The Fist bump

[Pandora's_Box]

I would green you, PG, but I'm all greened out for you.

So let's just say I did.

[Pandora's_Box]

Well, we can blame the writers for that, can't we?

I thought it was a very ... dare I say sexist script (from reading the transcript first), and especially Sheppard was written as sexist. Not the characters I knew.

But....I didn't.....it wasn't....

:: sigh ::

I didn't see them as sexist, Reiko. Sorry. But I am interested to hear how you perceived their other actions to be sexist.

[nx01a]

Respect is earned.

For me, a basic level of respect is something another person has to lose.

[PG15]

Instead of respecting strangers, I usually just tolerate them. That's like "neutral" for me. If they get on my good side, I respect them; if they get on my bad side, I get passive aggressive at them.

I would green you, PG, but I'm all greened out for you.

So let's just say I did.

Yes, let's.

[Infinite-Possibilities]

I simply looked at it as a little joke. Both Sheppard and Beckett have been known to make those. It's not supposed to be a serious thing. And that is kind of a hallmark of this entire franchise, isn't it?

[FallenAngelII]

It's a valid question. What right do you have to condemn people for actions they take and things they say in private?

What they do harms you in no way at all, or anyone else for that matter. So as long as it remains in the private sector and you see neither heads nor tails of it, what does it concern you?

Or me? Or some random Joe on the street?

It's my opinion. I have a right to state my opinion. In my opinion, what they do is bad. What right do you have to say that I have no right to state my opinion on what I believe is unacceptable behavior?

What they were doing was private between them...

People can recycle this blatant lie how many times they want, it was not private. They were in public and sight of the others. One single person of the all-female team turning around would've meant they would've been caught. It was overt, it was out in the open it was not in private.

Just because everyone's got their backs turned does not mean it's a private moment unless by private, you mean a moment shared between two people instead of a moment shared in a private setting.

[DrJenniferDex]

Yes, and we have the right to disagree with you without being told our opinions are all lies, which you don't seem to understand.

[Pandora's_Box]

Just because everyone's got their backs turned does not mean it's a private moment unless by private, you mean a moment shared between two people instead of a moment shared in a private setting.

Private: confined to particular persons or groups

Is it fun? Living with one eye cast behind you at all times? Making sure that actions you take in private with friends aren't overheard by others, misinterpreted, and taken with offense.

Honestly, that would kill me.

The women had moved on, the fist bump took exactly 2 seconds (if that), and it was over. The chances of them looking back and seeing were practically nil. Ergo, it was a private moment between friends. No harm done.

[PG15]

Just because everyone's got their backs turned does not mean it's a private moment unless by private, you mean a moment shared between two people instead of a moment shared in a private setting.

Ahhh...now I see the confusion. It's the former. You're right, it wasn't a private setting; there were 4 people right beside them...but it is a private moment shared between two people, as you say, with no one in particular looking at them at that time.

It's about as overt as, say, zipping up my accidentally-left-open fly discretely when the people around you aren't looking. It really isn't overt at all.

[Repli!kat]

I'm a woman.
I thought the female team would be bad cliche'd sexist Barbies in BDU's.
But I liked them!
And I thought the fist bump was funny and even kinda cute.
I know I wouldn't mind if those two fine men were that appreciative of my company.
My female friends and I certainly do our share of admiring the boys at work but don't come out and throw it in their faces. So no harm done. Im sure they do the same re the ladies.
Mutual admiration/mutual respect/healthy adult attraction - what is wrong with that?
my opinion only....

[Linzi]

It's my opinion. I have a right to state my opinion. In my opinion, what they do is bad. What right do you have to say that I have no right to state my opinion on what I believe is unacceptable behavior?

Of course you have the right to express your opinion. However, you belittle other's opinions and dismiss their opposing views without ever accepting other's may have opinions too. If you're allowed an opinion, so are others as well. You seem to constantly state your opinions as facts, when it's just the way you perceive things - your opinion. If you clearly stated what you post is your opinion and accepted that others have different opinions, maybe some people wouldn't be so put off by your attitude when you post?

People can recycle this blatant lie how many times they want, it was not private. They were in public and sight of the others. One single person of the all-female team turning around would've meant they would've been caught. It was overt, it was out in the open it was not in private.

Just because everyone's got their backs turned does not mean it's a private moment unless by private, you mean a moment shared between two people instead of a moment shared in a private setting.

Here we go again. The above post is an example of what I was trying to explain above. 'Blatant lie'? You might think it's a lie, but accusing others of lying isn't nice, is it? Or true for that matter.

You call private two people being alone, others call it a moment which is meant to be shared between two people not intended for others to see or hear.

The team didn't look back at Sheppard and Beckett, therefore their discreet fist bump was in private and meant for their eyes only, otherwise they'd have done it sooner when the team weren't walking away, surely? And if two people share a moment together which isn't intended for others to see, then, yes, it's private. If I whisper something in my friend's ear while others are in the same room, our words are private, even if someone sees we're doing it.

Yes, and we have the right to disagree with you without being told our opinions are all lies, which you don't seem to understand.

Agreed.

Ahhh...now I see the confusion. It's the former. You're right, it wasn't a private setting; there were 4 people right beside them...but it is a private moment shared between two people, as you say, with no one in particular looking at them at that time.

It's about as overt as, say, zipping up my accidentally-left-open fly discretely when the people around you aren't looking. It really isn't overt at all.

PG! Why did you have to mention your flies?


I really just don't see why there's all the fuss is about such a little thing. It was such a tiny part of the episode and so insignificant. It was meant to be light-hearted and fun. That's all. Now, not everyone might like that, sure. But I can't help but think, reading all these pages, that the fist bump has been blown up out of all proportion. I just don't understand why it's so important

[TameFarrar]

I thought Teldy made it perfectly clear she found it laughable John would find it strange to have an all-female team. Then she did a little chest pounding of her own. This is kinda indicative of that she doesn't think women should be viewed as sex objects instead of equals.

I didn't get that from that scene but ok

I said this when? I'm saying that the logic "If nobody sees it, it's alright" doesn't fly. The person I was responding to made it sound like no matter how sexist, as long as no one's around to get offended by it, it's OK and not at all sexist.

You were responding to ME and I was disagreeing with you and explaining why I disagreed with you and then you came back with this argument which I in turn responded to.....Something can only be labeled *sexist* if someone is there to label it.

As I pointed out in my last post, the way Sexual Harassment is defined BY LAW. The offender must first be advised they are being offensive and warned to stop. If they continue the behavior it then becomes sexual harassment.

I will again re-iterate that this ONLY applies to verbal communication and not to any physical contact.

I suggest you re-read my posts. I never claimed to be the PC police and to want to police what people do in private. I'm merely pointing out that just because no one's around to get offended by a comment/gesture/whatever doesn't mean it cannot be sexist.

Sexist behavior is sexist no matter where or when it occurs. You can argue that the behavior might not actually be sexist, but to argue that as long as no one is around to get offended by it, then it's a-OK and not sexist at all.

It is MY opinion that you are advocating dictating every person's actions and thoughts and conversation in public or private. I never stated YOU were anything.
The above bolded statement is not actually reading very clearly to me BUT I think you have stated often enough that as far as you are concerned No matter where the behavior occurs and no matter if it is private or not you believe it to be sexist and therefore unacceptable and it should not be allowed. I can go back repost your posts on that if you are unsure or I am reading you incorrectly.

That implies to me that you are advocating that *someone* have the right to dictate people's thoughts and conversations. I believe that to be wrong.

So we are in disagreement.

Funny, I thought I was merely stating my opinion and point of view. People are free to not share it. Last time I checked, I was not emperor of the Earth.

You are confusing to me here as I don't believe I or anyone has stated that you are not allowed to state your opinion. In fact it has been your opinions that I have been responding to and basically just disagreeing with. But never have I said you are not allowed to have them. So I am confused by this remark.

The writers didn't do anything, the actors ad libbed. Also, the girls were, what, 20-30 feet away? If one of them had turned back, they would've seen it.

It's not private just because someone's got their back turned to you!

However the FACT IS they didn't I wasn't aware that the actors ad-libbed that to the point that it snuck by the editor
so in FACT it was private regardless of what could have happened what DID happen was what was shown. I can see making an argument if this was real life and the people involved had a real problem, but this is a TV show and respect for women really is not an issue most of the time.

Neither is sexual harassment. But apparently, if no one sees it, then it's not illegal? I'm using your own logic against you. As long as no one's there to see it, it's not sexist. That was what your previous post conveyed. Now you might not have meant to convey that or I might was misread your post, but what I got from it was that if no one's around to get offended, no matter how sexist something is, it's not really sexist as long as it's in private.

You may be using my logic but you are applying it to a faulty situation since even in my last post I was pretty clear about the laws of Sexual harassment. We were originally discussing a conversation or moment between Guys that is considered private and not observed by anyone and would be considered private. So again I will stick with my opinion that unless you are of the opinion that somehow we are supposed to begin regulating people's thoughts and private conversations there is no way you can label something you are not even aware of.

While I understand your point, I do not agree with you. I also understand that you do not agree with my point.

However while I get your point that it was sexist no matter what. I don't believe you really get mine that it can only be sexist if one of the people involved actually believe it to be. So we will have to agree at least to disagree.

Like John and Carson only 20 feet away from the people they're fist bumping over with the chance of one of them turning back any minute? Yes, very private.

It was according to show canon it was private regardless of what you, I or anyone think COULD have happened

Yes, because I think that's frat boy 20-something behavior. You can disagree, it's a free planet.
Just because you don't agree with me doesn't mean it's not bad or immature. How do you know that it's not bad or immature? Because you think it isn't? I smell hypocrisy here.

Then you would be smelling yourself, because never once have I stated that you couldn't have your own opinion OR that mine was more correct then yours. I have been defending mine as you have been defending yours. I have stated time and time again that I understood you felt differently.

I'm not allowed to call it bad and/or immature because people might disagree, but you're allowed to say that it's not bad or immature because, well, you say so? We disagree, fine. Last time I checked, I wasn't a dictionary.
When I call something immature, it's not final, it's not representative of what the entire world thinks.

no one has said this, I know I haven't but I am allowed to state why I feel your opinion is incorrect in relation to my opinion it is called debating the issue. however, you are the only one here stating that your opinion is the *right* one and all others false. Again I have been defending my opinion based on your responses.

Yes, tell that to the impressionable teens watching John repeatedly flirt with space tail and doing what can be perceived as frat boy-esque sexist behavior. Tell that to the kids at home watching going "Hey, it's OK to do this. Yeah!".
I'm sorry, I can not identify with it as long as I shut up and don't voice my opinion on it? I mean, this is all I'm doing. I'm stating that I think it was wrong and unnecessary. You apparently think it wasn't wrong and unnecessary.
As least I've never told you that you have no right to think the way you do or state your opinion.

I am not going to argue with you over whether or not kids act out TV because that is not what this stated out to be. Also it would have to encompass shooting, killing and a myriad of other things that have no place in what I thought was a simple topic.

AGAIN you have not been told even once by me that you could not voice your opinion and in fact AGAIN I have only been defending my opinion in responses to your responses. So I am unsure why you are twisting this into me somehow now squelching you being able to state things. I can state how I feel about you opinions just as you have stated how you feel about mine. Its called discussing our opinions. Its also a given we don't agree and no where did I state I was the *right* one. To ME my opinions are right and to you your opinions are right.

But please do not twist my responses into something they are not. I have no issue with being disagreed with. I do have issue with being misrepresented however.

[rarocks24]

When I look at attractive people, I steal quick glances. Then again, I don't really care so much that I'd continuously steal glances. If I want to stare at hot men, I have porn for that.

LOL...

You're commenting on men fist bumping each other when no one's looking and how that's wrong, and you have the balls to say that you look at porn?

Seriously, just stop. You have no right to say anything about that.

Now if you were a total prude who thinks anything related to sex is wrong, I may give you some leeway.

But porn.

[PG15]

Lol yeah, I just realized that. If a fist bump objectifies women, then porn most definitely objectifies them.

Or men, in your case.

[Osiris-RA]

I can't help but think, reading all these pages, that the fist bump has been blown up out of all proportion. I just don't understand why it's so important

*shares your confusion*

What's really odd though is that fist bumps have been turned into some kind of fad. Haven't they been around for decades? 60ies and 70ies...? Ancient times?