Whispers & Stargate Fandom / Unusual Reception

[Ancavge]

lol, I was asking what you were giving a "thumb down"...?

yeah i knew what u meant

[Klinjon]

Eh? You used a scratching head confused smiley so I thought you didn't know what I meant...

... So, what were you giving a "thumb down?!"

[Ancavge]

Eh? You used a scratching head confused smiley so I thought you didn't know what I meant...

... So, what were you giving a "thumb down?!"

lol whispers AHHHH!!!!

[Klinjon]

Ah i see, well atriculated

Right so back on topic then!

[Lt. Ford]

Yeah, I've never really gotten all that involved with the boards, because there are an extreme amount of negative people. I really enjoyed Whispers. In fact, after I had finished watching it with my brother, I said to him: "That was a good episode. I liked it." I don't know who's saying that it doesn't "contribute to the overall story arc", because it is dealing with Michael's hybrids. Correct me if I'm wrong, but hasn't Michael and his hybrids been a rather large threat recently...? Maybe we weren't watching the same show?

Either way, I like episodes that can be considered standalone. I don't care if the episode doesn't advance the overall story line by bounds. I sit down to be entertained. No one is ever happy it seems. Unless an episode fits their ideas of perfection, the entire thing is crap. All I've read from people is all the negative on this episode. No one mentions the postive, like you've brought up. The acting, story, writing, scripts etc were all really good, in my opinion. Like I said though, if any episode has a few aspects people don't like, the entire thing is "awful, boring, waste of an hour" etc. It's things like this that make it clear why the writers don't want to make Atlantis anymore. All they ever get is criticism for their hard work.

There may be a few episodes that people really like, and they get praise. Then there are the majority of episodes that are pretty good, but if they are too different, or don't contribute to enough story, they suck and only get knitpicked.

Well I'm done. Thanks for listening.

[jonno]

Simply put - welcome to the world of online fandom - it's always been like that and always will.

In terms of season arc vs no arc ... I think this has stemmed from recent shows like 24, Lost, BSG, where nearly all the episodes contribute to the overreaching story. Stargate however started out more in the startrek (TNG/S1-3 DS9 etc) mould of a season of episodes not necessarily connected. In recent times, in the stargate universe there have been more overall storylines, however there are still far more fairly unconected in terms of overall progression in the Stargate universe than in the Lost/BSG universes.

Some people like that, others will see the Stargate method as being old fashioned and out of date. Others have just become disallusioned and moan about everything and anything (as is their right). You will never have an episode that everyone will like, tis just the world of the fan.

[Jeff O'Connor]

Personally, I love the show, and there were more saving graces in 'Whispers' than my initial reaction would indicate, no doubt. In fact, I have absolutely nothing whatsoever against any episodes that don't fully propel the plot in leaps and bounds or anything like that. I thought 'The Daedalus Variations', for example, was fantastic -- as did plenty of other fans.

I just happen to be of the opinion that, in relative terms, 'The Seed' and 'Whispers' really aren't all that great. There are just some really dreadful moments in both, IMO.

[Klinjon]

You see Jeff O'Conner, that is an excellent example of a well balanced argument, and very much what I'm trying to get at here. I defy anyone to try and put that post under the category of "Compliments and Praise" or "Complaints and Misgivings", because it isn't a polar opinion. It's posts like yours that make such threads seem even more irrelevant and outdated. Why? Because it presented a balanced argument. Something I wish was more the norm around these parts. Regardless of whether you liked the episode in question or not, you managed to convey your opinion without resorting to such phrases as "didn't contribute anything", "waste of my time", or "TPTB have really let us down".

I'm afraid though Jonno, that this issue covers more than just "not everyone likes certain episodes" or "fans becoming disillusioned with the methods of storytelling compared with other science fiction shows (like BSG and Lost)". I overuse this phrase, but the blanket negativity people are throwing over most newly produced Stargate is unfathomable, in the sense that there doesn't seem to be anything left that some people like about it anymore. It further baffles me that despite this, they continue to watch the show only to spend their entire time on these forums posting in a dedicated "Complaints and Misgivings" thread, ignoring the fact that the show has already been cancelled and won't be bringing "frustration" and "disappointment" to their television viewing for much longer.

You see Jonno, that isn't the nature of fandom ... we're talking about people who refuse to accept any changes to the way the show is produced, the characters onscreen, the way scripts are written, or the way the series is marketed, because they believe that by drowning this forum in negative comments they can affect change in a show that is already going off the air?!

"Either way, I like episodes that can be considered standalone. I don't care if the episode doesn't advance the overall story line by bounds. I sit down to be entertained. No one is ever happy it seems. Unless an episode fits their ideas of perfection, the entire thing is crap. All I've read from people is all the negative on this episode. No one mentions the positive, like you've brought up. The acting, story, writing, scripts etc were all really good, in my opinion. Like I said though, if any episode has a few aspects people don't like, the entire thing is "awful, boring, waste of an hour" etc. It's things like this that make it clear why the writers don't want to make Atlantis anymore. All they ever get is criticism for their hard work.

There may be a few episodes that people really like, and they get praise. Then there are the majority of episodes that are pretty good, but if they are too different, or don't contribute to enough story, they suck and only get knitpicked." - Lt. Ford.

Best two paragraphs I've ever read on these forums. Again, it's not the fact that "not everyone likes every episode" that I disagree with. Of course no-one likes every episode of a show, regardless of how much they like the program overall. And I enjoy reading constructive praise/criticism when presented within the confines of a balanced argument. That is the nature of fandom. That is why, much like you Lt. Ford (I read that sentence out loud and it sounds like I'm addressing the character, lol) I don't get that involved with the boards.

What I disagree with, is the unrelenting negativity, and also by comparison, the need to heep praise on a show that does have its flaws, with the desire to achieve no more than to present one side of an argument and disregard that of the polar opposite by separating those opinions into different, specifically titled threads?!

[jenks]

yeah adventures but where were the rest of the team??

Why does it matter?

[amconway]

I have no problem with 'stand alone' episodes. I also don't have a problem with the occasional episode with only part of the team - that was done in SG-1 to good effect. I do have some problems with 'Whispers'.

This episode would have been better if it hadn't been directed with such a heavy hand. The plot and character development was pushed along with a 2 by four. No subtlety at all.

The Major was a terrific character. I'd like to see a lot more of her. One wonders why she has so much trouble following the orders of her commanding officer, however. Surely she has encountered Chain of Command disagreements before. I had no trouble believing that she was an excellent officer, though. My biggest fear for 'Universe' is that it will be populated by characters like the Sergeant and Vega, rather than characters like the Major.

The Sergeant... Sigh... I found her completely unbelievable as an experienced, competent soldier. The character (in my opinion) was cliched and poorly written. This was made worse by acting that was as heavy handed as the direction. And why is she the only one wearing really shiny lip gloss? Sigh.

I liked the character of Porter. Didn't like the Porter/Beckett thing. Again, heavy handed. Very heavy handed... I like the actress, but she was not helped by some ridiculous writting choices in terms of her character's actions. Why did she leave the building? At that time there was no reason to do so. It is never explained. Why is she suddenly too wimpy to go back into what is presumed to be an empty lab? To split the team up, that's why. These things are given no valid reason.

Didn't care for Vega at all. Not a lot of character there. Blank and pretty was about it. At least she seemed competent.

For that matter, how did the undiscovered Pods open? It took a villager to open the others. We are given no indication that the creatures have the level of reasoning necessary to open the pods.

All in all, a good episode with a fine concept, but marred with loose writing, heavy handed directing, and bad casting on the part of Vega and the Sergeant.

[ykickamoocow]

yeah adventures but where were the rest of the team??

I would imagine that Rachel Luttrell was filming "The Queen" and David Hewlett, Jason Momoa and Jewel Staite were filming "Tracker".

[Klinjon]

Why does it matter?

A very good question...

I would imagine that Rachel Luttrell was filming "The Queen" and David Hewlett, Jason Momoa and Jewel Staite were filming "Tracker".

A very good answer...

I have no problem with 'stand alone' episodes. I also don't have a problem with the occasional episode with only part of the team - that was done in SG-1 to good effect. I do have some problems with 'Whispers'.

This episode would have been better if it hadn't been directed with such a heavy hand. The plot and character development was pushed along with a 2 by four. No subtlety at all.

The Major was a terrific character. I'd like to see a lot more of her. One wonders why she has so much trouble following the orders of her commanding officer, however. Surely she has encountered Chain of Command disagreements before. I had no trouble believing that she was an excellent officer, though. My biggest fear for 'Universe' is that it will be populated by characters like the Sergeant and Vega, rather than characters like the Major.

The Sergeant... Sigh... I found her completely unbelievable as an experienced, competent soldier. The character (in my opinion) was cliched and poorly written. This was made worse by acting that was as heavy handed as the direction. And why is she the only one wearing really shiny lip gloss? Sigh.

I liked the character of Porter. Didn't like the Porter/Beckett thing. Again, heavy handed. Very heavy handed... I like the actress, but she was not helped by some ridiculous writting choices in terms of her character's actions. Why did she leave the building? At that time there was no reason to do so. It is never explained. Why is she suddenly too wimpy to go back into what is presumed to be an empty lab? To split the team up, that's why. These things are given no valid reason.

Didn't care for Vega at all. Not a lot of character there. Blank and pretty was about it. At least she seemed competent.

For that matter, how did the undiscovered Pods open? It took a villager to open the others. We are given no indication that the creatures have the level of reasoning necessary to open the pods.

All in all, a good episode with a fine concept, but marred with loose writing, heavy handed directing, and bad casting on the part of Vega and the Sergeant.

It seems I'm not quite as alone in my views as I once thought, given the amount of time I've been reading these boards [before choosing to sign up]. Great review of Whispers. It is something of a relief to find members of these forums who have posted in this thread that approach the commenting, analysis, and review of Atlantis episodes with the same mindset as myself.

On a purely "Whispers" related note, I didn't find the direction "heavy handed" as you put it, given the obvious stylistic choices being made here. I think if any cliches were present in the way it was shot or edited then they can be chalked up to cliches of the horror genre in general. As an episode of Atlantis I thought the direction was unusual, but a nice departure. And since Stargate has proven time and again that it isn't above referencing genres or even popular culture, within the framework of an episodes production or on screen content, I think it worked.

However, I do completely agree with your comments about Porter, and some of the decisions made in handling her part of the story. Why did she leave the building when she was by herself and clearly scared to death?! You're right when you say "probably to split up the team". Still, Nicole De Boer suited the roll perfectly, even if the characters behaviour was inconsistent.

[amconway]

On a purely "Whispers" related note, I didn't find the direction "heavy handed" as you put it, given the obvious stylistic choices being made here. I think if any cliches were present in the way it was shot or edited then they can be chalked up to cliches of the horror genre in general. As an episode of Atlantis I thought the direction was unusual, but a nice departure. And since Stargate has proven time and again that it isn't above referencing genres or even popular culture, within the framework of an episodes production or on screen content, I think it worked.

However, I do completely agree with your comments about Porter, and some of the decisions made in handling her part of the story. Why did she leave the building when she was by herself and clearly scared to death?! You're right when you say "probably to split up the team". Still, Nicole De Boer suited the roll perfectly, even if the characters behaviour was inconsistent.

I think that you are correct in your comment that the genre needs to be taken into account. I wasn't really thinking about that. Good point. Still, I think they could have dialed it back just a tad and still hit the 'horror' style. That is very subjective, though, and I can easily see others feeling differently.

If an actress less skilled and charming than De Boer had been in that role, I suspect the character would have come off in the same unreal way as the Sergeant...

What I disagree with, is the unrelenting negativity, and also by comparison, the need to heep praise on a show that does have its flaws, with the desire to achieve no more than to present one side of an argument and disregard that of the polar opposite by separating those opinions into different, specifically titled threads?!

Agreed. I've been taking a break from the forum in the last couple of weeks because I was finding the general tone so unpleasant. I have also found that adding four or five people to my ignore list has improved things. It's difficult to have reasoned debated when there are people who just want to create animosity chiming in.

[Jedi_Master_Bra'tac]

I don't have a problem with standalones. I love SGA. I didn't hate Whispers because it "didn't contribute to the overall ark" or because I'm "morning the loss of SG's prime". I hated it because of reasons I've posted in other threads.

[Col.Foley]

ok first, my normal language is dutch and my enlgish is bad so dont shoot me for it.
As you see i also don't post much but i read a lot.
I also find out that almost everyone here says: bad ep, bad this, bad that, boring, nothing to do with the big atlantis story,.. can't you all just talk about the positive things maybe?
Lots of people liked the first seasons of sg1 more because it was more adventure and less technobabble but now that they do it in sga it is suddenly a bad ep... i don't get that.
For me it was a good ep, it didnt add much to the 'big atlantis story', but it was well written and everything was done nice.

beire

Answer: A large part of fandom will want one thing, and the next part of fandom will want something completly different. It took me a while to get used to it, but I did.