reader knows WHY it was rated as I did. For instance, I will say, "rated for graphic sexual situations--non-con, dub-con, slash"

I try to warn for major stuff. But I have a theory on over-warning. It's not popular and it created quite a stir over at LJ when I originally posted it. At the time it was written for a specific incident, but since then has become something of a calling card for me. You can read it at my website if you're really interested.

But mostly I try to "warn" for things people might be looking specifically for. Almost like using key-words or tags.

Just out of interest, do you guys think slash deserves higher ratings by definition? Is a G-rated slash fic equivalent to an M-rated het or gen fic?

No, I don't think it does and if I were to write slash (which I don't) then I would rate it the same as I would a heterosexual version of the relationship. However, I do think the pairing should be listed in the header info (or like on AO3) just in case people interpret the two male characters and the romantic genre as two heterosexual relationships with other (wo)men, like Whytewytch said. Not because it's slash (I always list pairings for my fics in header info) but because some people might not ship the same way.

In my opinion, slash fics should be with the same hand as het fics. I don't think slash relationships are inherently more mature than het ones. See previous comment regarding high school students.

[SF_and_Coffee]

I can read or watch just about anything. Except horror - I don't understand why people enjoy being frightened. Just goes right over my head.

Oh, good. Someone else whose attitude on that is the same as mine. Thank you!

I prefer psychological thillers and action when it comes to movies and character studies when it comes to reading.

Yep, this too. And when I write, I tend to do character studies that incorporate a bit of mystery and some action. But it's mainly all about character for me.

[Falcon Horus]

I don't like it when authors refuse to label their fic.

I probably over-label a wee bit.

[iiradned]

I can read or watch just about anything. Except horror - I don't understand why people enjoy being frightened. Just goes right over my head.

I avoid horror and slasher flics as well. In addition to horror going over my head, it just doesn't appeal to me.

I prefer psychological thillers and action when it comes to movies and character studies when it comes to reading. I read (and write) erotica that's unreleated to fandom. Anne Roquelaure absolutely changed my life with the Sleeping Beauty trilogy - that was my first real introduction to the genre and it helped me feel less ashamed about the things I tended to read and write.

Been awhile since I've read the Beauty trilogy.

I try to warn for major stuff. But I have a theory on over-warning. It's not popular and it created quite a stir over at LJ when I originally posted it. At the time it was written for a specific incident, but since then has become something of a calling card for me. You can read it at my website if you're really interested.

While I'm not a girl your rant is absolutely spot on.

[Amara D'Angeli]

While I'm not a girl your rant is absolutely spot on.

Thank you. It's nice to know I'm not alone!

[Falcon Horus]

I prefer overlabeling over coming face first with an unhappy reader who then continues to spout their annoyance all over the place. Doesn't do wonders for the reputation... but that's just my opinion.

[Gatefan1976]

Awww, no love for horror in here

[Raelis]

There are some things I'm extremely sensitive about, and I know I'm going to be very unhappy if the author hasn't warned for them in their fic. I will never attack them for this. But I will also never read their stuff again.

For me it's very important that writers warn for such things as rape, torture and murder (of both people and animals), parner betrayal, shifting pairings in the middle of the story, character bashing (yes, some writers are self-aware to understand that they might not be particularly fair to a character they dislike,so they warn for this with something like "Probably not for Character A fans").

[Falcon Horus]

But I will also never read their stuff again.

I knew I have a good reason for it.

[fems]

There are some things I'm extremely sensitive about, and I know I'm going to be very unhappy if the author hasn't warned for them in their fic. I will never attack them for this. But I will also never read their stuff again.

For me it's very important that writers warn for such things as rape, torture and murder (of both people and animals), parner betrayal, shifting pairings in the middle of the story, character bashing (yes, some writers are self-aware to understand that they might not be particularly fair to a character they dislike,so they warn for this with something like "Probably not for Character A fans").

I wouldn't warn for partner betrayal, although if it's an important part of the story it would already be (hinted at) in my summary. The rest I would just mention but not specifically shifting pairings, just list the different pairings in the fic in my header info.

[Amara D'Angeli]

For me it's very important that writers warn for such things as rape, torture and murder (of both people and animals), parner betrayal, shifting pairings in the middle of the story, character bashing (yes, some writers are self-aware to understand that they might not be particularly fair to a character they dislike,so they warn for this with something like "Probably not for Character A fans").

If a writer is worth their salt and a story contains somethng like rape, torture or murder (of people), there will be some suggestion of that in the summary - major plot points like that shouldn't crop up without the reader having some understanding of it.

I'm particularly sensitive to the death and injury of animals (as a matter of fact I stopped watching Game of Thrones at the very beginning because of the death of an animal). But I wouldn't warn for it necessarily. I might tag it but I don't think I'd put a disclaimer on it. I do tend to mention things in my author's notes - but it's usually because I'm reflecting on what it felt like to deal with something as the writer.

Like fems, I woldn't necessarily warn for partner betrayal, but it'd be metioned in the summary if it were a major plot point.

[Raelis]

I wouldn't warn for partner betrayal, although if it's an important part of the story it would already be (hinted at) in my summary. The rest I would just mention but not specifically shifting pairings, just list the different pairings in the fic in my header info.

Yes, listing all the pairings in the header info works for me. I've just been burned many times when a writer that had one pairing listed unexpectedly switched to another in the middle of the fic. As for partner betrayal, it only bothers me in the contxt of shifting pairings. If my OTP is broken up out of the blue with one character cheating on the other, and the fic ends with the cheater happily riding into the sunset with a new beau, hell yeah I'm going to be pissed. And I will probably ignore this writer's work in the future.

[Amara D'Angeli]

Yes, listing all the pairings in the header info works for me. I've just been burned many times when a writer that had one pairing listed unexpectedly switched to another in the middle of the fic. As for partner betrayal, it only bothers me in the contxt of shifting pairings. If my OTP is broken up out of the blue with one character cheating on the other, and the fic ends with the cheater happily riding into the sunset with a new beau, hell yeah I'm going to be pissed. And I will probably ignore this writer's work in the future.

I'd be pretty pissed too, and it may keep me from reading in the future (depending on the previous relationship I'd had with the author's work).

[Gatefan1976]

Just out of curiosity.

If published authors have no need to put "warnings" and such on thier work, *why* do fic writers seem to feel the need to do so? I can well apreciate "genre classification", but why this need to do any more than that?

[fems]

Just out of curiosity.

If published authors have no need to put "warnings" and such on thier work, *why* do fic writers seem to feel the need to do so? I can well apreciate "genre classification", but why this need to do any more than that?

Well, for me it's mostly the fact that you can only have 255384 characters for your summary on FFnet, while there's much more room for one of a published book.