Fic help.

[SaraBahama]

Thanks SF!

Just making sure there's no existing canon that I will contradict or plausibility issue involved I'll take glossing over whenever the opportunity presents itself!

[fems]

I'm not sure where you think Earth is, but that map isn't really off by very much. We're in a spur of the Orion Arm, at least as near as our current observations can tell.
Diagram of Earth's actual position in the Milky Way
Annotated Roadmap of the Milky Way from NASA

I know where Earth is supposed to be, otherwise I wouldn't comment on it. On the Stargate map it looks as if Earth is on the Norma or Scutum-crux arm, instead of the Orion arm. Unless they are using a different center or have rotated the picture.

then my world would probably be a P2 or P1 […] Not near Abydos...he would have already been conquered by Ra.

If you don’t want it near Abydos, then you shouldn’t pick P1 if you’re using the Stargate map considering that would probably place your planet too close to Earth and Abydos, therefore Abydos wouldn’t be the closest planet to Earth with a Stargate. Unless you don’t mind veering off canon, of course. But, considering Ma’chello’s planet is supposed to be P3W-924 I doubt the Stargate map is correct at all. On the other hand, you could say your minor Lord managed to get his hands on a planet near Abydos after Ra was killed.

So are we talking about near-instantaneous travel? If so, then what took so long for Apophis to zoom over to Earth and whump us?? I am not familiar with these speeds and distances, and I'm just trying to get it straight in my head. If I never even reference this in my fic, I just want to know for myself. Any help?? Anyone...anyone...Buhler...

Actually, it didn’t take him all that long. Just a couple of hours from P3R-233 to Earth.

Spoiler:

CARTER
Teal'c, how fast can this ship go?
TEAL'C
A Goa'uld ha'tak vessel can travel at ten times the speed of light.
CARTER
Okay, so if we are heading to Earth, then we have a long time.
O'NEILL
Based on what?
CARTER
Based on the coordinates of the planet we gated to.
O'NEILL
We didn't gate to a planet, we gated to a ship.
CARTER
Yeah, but that ship had to have been in orbit around or on the surface of a planet in order for those 'gate coordinates to work. So, based on the location of those coordinates, even if we were traveling at ten times the speed of light, it would take at least a year to get to Earth, probably more.
[…]
DANIEL
I thought you said we couldn't be there for at least a year.
CARTER
I guess this ship can go way faster than ten times the speed of light.

That was the end of season one and considering Apophis has dealt with SG-1/Earth for about a year by then, he probably finally had enough and decided to take them out. Or maybe he needed the time to build himself a fleet of these new ships, since they were obviously built after Teal'c’s betrayal.

[SF_and_Coffee]

I know where Earth is supposed to be, otherwise I wouldn't comment on it. On the Stargate map it looks as if Earth is on the Norma or Scutum-crux arm, instead of the Orion arm. Unless they are using a different center or have rotated the picture.

And in fact, that's precisely my point: that picture has always looked rotated to me, and I suppose I just assumed it would appear that way to anyone. It looks to me like they put Earth slightly more toward the outer edge of the Orion arm than we actually are, but not by terribly much. My understanding is that we're actually in something of a spur, but toward the spur's inside edge, rather than on the arm's outer edge per se. But all in all, it isn't a half-bad rendering, despite its flaws. Some correction to the positions of certain planets would certainly improve it, but the logic given for a possible explanation of the coordinate system that was never clearly explained in canon is (if you'll pardon the pun) stellar. I have a certain respect for people who even try to figure out and then explain such things, even though admittedly we're all working in a fictional universe that requires a certain amount of handwavium to even function, on a variety of levels.

And you'd be surprised at the number of people who come into a forum like this one or something similar, speaking of what they "know" to be ironclad fact, when they're actually way off-base. The internet is an interesting place wherein I've had debates with people who sincerely believe or "know" any number of odd things. Had you mentioned what you actually thought was wrong about the map in your earlier post, I'd have thought, "Oh, okay, this is a person who actually understands the structure of our galaxy," and would likely have responded directly to that as I'm doing now. In any case, pardon my snark -- yesterday was quite a long day.

If you don’t want it near Abydos, then you shouldn’t pick P1 if you’re using the Stargate map considering that would probably place your planet too close to Earth and Abydos, therefore Abydos wouldn’t be the closest planet to Earth with a Stargate. Unless you don’t mind veering off canon, of course. But, considering Ma’chello’s planet is supposed to be P3W-924 I doubt the Stargate map is correct at all. On the other hand, you could say your minor Lord managed to get his hands on a planet near Abydos after Ra was killed.

The problem with that is that Ra was killed in or about 1996, which doesn't work when you're talking about a minor lord whose had control of a planet for centuries, as is the case in most SG fic I've encountered (and I'm somewhat familiar with the direction Sara is taking in her story).

Hmmm... traveling at or below C is much too slow for story purposes, while 32k x C seems too fast. However, even 10x C seems like it would be too slow, considering that it would take a ha'tak 6 years to make a journey of 60 LY, and 60 LY is practically next door in astronomical terms. Pesky physics; always making life difficult for SF writers.

*wanders off to engage in mathematics in an effort to decide whether that 32k figure is indeed too fast, or whether her mind is merely playing tricks on her*

Or perhaps we ought to simply page Mathpiglet to the white courtesy keyboard...

[SF_and_Coffee]

On further reflection, and as my brain absorbs the day's first application of caffeine, it occurs to me that perhaps 32k is a useful figure after all.

Assume a planet 100LY distant from Earth. A Goa'uld wants to relocate slaves from Earth to this hypothetical other planet, via ship so that they can be transported in bulk, along with sufficient Earth flora and fauna to settle them successfully in their new home rather than relying solely on whatever is native to that world. He loads up a ha'tak or some other ship capable of the same speed, and off they go.

Traveling at C, the journey would take 100 years (as observed by anyone not on that ship; let's not even start on the topic of subjective time due to relativity... I don't need a headache), and the show certainly makes it sound like Goa'uld ships aren't anywhere near that slow. At 10x that speed, it's still a decade-long journey; still far too slow according to the show. Naaaah...

So, 32k x C? Well, 100 years = 36,525 days. (365 and one-quarter days in a year, multiplied by 100.)

36,525 / 32,000 = 1.14 (rounding off at 2 decimal places)

Okay, so that 100LY journey would take just over a day if the ship is traveling at top speed. Hmmmm.... We'll throw in the thought that perhaps they don't often travel at top speed due to power considerations, etc.... *ponders*...

[mathpiglet]

I'm a slacker writer and reader

When reading a fic, I've never called up a star chart to see if the author got it write, nor do I consult one when I write a fic. I want to make up a planet's designation, i do just that, make it up. The most checking I do is make sure it's not already used by the show (or if I'm revisiting a canon planet, i'll make sure I use the right designation)

So....from the POV of a reader, you having Jack sever an artery off world and still walk 3 miles to the gate or something like that is far more likely to draw me out of a story than what planetary designation you use.

Yes. Wise, very wise.

I'll admit, I do find it jarring when someone writes an SG-1 fic using a planetary designation that clearly doesn't fit with the norm of the show. Like having more than six characters in its address, or making it all letters, or all numbers, beginning with a letter that isn't a P, putting the dash in the wrong place, trying to spell things with the combination, etc. I'm just detail-oriented enough when I'm reading to notice that it sounds or looks "wrong". But beyond that, I'd have to be looking at a map like the ones we're discussing to really say, "Hey, that isn't how it should be!"

Basically, as long as it's some form of P-number-letter-dash-number-number-number, I'm good, because that's the format that was used for planets in the Milky Way galaxy.

When I wrote my Highlander/Stargate crossover the planet's designation was P23-15T. Anyone who knows Highlander should recognize the name Zeist in there which was the ill-conceived notion in the second movie that immortals came from a planet named Zeist (also a town in the Netherlands BTW). I was surprised that nobody got it!

[fems]

And in fact, that's precisely my point: that picture has always looked rotated to me, and I suppose I just assumed it would appear that way to anyone.

The problem with the picture being rotated is that the supposed location of Earth would then be too "low" and instead of on/in the Orion Arm, it's on the Perseus Arm (no longer in the Orion arm area) and too far "down" the arm as well. Not to mention that the center is exactly the same as in your NASA picture, which should have rotated along with the rest of the picture.

In Solitudes you can see that on the "chart" that the planets aren't divided into neat little areas either (e.g. P5N-44, P5L-13, P5C-12, PX7-60, P5C-11, PX3-772, P4A-..). Which is probably because of the "binary code the computer uses for extrapolation", to borrow from Sam.

Like I said before, unless we know more about who made the map it’s difficult to tell what they based it on, what their motivation was and whether they rotated the picture or not. Where did you get it from? Just via google (images) or was it linked somewhere with some kind of explanation?

And you'd be surprised at the number of people who come into a forum like this one or something similar, speaking of what they "know" to be ironclad fact, when they're actually way off-base.

I’m not. While I’m new to this forum, this isn’t my first picnic. And I did mention what I thought was wrong with the map (Earth being in the wrong location), because I too have encountered such people and prefer to hear arguments instead of random remarks.

The problem with that is that Ra was killed in or about 1996…

As for the Minor Lord, isn't it possible that he used to be in the service of Ra? I won't claim to have watched the original movie, so I don't know if Ra used under lords or not. But we know from Jolinar's Memories that

Spoiler:

Bynarr was Sokar's appointed leader for Netu and when he (Bynarr) was killed by his First Prime/Na'onak/Apophis it was Na'onak/Apophis who then replaced him as lord of Netu.

Couldn't that work for SaraBahamas' fic? That after Ra was killed, her Minor Lord decided to keep the planet he'd already been ruling. After all, what's one planet in an entire domain?
As for the speed… we know from Lost City that it takes two days to reach Praclarush in a teltak with hyperspeed . Not sure if that’s of any help, but figured I’d mention it anyway.

[Choo1701]

I was surprised that nobody got it!

^ it happens. You insert refrences and *sigh* you seem to be the ONLY person who knows their there!

[WraithRichard]

^ it happens. You insert refrences and *sigh* you seem to be the ONLY person who knows their there!

Been there. No one knew who Solomon Grundy was in one of my fics.

[SF_and_Coffee]

Fems,

You only said it was in the wrong location. From that, one could infer anything from your actual argument to that you might have thought the Earth is the center of the galaxy. (I've run into people online who think that. They scare me.) Again, you weren't terribly specific with that first comment.

As for where I found the picture, I did link to the GW thread where I'd first seen it. You could follow that and have your questions answered with a simple click.

Motivation? Gee, I don't know. Interest in the show, perhaps? Ask the map's creator; I don't pretend to read minds.

And I can pull diagrams and artist's renderings of the Milky Way and Earth's position in it from thirty different scientific sources, and they won't all show us in the exact same position on the page. The galaxy will be rotated this way or that, perhaps showing our area at the top, or the bottom, or either side (it's entirely possible to turn a map upside down, after all). And every one of them could also be off by some fraction or other anyway, because quite frankly, no one knows beyond what observations we've been able to make from Earth or its near orbit. It's not like anyone's gone outside the galaxy and taken a picture and sent it back with a red X and "You Are Here" marked on it, you know? Astronomers don't even all agree on the entire shape of our galaxy yet. (Trust me; I've sat in on discussions on that subject with an astronomer friend or two.) It isn't like looking at a map of the US and pointing out that Pittsburgh's in the wrong place.

[SF_and_Coffee]

Oh, and on Sara's fic: no, that wouldn't work either, I don't think. It's a timeline thing. I could be wrong, and if I am, she'll correct that.

In any case, not to worry: I'm sure there are plenty of worlds in the Gateverse ruled by minor System Lords that are off the beaten path, but not so far off it that they can't make for a good story.

[Choo1701]

Been there. No one knew who Solomon Grundy was in one of my fics.

*puts down comics with an expression of 'shock' on ones face*

[fems]

I'm guessing today was another long day, eh? For someone who doesn’t pretend to read minds you do make a lot of assumptions. I was simply pointing it out because I was excited to see the map when you first linked to it, only to come down when I did a bit of mind rotating and realized Earth was in the wrong location. Instead of introducing myself on a forum as a know it all who immediately starts pointing out everything that’s wrong with elaborative explanations and links, I figured I’d just point out it was incorrect before other people would get too excited. Since you immediately assumed I wasn’t aware of what I was talking about, I elaborated.

Another map may be found here (click the spoiler thingy), and in fact the thread that post is in is Gateworld's own thread regarding stargate maps.

To be honest, I hadn’t looked further than the post with the second map to see what it looked like. Until now, I hadn’t realized the other (first) map was mentioned in the same thread or that you were trying to convey that.

I’ve looked at a dozen or so diagrams/artist’s renderings, but the location of Earth is still wrong. Just look at the leftover length of the arm. Or the center, as I pointed out earlier; it’s always the same and thus it should have rotated along with Earth’s (or even our solar system’s) supposed location. And I have no idea where Pittsburgh is, so I wouldn’t point it out unless I’d looked into it.

[SF_and_Coffee]

I'm guessing today was another long day, eh? For someone who doesn’t pretend to read minds you do make a lot of assumptions.

Today only got long when you showed up.

Now, can we cut the snark and interact like adults, please?

You expected me to assume you knew what you were talking about, on zero evidence. So instead, I simply noted that I had no idea where you thought Earth was. That's the truth; I didn't have any idea where you thought it was, since you hadn't elaborated in your initial post on the subject. Don't ask me to read your mind and then snark at me about mind-reading.

I was simply pointing it out because I was excited to see the map when you first linked to it, only to come down when I did a bit of mind rotating and realized Earth was in the wrong location. Instead of introducing myself on a forum as a know it all who immediately starts pointing out everything that’s wrong with elaborative explanations and links, I figured I’d just point out it was incorrect before other people would get too excited.

Next time, try pointing out WHAT you see as wrong, rather than just saying "that's wrong". You'll get more respect that way. More importantly, you'll be better understood.

Since you immediately assumed I wasn’t aware of what I was talking about, I elaborated.

I assumed no such thing. Instead, I made my own observations regarding the map, and noted that I didn't know what yours were. it occurred to me later that my tone (since tone doesn't always translate well on fora) could have been interpreted as snarky, especially given my mental state at the time I'd posted, so I made mention of that. I wasn't attempting to start a mudslinging contest, and I'd prefer we not put the mods hereabouts through that, if you get my drift.

To be honest, I hadn’t looked further than the post with the second map to see what it looked like. Until now, I hadn’t realized the other (first) map was mentioned in the same thread or that you were trying to convey that.

Fair enough.

I’ve looked at a dozen or so diagrams/artist’s renderings, but the location of Earth is still wrong. Just look at the leftover length of the arm. Or the center, as I pointed out earlier; it’s always the same and thus it should have rotated along with Earth’s (or even our solar system’s) supposed location. And I have no idea where Pittsburgh is, so I wouldn’t point it out unless I’d looked into it.

Pittsburgh is an example. I could have used NYC, Chicago, or for that matter, Rabbit Hash, KY.

Bottom line: the map isn't terrible. Want a better one? Make one. It's that simple. I do, however, find the logic implied behind the system of coordinates quite elegant.

[Choo1701]

I’ve looked at a dozen or so diagrams/artist’s renderings, but the location of Earth is still wrong.

Not as wrong as the anatomy of a character i've just drawn! *head to table* GAH!

Ugh, Fic Help? Well at the moment i've got the creativness (working on another 'idea' sure) just not the motivation. Or focus. (ie: ideas for other projects just don't seem to be working out).

Can anyone help? Any advice?

[Sealurk]

Ugh, Fic Help? Well at the moment i've got the creativness (working on another 'idea' sure) just not the motivation. Or focus. (ie: ideas for other projects just don't seem to be working out).

Can anyone help? Any advice?

Let me guess. Brimful of ideas, overflowing with imagination, but your get up and go has got up and gone. I know this feeling intimately (partly why SGR stalled) and I'm pretty sure I'm not the only one.

Try working on something very different - the change of gears can sometimes help to kind of 'kick start' the engine, as it were.

Alternatively, step back from what you're working on, and don't work to a deadline if you can avoid it. The more you pressure yourself to do something creative, the more the motivation tends to dry up.

If all else fails, I recommend really enjoyable food and drink and a night of just watching telly/playing video games/watching a DVD etc, something enjoyable and relaxing.

Disclaimer: This advice does not come from a professional. Sealurk cannot be held responsible for loss of creativity, motivation, organs, limbs, blood, lifeforce, memory or finances. All procedures are carried out at the victim's patient's own risk.