Fic help.

[SF_and_Coffee]

shouldn't that be 'please keep all body parts inside your underwear at all times?'

Didn't the Georgia Satellites have a song about that?

(My friends and I used to sing along on the dance floor, and to be funny, we'd change "keep your hands to yourself" to "keep that thing in your pants". )

[Aragon101]

Oh! forgot to say:

Still having issues describing action sequences, and not letting my romance turn harlequin. GAH!

I write alot of action scenes and i've found that focusing on specific portions and bouncing back and forth tends to work best. Example would be to get into different people's heads and 'watch' the action unfold around them. Describe the sensations the person has while it's actually happening, but don't focus. Just describe the action around them and a little about the feelings the person has, in the middle of a gunfight there isn't time to focus like that, so i feel the writing should reflect that.

During a lull then all for the sentiments and feelings, but even then don't go overboard because that's the kind of thing that soldiers aovoid due to it being so distracting.

Here's an example from a scene i'm particularly proud of.

Sam, Cam and Teal'c had rushed out upon the grenade's detonation and charged through, Teal'c firing forward, Cam to the left and Sam to the right. In their wedge running formation, they blew through the Ori advance with blistering speed and now continued towards the landing pad where the Jaffa struggled to evacuate those who were left. Cargo Ships opened hyperspace windows mere meters above the ground, desperate to escape the Ori advance.

Cam suddenly raised his P90 and fired a burst ahead of them "It's them! Take 'em down!"

Sam continued running ahead and dove behind cover by a large rock, she spotted the rogue team Cam had seen heading towards an Al'Kesh and opened fire as well.

One of them stumbled forward as Sam caught him in the back, but he spun around and fired his weapon spraying Sam's area with fire. A bullet caught her in the midsection sending her rolling back to cover - groaning in pain. Cam had taken a round in the shoulder but held it together, only a little blood coming from the light wound. Cam ducked again and put a hand on Sam's shoulder. "How bad?"

"Vest caught it!" Sam shook her head as she struggled to catch her breath – her neck veins pulsating. "Stop them!"

In the chaos of the moment, Sam fed off he adrenaline and took aim at the rogue team - it was a brutally close fight, but it was still-

A massive plume of flame suddenly erupted between the two groups - the bright light blinded Sam enough to have to cover her eyes as she screamed and fell backwards. Moments later the distinct sound of bullets firing filled the air - They were firing much faster than even a machine gun should have been able to fire, She bit her lip and groaned in pain, blinking the slight burn on her retinas away.

Cam cursed again and dove behind cover - ignoring his burning shoulder. "Clever bastards! I'm not letting them get away!"

Teal'c instinctively aimed where he heard loud footsteps nearby, but held his fire as Rak'nor arrived, only a Zat in his hands. "Teal'c! Carter!"

Cam again grit his teeth. "Thought you went through the gate!"

[SF_and_Coffee]

Whose POV are you writing that from, or do you generally write in omniscient 3rd? The reason I ask is because I generally find it easier to read scenes, especially action scenes, that are told from one character's viewpoint than scenes that head-hop. Head-hopping can get confusing, while being basically in one person's head feels like actually being part of the action rather than watching it from outside as an observer.

[Aragon101]

Whose POV are you writing that from, or do you generally write in omniscient 3rd? The reason I ask is because I generally find it easier to read scenes, especially action scenes, that are told from one character's viewpoint than scenes that head-hop. Head-hopping can get confusing, while being basically in one person's head feels like actually being part of the action rather than watching it from outside as an observer.

I headhopped a bit there, but i wrote it quite awhile ago. were i to write it now, i'd put breaks between the shifts between characters.

The idea is to make the writing feel as fast paced and nearly as tense as the situation itself. At least IMO.

[SF_and_Coffee]

Piece of free advice, worth approximately what you've paid for it:

It's generally best not to headhop within a single chapter, and if you must do so, to only do it once within a chapter. Otherwise, it's really confusing to most readers, and doubly so if you're writing something fast-paced.

Just something I got from a writer's workshop I took part in a few years ago. I switched from 3rd-omniscient to limited-3rd after that and began getting much better reactions to my work.

[WraithRichard]

Transistions are your friend. Especially when dealing wit minds. One can get screwy enough even with good writing.

[SF_and_Coffee]

Yep. Good, clear transitions are key. I will occasionally switch POVs within a chapter, but only if there is a natural, visible break between scenes and/or something that really necessitates a change in POV without a chapter break.

As an example, I have a chapter written with three characters. One is the protagonist, and it is his thoughts I'm most concerned with in the first portion, so I've written that from his POV. I finish that first portion with his observations of the interaction between the other two characters, but then he exits the scene. Problem is, the scene itself continues with the other two characters, and placing a chapter or even an actual scene break there would be horribly awkward, so I simply move into the second character's POV. The transition is clear because there's a pause in the conversation and we clearly see the first character walk away to go do something else, purposely leaving the other two alone so that they can talk (he left to give them privacy and to spare himself the awkwardness of intruding on the conversation he felt they needed to have). It's one of the very few times I ever switch POVs without switching scenes.

I have another chapter in which the POV actually changes twice, beginning with Character A, moving to Character B, and then ending with Character C, but that's a chapter with three clearly defined and separate scenes, none of which is really long enough to constitute a chapter in itself.

[WraithRichard]

I don't put them between scenes or things, but then, I deal with a lot of culture-clash, which makes it important for the reader to know it's QQQ for one person and RRR for another.

They don't want to see the same scene twice, but I can't have people reciting they're cultural views all the time, nor can I just leave them out and hope the the reader can read m mind and fic at the same time.

[SF_and_Coffee]

Oh, no, I don't do the same scene twice (well, not generally) but what I'll do if I have two very different interpretations of a conversation or events from two different people is place the POV in the head of Character A, and make their reactions clear both in their words and in their observations and possibly their internal self-talk, since both the reader and I are hanging out in that person's head at the moment. But I'll have Character B, the non-POV character, make his or her views clear in the dialogue by word choice, body language, etc. Clear enough to the reader, even if Character A perhaps doesn't get it.

[WraithRichard]

The characters don't really lend themselves to that.

It's their fault, I really should blame them.

Daniel has to explain a lot when he realizes body language and words aren't enough.

[SF_and_Coffee]

Actually, that sounds like it's a very good situation in which to play up the disconnect by staying in one character's POV (whichever one would have the more interesting take on the scene) and then reiterating portions of it again from the other character's POV in recollection or in flashback, to a slightly lesser degree. Done correctly, repetition of a scene from two conflicting points of view can actually be a very effective mechanism for conveying exactly HOW complicated the cultural minefield involved really is!

[WraithRichard]

Actually, it wouldn't. That'd make it the same conversation told twice for every chapter.

Plus, (when good for the story), the readers should know how a character is feeling, even though they don't voice it or act on it. Frustration, anger, hatred, confusion and other emotions tell us what they feel, but telling us the specifics can be more immersive and tell us more about the characters.

Omission can be a good tool, there's no arguing that.

[SF_and_Coffee]

Actually, it wouldn't. That'd make it the same conversation told twice for every chapter.

Not really. Like I said, you revisit it with the second character in their reactions, rather than word for word. And it wouldn't even have to be in the same chapter, necessarily. People often reflect on things some time after they occur.

Plus, (when good for the story), the readers should know how a character is feeling, even though they don't voice it or act on it. Frustration, anger, hatred, confusion and other emotions tell us what they feel, but telling us the specifics can be more immersive and tell us more about the characters.

Yes, but showing is better than telling. You can show how someone is feeling via their tone, their word choice and their body language; it doesn't require being inside their head. So you pick the stronger of the two characters for any given conversation (in terms of what they're feeling) and go inside their head, but show what the other character is feeling by other means.

In the writing workshop I referenced earlier, we had a few writing exercises that were built precisely around doing this, which is why it stands out in my mind.

[SaraBahama]

The story I'm trying to finish has quite a bit of head hopping between two characters. I wanted to capture both character's unspoken thoughts and feelings about what is happening; I also started it out planning to use omniscient 3rd (I've been trying to practice different POVs). I HOPE I have good breaks between POVs (I treated it a little like the dialogue...placing a space break between the hops). I have learned my lesson: I prefer limited 3rd!

[WraithRichard]

Yes, but showing is better than telling. You can show how someone is feeling via their tone, their word choice and their body language; it doesn't require being inside their head. So you pick the stronger of the two characters for any given conversation (in terms of what they're feeling) and go inside their head, but show what the other character is feeling by other means.

Showing and telling have a blurred line between them, and telling is never always the lesser. There was a lot of telling in ATWLB. Memories, descriptions of turmoil, regret, and acknowledging the inability to express all of those are in your fic, but they're describe in detail--told before their actions show them. Plus your story is a great example of why I us omniscient: people hide things for different reasons.

It merely works best for what I write; I often need a reader to see into both heads and understand the mamihlapinatapai of the moment or why one is acting in a way that is counterproductive to what they want and they don't know why--postponing the thoughts would be detrimental to the story sometimes.