The Shrill and Ill-Informed Lemming Thread (spoilers!)

[Pitry]

Heh. While I wouldn't get upset AT ALL about some hair style, I'm sure we can agree that the changes being made on SGA right now are of a much larger scale.

Also, I'd like to remind everyone that this thread is PRO, so no taking down the opinions of lemming supporters, please. We're not unreasonable, we just like to voice our opinion (within the forum rules).

No, I think this discussion is a good thing. Because, as seen by peiople's comment, they don't understand the real reason of the protest over JM's posts - it's not about a decision, it's about the nature of the decisions, and how these decisions are being perceived by fans who don't have all the information.

[flynn1959]

Absolutely. Insulting fandom is biting the hand that feeds him.

Without fandom, there is no audience, without an audience there is no network deal, with no network deal there is no job for him.

Simple as that. People in this fandom spend a lot of money on DVDs, magazines, god knows what else. People travel vast distances to travel to cons. Some have even had dinner with Mallozzi. Guys, this is that he thinks of you.

Well I am too polite to say just what I think of him! This little lemming is going to find another show to watch or read a book or go out. With SG1 gone and no more Atlantis for me I should be able to save quite a bit of money.

[Cailliath]

Woot! Does that count as my first personall attack on a message board!?!

I didn't see that as an attack at all. But you did more or less point out that as an alternative to randomly beating up strangers, we've at least got this board.

I viewed that post as a tongue in cheek response to how daft a comment that was. Perhaps I'm wrong?

[dispader]

I didn't see that as an attack at all. But you did more or less point out that as an alternative to randomly beating up strangers, we've at least got this board.

I viewed that post as a tongue in cheek response to how daft a comment that was. Perhaps I'm wrong?

Not the shooting part. The mention of my inferior post count maybe indicating that I am just here to make trouble or something. That's how I saw it but I could be wrong as well.

[ShoDar]

Heh. While I wouldn't get upset AT ALL about some hair style, I'm sure we can agree that the changes being made on SGA right now are of a much larger scale.

Also, I'd like to remind everyone that this thread is PRO, so no taking down the opinions of lemming supporters, please. We're not unreasonable, we just like to voice our opinion (within the forum rules).

True, but the forum is still over the top insane about it. Right now, the first page of this section has:
- Save Carson campaign thread
- Beckett in Sunday thread
- Save Carson thread
- Save Elizabeth thread
- How to save Carson and Elizabeth thread
- Lemming thread
- Anti S4 thread
- 14 = a few thread complaing about AT
- Save JF and DH (complete hyperbole)
- Save SGA (hyperbole on top of hyperbole)


There is a difference between getting upset in general and taking over the board with negativity. The world has not ended people.



As for your second comment, I find that one of the main reasons why I only come to this forum occasionally is because people keep trying to segregate points of view. Everywhere else I hang out online, a thread is about it's topic. All of it's topic. So there is less of the insanity about 2 negative threads and one positive one on the same topic. I'm ambivalent about the cast changes. Does that mean I can't post anywhere?

[wannatee_1984]

Speculating, sure. Going "Oh no! They've killed the show!" and doing the forum equivalent of running around with your head cut off. That's a bit much for me. Most of the SGA S3 forum is now filled with doom and gloom about how awful the producers and writers are for doing something that we haven't seen yet and how S4 is obviously going to suck when half the people commenting haven't seen half of S3 yet. It could end up being really good creatively. And even if you don't think it will, there is a big difference between saying so and calling writers hacks (which I have seen) for writing something we haven't watched yet.

I'm all for discussing and even complaining. But 1. people are complaining about things that they don't know enough about yet to be so up in arms. If you haven't seen it, you can be apprehensive but you can't be sure enough to be that hardcore against it unless you're psychic. 2. There have been some discussions and complaints that have been rather mean in terms of attacking staff professionally and even personally without cause, so I can understand why Joe M might feel under seige at the moment.

Honestly some of the reactions from certain people around here remind be of an old Trek message group when Voyager was in first run. Somebody didn't like an episode and included in their comments: "And when did they change Kes' hair? I don't recall being given notice about that." to which my favourite reply was something along the lines of: "Oh boo hoo. Did the producers forget to check with the fan princesses before making a minor change? How dare they?" Yes, how dare they try to make changes and move things forward instead of keeping things stagnant.

I can't really talk for others but for me they have killed my show. They have gotten rid of a character that I loved and have downgraded my favourite character to the dredded 'recurring' status (naming ford, etc). Replacing them with Characters that are unneed in the first place and unwanted in others. I have just as right to say that this show is doomed to die from all these changes just as much as a person can say that they just cannot wait for the new season can I not? It's a shame that some are more vocal than others I'll admit, but it can't be really helped if people screaming and yelling are their way to express what they feel.

And for those who have seen "Sunday", they have seen the change of first being told that he was just gonna be having lesser screen time but coming back, but gets killed off. How are you meant to come back when you're dead? Daniel senarios not included. And this 'soft reset' hint from Joe Flanigan in the lastest batch of news of there, may be a source of much concern for people can it not?

I'm fine with change, change is at times a very good thing to rehash and refresh a show. But I'm complaining about what TYPE of changes they gave the green light too. I'm complaining here cause I'm pissed-off at the fact that not only Carson's gone, Elizabeth is at risk as well and two new people are being added instantly next year as well, all roughy at the same time. I'm complaining that Carter's coming in to essentically replace Weir as leader of Atlantis, which would mean it would be all militarized, which I thought they DIDN'T want from the get do. I complaining that instead of fixing up the cast loop holes and lack of chemistry with certain people with more screentime and more quality writing, they decide to curb two people and thrown in two replacements. If it was more spaced out I'll be more understandable and more willing to be fine with the changes, but to dump one bomb after one after another you know? All this change, all so close together, THAT'S a bit too much for me.

In regards to Joe, If this all just amounts to a five-year olds school fight name-calling shout out, then what's the use? We're angry, which makes him angry, which makes us angry even more. If he, or any other PTB thought that they would be no backlash, then they were horribly mistaken.

[marimba26]

And I wouldn't be surrpsied if this is Skiffy's call, at least partially. We know they're the ones who pushed for an SG1 character on SGA. How do we know? Long before TPTB/ AT talking about this and confirmed this, Skiffy's official notice - within days of the cancellation announcement, when MGM/ Bridge were still wondering whether they could get a season 11 or not - they said SG1 characters would cross over to SGA. They didn't say "we hope to/ we'd ask Bridge/ we'l try". They gave it as a fact. This could very well have been Skiffy pressuring TPTB to this - which caused them a budget hole so big they just had to let go one of their own SGA characters, and the dart fell on Weir.
Fine, reasonable to me.
They shoudl still say something. They managed very well to tip off the media anonymously when they had a problem with Skiffy's handling of SG1. They cry out fans' ill informed accusations - perhaps because it really sin't their fault and they did their best to keep Torri in SGA? - great. Let us know, or don't come complaining.

Well, if this is Skiffy's call (which wouldn't be unheard of), it might have gotten around I think. Rumor had it when Ben came around that he got hired at Skiffy's insistence. Any rumors of that around now? My sources are saying no. This came out of the blue to most people who are in the know. My guess is this could be some sort of publicity stunt on the lines of (spoilers for Battlestar Galactica)

Spoiler:

Kara's Thrace's impending demise

to improve ratings because that's what it's all about these days it seems. Nevermind the fact that improving the quality of writing might be a better way to do that...

Personally, I think this was a long time in coming. They've reduced her quite a bit already because let's face it, they don't write her very well (see Astro's LJ for further reference on this). Gero can write her and Binder can write her but it's hit and miss for everyone else (mostly miss). Funny how it's the new writers that do the best job...hmmm.

TRW was incredible of course, so they know she can act. So it's not Torri's lack of ability. It's their lack of interest in any woman that has a brain. Who cares if you have a large female viewership, right? They doesn't want that. They want the teenage boy viewership because those are the *only* people that spend money, right? Women most certainly don't spend money...(my hubs could only *wish* that were the case).

As for me, I'm going to take my lemming money and spend it elsewhere.

[Cailliath]

Not the shooting part. The mention of my inferior post count maybe indicating that I am just here to make trouble or something. That's how I saw it but I could be wrong as well.

Ah right. Either way I hope it wasn't. There's no point in attacking each other. Besides you didn't exactly get started off on the right foot anyway.

[Pegasus_SGA]

Before I start, I am on topic I just have a strange way of showing it

From what I read... the film that depicts lemmings jumping to their deaths in a frenzy was actually depicted by Disney in the 50's for a wildlife programme and the lemmings didn't jump off the cliff on a mass suicide, they were thrown off by the film makers.... hmmmm strange similarities...go figure!

[leelakin]

There is a difference between getting upset in general and taking over the board with negativity. The world has not ended people.

See, THIS exactly I see as a sign that there's something fundamentally wrong right now.
It's a good thing that the fans care about their favourite show. If they see something they don't like (or get to know about -confirmed- spoilers), in fact the majority of them, they'll say so.
I see this as a last plea to TPTB to actually LISTEN and give us a reason to CONTINUE watching the show, because we actually do care.

Heck we do not want to boycott it or anything. I think a whole lot of people on here would be VERY happy if all the changes could just be undone, leave it at that and continue being fans (and no, it's not what I call stagnant... there are other ways of keeping a show fresh apart from changing half the cast).

So, if they react to our protest and TELL us or SHOW us why we should continue watching... great, that way everyone can decide for themselves whether they want their favourite show like that and continue watching.

If they don't react AT ALL (or in the way Mr.Mallozzi has), then fans begin to turn away (in a way that they REALLY don't give a d@mn anymore) or get more desperate with their questions and projects.

[marimba26]

True, but the forum is still over the top insane about it. Right now, the first page of this section has:
- Save Carson campaign thread
- Beckett in Sunday thread
- Save Carson thread
- Save Elizabeth thread
- How to save Carson and Elizabeth thread
- Lemming thread
- Anti S4 thread
- 14 = a few thread complaing about AT
- Save JF and DH (complete hyperbole)
- Save SGA (hyperbole on top of hyperbole)


There is a difference between getting upset in general and taking over the board with negativity. The world has not ended people.



As for your second comment, I find that one of the main reasons why I only come to this forum occasionally is because people keep trying to segregate points of view. Everywhere else I hang out online, a thread is about it's topic. All of it's topic. So there is less of the insanity about 2 negative threads and one positive one on the same topic. I'm ambivalent about the cast changes. Does that mean I can't post anywhere?

Might I interject here?

Who is making you read these dreaded threads? Is there some requirement I didn't know about that you must read certain threads to be a member of GW? Wow, I've been around for what seems like *forever* and that's a new one for me...

Was there some requirement that you participate in fandom at all? Did I miss a meeting? Because wow, that's new too.

If you don't care for negativity, then by all means, don't read it. But don't expect the rest of us to stand around and blow sunshine when that's not how we feel. If you don't like the way we feel, you are well within your rights to disagree--on a thread whose topic is an open discussion. This is NOT an open discussion and therefore you are OFF topic if you have a differing opinion. If you don't like that, please feel free to refer to GW rules as often as possible to refresh yourself. Have a nice day.

[GateLadyM]

JM has always been mean to fans, but I see he is getting even nastier in his old age. After looking at his blog, its obvious the man ingests too many carbs.

Sign me up to be a lemming.

[amikara]

Way to go, newly appointed showrunner and executive producer of SGA. Throwing insults at the fans because they dare to protest against a -in the fans eyes - stupid decision concerning cast changes. Yes, I am a lemming, and proud of it. If it's the means to make you listen, then yes, I'll throw myself off that cliff.

"There’s something strangely comforting and delusively empowering about chiming in with an anonymous mob, albeit one that lacks any true insight into the reality of a situation."

Albeit the fact that this is a hell of a hugh insult I've heard coming from a producer towards the shows fans, how about this?

Enlighten us, oh mighty Powers that Be, so that the delusional anonymous mob can shut up and go on stuffing money into your funny little franchise?

Yep, you can sign me up as a lemming.

[Hyperspace]

Personally, I think this was a long time in coming. They've reduced her quite a bit already because let's face it, they don't write her very well (see Astro's LJ for further reference on this). Gero can write her and Binder can write her but it's hit and miss for everyone else (mostly miss). Funny how it's the new writers that do the best job...hmmm.

TRW was incredible of course, so they know she can act. So it's not Torri's lack of ability. It's their lack of interest in any woman that has a brain. Who cares if you have a large female viewership, right? They doesn't want that. They want the teenage boy viewership because those are the *only* people that spend money, right? Women most certainly don't spend money...(my hubs could only *wish* that were the case).

As for me, I'm going to take my lemming money and spend it elsewhere.

Potentially the same here. It's a shame they can't get a woman in charge right! And I thought the lowest-common-denominator Voyager mentality (Seven of Nine) didn't apply to the more egalitarian SG people.

And to the poster who said "stop complaining when you haven't even seen it yet" -- we are basing this on the specific spoiler that Gateworld posted (Dr. Weir recurring). By the time it airs it is TOO LATE to say anything, it's done.

[Cailliath]

True, but the forum is still over the top insane about it. Right now, the first page of this section has:
- Save Carson campaign thread
- Beckett in Sunday thread
- Save Carson thread
- Save Elizabeth thread
- How to save Carson and Elizabeth thread
- Lemming thread
- Anti S4 thread
- 14 = a few thread complaing about AT
- Save JF and DH (complete hyperbole)
- Save SGA (hyperbole on top of hyperbole)

Fair enough. The save Carson/Elizabeth threads could possibly be merged in 2 separate Carson and Elizabeth threads. And agreed on the last 1 in bold also. But the rest are perfectly valid.

As for this thread, people aren't entirely impressed with JM's comments and rightly so. If you're happy with them, fine. But we've a right not to be just as you've a right to whatever you think.