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[Ulkesh47]

I always thought that the unveiling of Prometheus was pretty sudden with little lead-up, given the huge implications of Earth's first interstellar starship.

Also, I think that the ships definitely lessened the sense of tangibility to the show. What I mean is that it made "Stargate" less of a hands-on show in terms of missions etc.

Even so, I would say that the ships did more good than harm, opening up possibilities for new stories.

[samcarterrules]

Hi Darren and David,

This weeks podcast was a great trip down memory lane, thanks!

Answering this weeks listener question

I couldn't say that the introduction of ships was harmful as such, but I do think it changed the stories that were told, it stopped being about how do the team fend for them self on anther planet, to, its OK the SGC knows where we are a ship will be here soon. Also with the ships, the enemy slowly became faceless as the show turned more and more to space battles, the fight for freedom suddenly lost heart. We talked about characters being 'wallpapered' well IMHO the Stargate its self was the most 'wallpapered' character especially in SGA and the last two seasons of SG1.
This is one of my concerns about SGU, that TPTB might forget that the word Stargate is in the title and just concentrate on the Destiny but I really hope I'm wrong on this.

[Apollo_Mechanic]

Hello all, Brad from Australia here.
i don't feel ships were a bad direction for SG-1, look back at episodes like season six's MEMENTO, where it begins as a ship episode but then they must rediscover the stargate so to speak. and season 9's off the grid. these episodes have shown there could have been some great stories dealing with ships and stargates.

keep up the great work.

[DizzyDrea]

Wow, two weeks in a row you've gotten me out of my dark corner!

I think introducing ships to Stargate was a mixed bag. On SG-1, I think it was a natural progression. By the time the Prometheus was introduced, the SGC had already had a great deal of contact with ships from various alien cultures. Most of the allies and enemies that they encounter throughout the show have ships, even if they do use the Stargate. The two technologies compliment each other, enabling a wider variety of storytelling.

On Atlantis, having ships capable of inter-galactic travel sort-of killed the whole premise of the show: a group of explorers on a one-way trip to another galaxy. They were supposed to be stranded, under threat of annihilation and trying desperately to just survive. Having a ship that can come to the rescue anytime basically robbed the show of a sense of jeopardy and lightened the dark tone significantly. The introduction of the puddle jumper and space gates was an interesting twist, but did little to enhance the storytelling--there were very few episodes that would have been significantly different if the gate were on the planet instead of in orbit.

[xenomorph1211]

This Week’s Listener Question: Did the introduction of Earth’s space ships improve or harm the storytelling on Stargate SG-1? What did the ships add, and what (if anything) do you think they took away from the series?


Earth spaceships I think were a great thing to add to Stargate. I know a lot of people like Darren and David for example don’t like starships in the sense that they show less and less of the Stargate itself. Many people don’t like Earth being technologically superior, either, they like it more when we’re the underdogs. I really don’t like it that way. I like it when we can kick some serious ass with our ships. I know a lot of people were angry at the last episodes of both SG1 and Atlantis being about ships. I think our ships add so much more depth to the story. For a long time just the thought of a Goa’uld hatak drove huge amounts of fear into the Earthlings. Two hataks in season one was like the apocalypse, because we couldn’t do nothing about it; and the interdiction of ships changed that. No longer did we have to worry about getting pushed around too much; we could actually stand up for ourselves. By the end of both the series, earth ships were more powerful than any other ship out there. So yes ships vastly improved the story telling on SG1.

[dmpv_74]

i think the introduction of ships were a great idea. Not only did it give the show a new level but it was a nice new way that the team didn't have to always rely on the stargate. it also introduced a whole range of new characters, mine being Col. Caldwell, who i always look forward to seeing. the only down side saw involving the ships was having "Unending" the last SG1 set on a ship. But apart from that i love them i hope they live on in Universe.

[Optimus Chekov]

To say it harmed it is a very conservative thing to say. To me it almost suggests that the first season should never have changed and that it should have continued the "SG1 goes to a planet, Goa'uld is doing something bad, SG1 Stops them". The ships open up the universe of Stargate and tricks us into remembring that the Galaxy is not one giant canadian forest but literally worlds. The use of ships has made Stargate as a believeable reality much more likely.

[Darren]

Episode #33 is now available!

Was the introduction of Earth’s interstellar ships a good thing or a bad thing for the Stargate franchise? In this week’s podcast Darren and David look at the history of the fleet and its impact on the way that SG-1 and Atlantis told stories — both in adding new dimensions, and in taking attention away from the gate itself as the show’s centerpiece. We have our thoughts, and we’ll also hear what listeners have to say on the topic.

Also this week:

Stargate News! The latest headlines from the Stargate universe

Interview Preview! Get the first peek at our upcoming interview with actor Neil Jackson

Listener Mail! This week your comments on ships in Stargate are right there with ours in the main discussion

This Week's Listener Question: Are Replicators alive? Are they sentient? And do they have rights?

CALL US! You can call the hotline and leave us a voicemail any time, day or night. Give us your thoughts on this week's listener question, leave feedback on the podcast itself, or talk about anything Stargate-related you want.

Dial: 616-712-1647 (long distance rates apply)

Thanks for listening and contributing!

[Eternal Density]

In regard to the idea of disabling all our ships' hyperdrive ability by 'running out of naquadah': while it's an interesting idea, we would also be hard pressed to power shields and weapons. While having ships stranded in a single star system would be interesting storytelling, it would be hard to do it while having the ships remain useful. Plus we have a while asteroid load of naquadah, courtesy of Anubis. Perhaps an enemy could devise a weapon to disable our Earth-built hyperdrives, causing them to explode when we try using them? Something like the Attero Device turned back on us.

And you're welcome to the Pegasus Project idea (Yes, it's Eternal Density (as in 'George McFly'), glad you got it pronounced right eventually.)


On this week's question, in my opinion the block replicators are no different to organic bugs. I don't have any more problem blowing them to bits than squishing bugs. Less, because bugs are messy. I wouldn't call them any more alive than a (biological) virus.
The Milky Way human-form replicators I'd say are alive and sentient. I think they have rights and responsibilities just like the other races in the milky way. For example, I'd be fine with an alliance with Replicators just like we had with the Tok'ra. The Tok'ra were essentially the same species as the evil Goa'uld who we did our utmost to destroy. For this reason, the initial treatment of Fifth does not sit well with me - we betrayed him. As for RepliCarter, she had all the knowledge and understanding of Samantha Carter, but none of the morals. She knew exactly what she was doing and what the consequences were, and we had every right to stop her, which necessitated her destruction.

As for the Asurans, they're fundamentally different to the MW Replicators, as they developed from a weapon, rather than a self-reproducing 'toy'. On one hand, it appears that their base programming forced their choices, removing free will, and with it their responsibility and rights. On the other hand, they had the ability to plead with their creators to remove the base aggression, and were even able to find a way to change their base programming because it ran counter to what they wanted, meaning they did have some measure of free will. Given they were able to override the directive preventing them from killing their creators, they theoretically would have been able to choose to attack the wraith directly, rather than the humans, which means that at the point at which we wiped them out (in BAMSR) were were justified in doing so. But the Lanteans were not justified in leaving the aggression code in the Asurans when they requested to have it removed, and then trying to destroy them because they were a failed experiment. Come to think of it, I'd put the Asurans on the level of Urgo - a mistake which became sentient. The difference is that the Asurans were far more dangerous than Urgo. I think the Lanteans were afraid of them, hence their poor choices.
As for FRAN, I would classify her as sentient, and lacking free will. Rodney created her with a specific purpose, which she was not able to do other than accept. Lacking free will, she did not have the same rights as humans, though at least as much as animals. And she had no more personal responsibility than a guided missile.

In general, I'd call the replicators which look human, sentient, and how we treat them depends on their level of free will and how they wish (or are programmed) to treat us and others. If they are trying to destroy us, we have the right to defend ourselves. If they mean us no harm, we shouldn't betray them (abandoning Fifth was wrong. Spacing Niam was okay because he had been reset and forced to attack us.) If they are pre-programmed tools, we can use them for their purpose, but we don't have the right to mistreat/torture them. If FRAN was programmed as a combat instructor who could take hits without pain, then sparring with her without pulling punches would be acceptable. Using her as a punching bag outside that designed context would not be acceptable. Actually, creating sentient punching bags in general is out - punching bags are meant to be punching bags, not sentient beings.

Wow, that's a lot more than I meant to write!

[edit]To summarise, no for the bugs, otherwise yes, yes, and mostly yes, but having rights doesn't mean we can't destroy them like other enemies such as the Goa'uld, who also have rights.

[Spinobreaker]

You guys are nuts lol
As for replicators, are they alive, are they sentient, and do they have rights...

Well, by definition they are an artificial creation (human/alien made), so they are a machine, BUT every person whos alive was 'made' via procreation between two people, so we are also technically human made, so are we any different? We have a built in computer and we react to a set of protocols, just like they do, so as for alive, id still say no, because life is carbon based (i wont get into technicalities, and no life cannot be based on another element, again to boring to get into)

Sentient.... easy, yes, they are aware of there surroundings, they know that looking in a mirror it is them not something else, so that makes them self aware, and therefor sentient...

Do they have rights.... This is a tricky one, is one is not alive then they have no rights, BUT if one is sentient then one has rights... ill leave this for you to to toss up, flip a coin, its the most scientific way to look at this one lol

Good luck with this discussion

[Psi]

The human form replicators definitely exhibit all the quality's we’d except from something alive so I think the issue of whether or not they're alive is mostly about whether or not a computer can be alive.

So, to answer that question "can a computer be alive" I would have to say a definite "Yes" and i'll explain why...

There's been more than one Stargate episode where a living person or alien has had their mind downloaded into a computer, been in control of it and then been returned to their body.
- Season 4 "Entity" - Sam gets downloaded into a computer
- Season 5 "Revelations" and Season 6 "Descent" - Thor gets downloaded into a computer
- Season 8 “New Order” - Jack has his mind connected to the Asgard ships computer (although this maybe more of a link than him being entirely in the computer and not his body)

So unless we believe Sam, Thor and Jack are no longer alive (after they've been conscious in a computer) we have to accept that in the Stargate world a computer can carry a living sentient entity able to interact with the world in a conscious way.

So yes, i believe replicators have to be classed as alive. Their behavior is definitely sentient in my mind and being alive and sentient they should have rights.

[Mac Jackson]

My answer to the Podcast question:

Are Replicators Alive? Not even a little bit. As much as we have made personal connections to "human robots" throughout Sci-Fi such as Data from StarTrek and C3-PO in Star Wars and would love to have them have souls. They are just advanced robots who "replicate" human emotions. I've always agreed with Jack's view and practical focus when dealing with robots. Ultimately, whomever they claim to be, being a bleeding heart can get you killed. You have to be able to pull the trigger and end the treat. It isn't about our personal connections. It's about the safety of the universe.


By the way, Nice job weaving the comments into the podcast when it comes up in conversation. It flows better that way and helps steer it better.

Thanks as always,

[Pharaoh Atem]

the pop up in the upper corner has the march 3rd podcast still

[Pharaoh Atem]

and for the latest podcast

http://www.gateworld.net/gallery/dis...hp?pos=-126676

the screencap for the Daedalus mention

[SuperG]

Spaceships vs Stargates.

So Stargate is about a device of means of travel wich conflict with Space ship wich fullfill the same need.

True in some way but wrong in another.
Stargate is faster but only infantery missiles or small vehicles or gate ships.
While space ship takes more time wit FTL travel, but you bring with it big guns on the spot. But traveling wasn't fast in the beginning. So the coexist very well.
This give the underdog Earth time to do it's hero special ops thing like lots of gate traveling SG missions.

But with the faster asgard engines you get a bigger conflict. Like a relative fast inter galacy traveling. That's feeds conflic stargate and space ships compete more.

With this conflict they are leaving the underdog status.

Pure spaceships point.
The original movie is about stargate and alien with treatening advance technologie like big space ship wich Kurt russel blew up with his nuke. So Space ship have a role in the original movie.
The start of the series is about the discovering trough stargate of treatining aliens with big hunking spaceships wich use egyption pyramids as landing things. Dito

My conclusion: Spaceships are just like the stargate a core part of it. First feeding the underdog status, used by advance enemy only.

With Earthships is a small break trough in underdog status. using garthered technologie by exploring the gate network worlds.
why is this a problem? it's not. Earth will advance while searching and finding and getting advance tech.

The problem is asgard tech and acient tech in earth forces use.
Espacialy the Asgard tech. Wich somethime set earth in advance status over the enemy.
Wich Asgard tech of high speed FTL.

The Stargate has a big role in the first movie, like your first bike, and your first trip on it.
That time it's all about the bike. 5 years later its just getting froam A to B wich is more important.
Stargate is now very common thing in the franchise. Just like stargate is a way of travel it's getting common way of travel. It doesn't get the scene time as with the original movie. and first seasons. After 1000 kawoshes we get used to it. en demand less attention and pressous air time.


The problem is the to fast FTL ships

Also after years of inter stellar war and exploring intensively for advanced alien tech. Earth will get tech. For it need to defend it. with big space ships etc.

Sure the original you get a feel of it's might be out there weakens a lot.
But hanging to hard on pure stargate only Scifi. Makes it even more unbelievable. Plus make the series development of plots and advancing very restricted.

Space ships isn't something startrek or voyager specific.

Space ships are a very common thing for scifi.
Space ships are a very common thing for stargate.

The original stargate movie is besides about a stargate also a lot about a huge mothership.
The series is about treatening large fleets.

If the series was only about stargate. No space ships. So no goa'uld space ships. You have just burry the gate very deep. Problem solved.

Stargate formula isn't pure about a way of travel. Like the blackhawk in Blackhawk down.
The plot is War with aliens wich leads to a weapon race of caching up from underdog status.

That is my opinion.

It's obvious I like Stargate but most of all Space ship Scifi based mpvies and series.
And stargate original and franchise falls in that subgenre.