Fic help.

[Nikki Alexander]

It's never been stated whether or not the retrovirus worked on Sam (or other people other than the ones we know it worked on); I looked into that a couple of fics ago. We never saw her initialize any Ancient tech or given any other hint that it might have worked, but nothing to suggest it didn't either (she was never put into the position).

We don't know whether the Ancient Repository needs to be activated by someone with the ATA gene (remember, it only came out of the wall once Jack stepped into the ring), can only be used by someone with the ATA gene or if it was just a coincidence that it worked on Jack both times. We have seen Daniel use a similar but not the same device in Merlin's cave, which was more of an interface or computer, rather than it downloading all the knowledge of the Ancients into him.

We also have no idea about the naquadah; the only ones that come close would be Shifu and Adria, but we have no idea if either of them has naquadah in their systems. However, we have had discussions about genetics and whether passing on the ATA gene is possible or not. That was a couple of weeks (months?) ago, so I'd suggest you browse a couple of pages back or use the search function of the thread. It shouldn't be too difficult to find, as this thread hasn't been that active until recently. I also think we've discussed someone like Sam or Vala passing on naquadah but I can't be sure.

I have read a fic where Sam's daughter comes from the future and it's mentioned that she has traces in her blood, but I wasn't sure whether the ATA gene could be present along side traces of Naquadah, but I'll have a re-read of those posts about it. Thanks for the help though.

[fems]

I have read a fic where Sam's daughter comes from the future and it's mentioned that she has traces in her blood, but I wasn't sure whether the ATA gene could be present along side traces of Naquadah, but I'll have a re-read of those posts about it. Thanks for the help though.

I recently saw a fic in which Sam and Jack had 90+ kids but that doesn't mean it's true or even credible...

The thing is, we have no idea where the naquadah comes from. Yeah, we know it's from the symbiote and that without one Jaffa have no naquadah in their system but former hosts do, like Sam, Vala and that one from Cimmeria. Plus, we know Nirrti's bomb dissolved into Cassandra's body but she apparently still had naquadah in her system long after since she was able to sense Jolinar in Sam in season 2.

So, Jaffa don't have their own naquadah (it's contained within the symbiote but perhaps it is also in their pouch) but it flows freely in the blood of (former) hosts and Cassandra. The way they lose the symbiote doesn't appear to matter, since Sam's died and was reabsorbed into her body, while Vala's was extracted by the Tok'ra (so she has naquadah but shouldn't have the protein marker). Still, it makes absolutely no sense for any former host (or Cassandra) to retain the amount of naquadah in their system for years, unless the symbiote somehow manages to make their body produce it.

They are supposed to be wrapped around the brain stem and be able to manipulate, well, everything, so it makes sense that they can also influence the hormones/neurotransmitters in the body, and perhaps even manipulate the host's DNA to make them create naquadah. Otherwise former hosts (and Cassandra) would lose the naquadah over the years as it's filtrated out of their bodies, without them ingesting (not sure that's safe, though) more. Still, both Sam and Vala still have the naquadah years after their symbiote has been removed/killed...

Also, it's unlikely the naquadah would have infiltrated the ova of the female host and genetically speaking, those have already been produced before birth (of said host) so even if the symbiote could genetically manipulate the host's DNA the ova would probably be safe from this. Therefore, it's unlikely a female host could pass on a naquadah "gene" or something, although depending on how naquadah within the body actually works I guess it's possible it could be passed from mother to child through the placenta via diffusion, like oxygen and nutrients. But again, we have no idea how naquadah supposedly works in a human body and even if it was passed on during pregnancy or child birth then the amount of naquadah should eventually be filtered out of the baby's body, unless they too have this magical naquadah-producing-something.


ETA:
The ATA gene is, as the name implies, on a genetic level. Therefore this gene can be passed onto offspring, there's just no telling of how it works exactly. In a way it's unlikely the ATA gene is dominant, since in that case almost everyone should probably have it considering the former Ancients supposedly interbred with humans. You should look at the previous posts about this because I'm not going to type it out all over again.

There is no reason to assume someone with an ATA gene cannot have naquadah in their system, or vice versa. Otherwise the Goa'uld probably wouldn't have liked Jack as a host, either. Since we don't know exactly how the ATA gene activates or allows interaction with Ancient tech, it's pretty much impossible to say one way or another whether someone with the ATA gene and naquadah (with or without symbiote) in their system can operate/active Ancient tech.

It might also depend on the timeline; when did the Ancients start with their gene-locked tech (and was the ATA gene naturally occurring or artificially introduced into their body?), where were they at the time (galaxy-wise) and how prevalent were the Goa'uld in the MW galaxy? If the Ancients saw the Goa'uld as a threat then it's possible they somehow excluded persons with naquadah in their blood to be able to use their technology, even if they no longer have a symbiote. But again that depends on where the ATA gene comes from.

So, as you can see there are a lot of "ifs" for this situation. In my opinion, you can do whatever the hell you like as long as you give a proper explanation. For example, I've had Sam pass on the naquadah to her offspring, but that's because her body produced it via unknown cells in her bone marrow after Jolinar. I've also had Jack pass on his ATA gene on occasion. Other times neither passed it on.

[SF_and_Coffee]

I have a sort of hypothetical question, I don't know whether anyone will be able to answer, if not no worries, but I thought I'd try anyway.

Say if a person had traces of Naquadah because they'd been a host temporarily would they then pass it on if they had a child. I mean can that be passed on. [...]

It's just an idea I'm working on for a future fic, but I didn't want to run with the idea I have if it's not going to work.

I doubt that a father could pass the naquadah to offspring via sperm. However, you might be able to make a case for naquadah passing from mother to child during gestation, supposing that something like naquadah hypothetically crosses the placenta.

Will that work for your purposes?

[SF_and_Coffee]

The thing is, we have no idea where the naquadah comes from. Yeah, we know it's from the symbiote and that without one Jaffa have no naquadah in their system but former hosts do, like Sam, Vala and that one from Cimmeria. Plus, we know Nirrti's bomb dissolved into Cassandra's body but she apparently still had naquadah in her system long after since she was able to sense Jolinar in Sam in season 2.

Well, remember that naquadah is a metal, and like any other metal it isn't produced by an organism although it can be absorbed by them. We don't know why Tok'ra and Goa'uld originally absorbed and incorporated it into their tissues (other than the primitive ones found in that one pool who don't have it), but we're told that once contained in a host, the symbiote apparently leaches a certain amount of it into the host's bloodstream. Why? Who knows?

it makes absolutely no sense for any former host (or Cassandra) to retain the amount of naquadah in their system for years, unless the symbiote somehow manages to make their body produce it.

Well, they wouldn't be able to make the host's body produce it (see section above) but on the other hand, if the host's body has no mechanism for excreting it, then yes it would remain in their body. It's entirely plausible to say that humans simply lack any biochemical mechanism for extracting and excreting the naquadah, so it just remains in circulation for life. It then becomes plausible that a trace of it could cross the placenta during gestation if the mother is a former host.

[Nikki Alexander]

I recently saw a fic in which Sam and Jack had 90+ kids but that doesn't mean it's true or even credible...

The thing is, we have no idea where the naquadah comes from. Yeah, we know it's from the symbiote and that without one Jaffa have no naquadah in their system but former hosts do, like Sam, Vala and that one from Cimmeria. Plus, we know Nirrti's bomb dissolved into Cassandra's body but she apparently still had naquadah in her system long after since she was able to sense Jolinar in Sam in season 2.

So, Jaffa don't have their own naquadah (it's contained within the symbiote but perhaps it is also in their pouch) but it flows freely in the blood of (former) hosts and Cassandra. The way they lose the symbiote doesn't appear to matter, since Sam's died and was reabsorbed into her body, while Vala's was extracted by the Tok'ra (so she has naquadah but shouldn't have the protein marker). Still, it makes absolutely no sense for any former host (or Cassandra) to retain the amount of naquadah in their system for years, unless the symbiote somehow manages to make their body produce it.

They are supposed to be wrapped around the brain stem and be able to manipulate, well, everything, so it makes sense that they can also influence the hormones/neurotransmitters in the body, and perhaps even manipulate the host's DNA to make them create naquadah. Otherwise former hosts (and Cassandra) would lose the naquadah over the years as it's filtrated out of their bodies, without them ingesting (not sure that's safe, though) more. Still, both Sam and Vala still have the naquadah years after their symbiote has been removed/killed...

Also, it's unlikely the naquadah would have infiltrated the ova of the female host and genetically speaking, those have already been produced before birth (of said host) so even if the symbiote could genetically manipulate the host's DNA the ova would probably be safe from this. Therefore, it's unlikely a female host could pass on a naquadah "gene" or something, although depending on how naquadah within the body actually works I guess it's possible it could be passed from mother to child through the placenta via diffusion, like oxygen and nutrients. But again, we have no idea how naquadah supposedly works in a human body and even if it was passed on during pregnancy or child birth then the amount of naquadah should eventually be filtered out of the baby's body, unless they too have this magical naquadah-producing-something.


ETA:
The ATA gene is, as the name implies, on a genetic level. Therefore this gene can be passed onto offspring, there's just no telling of how it works exactly. In a way it's unlikely the ATA gene is dominant, since in that case almost everyone should probably have it considering the former Ancients supposedly interbred with humans. You should look at the previous posts about this because I'm not going to type it out all over again.

There is no reason to assume someone with an ATA gene cannot have naquadah in their system, or vice versa. Otherwise the Goa'uld probably wouldn't have liked Jack as a host, either. Since we don't know exactly how the ATA gene activates or allows interaction with Ancient tech, it's pretty much impossible to say one way or another whether someone with the ATA gene and naquadah (with or without symbiote) in their system can operate/active Ancient tech.

It might also depend on the timeline; when did the Ancients start with their gene-locked tech (and was the ATA gene naturally occurring or artificially introduced into their body?), where were they at the time (galaxy-wise) and how prevalent were the Goa'uld in the MW galaxy? If the Ancients saw the Goa'uld as a threat then it's possible they somehow excluded persons with naquadah in their blood to be able to use their technology, even if they no longer have a symbiote. But again that depends on where the ATA gene comes from.

So, as you can see there are a lot of "ifs" for this situation. In my opinion, you can do whatever the hell you like as long as you give a proper explanation. For example, I've had Sam pass on the naquadah to her offspring, but that's because her body produced it via unknown cells in her bone marrow after Jolinar. I've also had Jack pass on his ATA gene on occasion. Other times neither passed it on.

That was my main reason for asking whether it's possible, because I know what someone's written in a fanfic might not actually be true and something that someone's come up with. But that helps me a bit to make a decision on which way to go. Thanks for the help.

I doubt that a father could pass the naquadah to offspring via sperm. However, you might be able to make a case for naquadah passing from mother to child during gestation, supposing that something like naquadah hypothetically crosses the placenta.

Will that work for your purposes?

I was actually thinking of the mother, but I guess I can tweak it a bit and just go with what works for my fic. Thanks for the advice though.

[sbz]

I have a sort of hypothetical question, I don't know whether anyone will be able to answer, if not no worries, but I thought I'd try anyway.

Say if a person had traces of Naquadah because they'd been a host temporarily would they then pass it on if they had a child. I mean can that be passed on. And also if that person was to have a child with someone with the ATA gene could that child possibly inherit the ATA gene, I know that if a parent had the ATA the child might not necessarily inherit it. But I wondered whether it was possible for a child to have both the ATA gene and the traces of Naquadah in them. I know the ATA retrovirus won't work on Sam, and I was sure that it was explained that it was because she has Naquadah in her system but maybe I imagined it, but it just got me thinking.

It's just an idea I'm working on for a future fic, but I didn't want to run with the idea I have if it's not going to work.

Wow, some people have put a lot of thought into this issue! I'll just add that based on the plethora of Jack/Sam Super!Kid fics out there, many people seem willing to accept that passing on both the gene and naquadah is not only possible but a foregone conclusion were they to have kids.

[Laxian of Earth]

and why should the father be un-able to pass his naquadah on? (i mean: sperm is produced as long as a healthy male adult is alive - and with the stuff flowing freely around in the body, would it not "contaminate" the sperm-cells, too?)

greetings LAX
ps: naquadah is a metal, yes, but somehow the symbiotes have it in them (and it reacts to other naquadah near by thus the symbiote detection of other symbiotes or (former) hosts - unless masked by certain chemicals) and they give some of it to their hosts...well, would then a symbiote not grow "weaker" when it came to using goa'uld technology (if it could not somehow replace what it lost) - i mean systemlords might not have much of a problem, they do not change hosts all that often, as they use the sarcophagus, but the Tok'ra on the other hand or someone like Seth/Setesh (the one goa'uld found hiding on earth)? - just a thought, because well if you constantly secrete something into your host then it will be gone once you used it up...
pps: it might happen that Sam and Jack pass on both genetic/blood-anomalies but it is not certain (both things are rare, one is a non-dominant gene that not everybody has and the other is a (blood) condition that comes with having had a symbiote (people who had their's removed also have it...wounder why it is never shown that Jack has that now as well, as he has had a symbiote, too) - so passing on the naquadah might now be a given, but the gene? - well, i am not so sure)

[SF_and_Coffee]

and why should the father be un-able to pass his naquadah on? (i mean: sperm is produced as long as a healthy male adult is alive - and with the stuff flowing freely around in the body, would it not "contaminate" the sperm-cells, too?)

Because sperm don't contain blood, so there's really no mechanism for passing the naquadah that way. It could pass via the placenta from mother to child, however. Sperm are essentially just packets of DNA with mobility equipment attached.

naquadah is a metal, yes, but somehow the symbiotes have it in them

Yes, just like we humans have all kinds of metals and other elements in us. But our bodies don't manufacture those; we ingest them or absorb them in other ways from our environment.

and they give some of it to their hosts...well, would then a symbiote not grow "weaker" when it came to using goa'uld technology (if it could not somehow replace what it lost)

Personally, I would think that a Goa'uld or a Tok'ra would be able to alter their host's biological systems in such a way that if more naquadah were needed, they could probably absorb it as a trace element via diet or other means. There'd be little need to implement excretory functions for it, though.

- i mean systemlords might not have much of a problem, they do not change hosts all that often, as they use the sarcophagus, but the Tok'ra on the other hand or someone like Seth/Setesh (the one goa'uld found hiding on earth)? - just a thought, because well if you constantly secrete something into your host then it will be gone once you used it up...

Ah, but if your host can't excrete the naquadah, then you don't have to continually secrete it into them. Once you've put just enough into their bloodstream for whatever reasons it needs to be there, the level should remain constant unless your host winds up losing a lot of blood. So it's unlikely to get "used up".

[Skydiver]

I've always viewed it as, the naqahdah is in your blood and gets absorbed by your tissues, like lead or even mercury, once it's in your system, it's in there. It permeates your tissues and never totally goes away. WHich is why Sam years later, can still use goa'uld tech.

In my version of hte world, she got it from jolinar decomposing inside her. Vala had dozens of years /decades to absorb it from her symbiote. jack only had a few hours and the goa'uld left him so he should have little to none. Kendra had decades or more, and Sarah had a few years. Cassandra got hers from the bomb decomposing into her body.

As others have said the ATA gene is part of you. Just like there are people in europe and the rest of the world today that share the DNA of the neanderthals.

I once thought of a plot bunny and seem to recall that the wraith couldn't feed on a certain person and I always wondered/thought if being a goa'uld with the naqahdah made one immune to being fed on by the wraith, which is why there were no goa'uld in the peggy galaxy and vice versa. They were poison to each other. The goauld were not going to tolerate usurpers, the wraith were not going to tolerate people they couldn't use as food.

[Laxian of Earth]

would the naquadah not be in the cells as well (via the blood) even in the ones that produce sperm?

greetings LAX
ps: it might not get used up by one host, but by a string of them (the Tok'ra can only stay in one host for about 200 years or so - but they have a livespan of thousands of years if they switch hosts after their time is up)...well just a thought anyway
pps: i am not talking about the symbiote Hathor gave him (that was destroyed...also it was destroyed in his body (!) so yes, there should be a lot of the stuff (!) but later he had that Tok'ra (Kanan? or something like that) in him (and that was not just a few hours - more time then Sam had with Jolinar for sure - also that symbiote did not die in him)

[SF_and_Coffee]

would the naquadah not be in the cells to (via the blood) even in the ones that produce sperm?

Not necessarily, and even if so, that doesn't mean it would end up in the sperm in any measurable amount. Sperm are so incredibly tiny that they wouldn't likely carry enough naquadah to be detectable in the resulting infant. Remember, the naquada could only be a tiny fraction of the total content of the sperm cell, and sperm cells are tiny to begin with. Then there's the fact that a full-term infant consists of somewhere between 1 trillion and 5 trillion cells... while an adult has 100 trillion to 500 trillion... now imagine a tiny fraction of a single cell's worth of naquadah. It wouldn't even be detectable, let alone be enough to have a measurable effect.

On the other hand, if naquadah traces continually passed through the placenta from the mother to the developing fetus, then you could get a much higher amount, possibly enough to be detectable and to actually have an effect. Remember, though, that the resulting child or adult will still only have the amount of naquadah they were born with... unless they acquire more by other means.

An intriguing possibility, of course, might be the idea that if the symbiotes alter their hosts in such a way as to enable them to absorb naquadah from the environment, and if that alteration somehow affected the germ cells in such a way as to be passed along to potential offspring (possible precedent having been set by the idea that two hosts could have a child that possessed the genetic memory of the Goa'uld/Tok'ra), and if such offspring were then placed in an environment where naquadah was actually available to be absorbed (say, not on Earth, in other words) then you might suddenly have an individual with naquadah showing up in their system.

[Nikki Alexander]

OK, cool, thanks. Well I've definitely got a lot to think about. Thanks for the help.

[BruTak]

Since we're talking about Naquadah, was it ever established how radioactive (or not) it was?

Would it register on a Gieger counter as being above normal background radiation?

[fems]

Since we're talking about Naquadah, was it ever established how radioactive (or not) it was?

Would it register on a Gieger counter as being above normal background radiation?

No, it's not radioactive. Naquadria, however, is.

[BruTak]

Ok. Thanks again, Fems.