'Remnants' (515) General Discussion

[Skydiver]

"oh god...lorne warned me about this"

- brilliant!!

that was a great line.

[Showfan]

you mean if we got 20 more eps we MIGHT get something more than the shep and rodney hour x 20?

Um, what???? Shep and Rodney hour? Seriously have we been watching the same season?

I'm sorry? The shep and rodney hour? THIS season. I wish. Let's break it down:

<snipped>

No, I would NOT call this season the Sheppard-McKay Hour, more like the "Split Everyone Into Small Groups, Give Keller The Most Prominent Storylines, McKay Gets Either Part Of Her "A" Story Or Put In Charge Of The "B" Story, While Sheppard Shares Any Of His "A" Stories With Two Or Three Others Or Else Gets A "B" Story, Ronon And Teyla Play Backup To Everyone Once They Have Had 'Their' Episode, Forget Having All The Team (Sheppard, McKay, Ronon, Teyla) Together Hour"....But I suppose that is too long a title?

Yeah, what you said.

[Skydiver]

different perceptions, different reactions.

What i see is a focus on shep and rod that - if you enjoy the characters and the cliches they play - is enjoyable for some. but if you want something more than 'self-sacrificing hewo risking his life and gettin the girl with his hyper and highly strung sidekick' then you're just gonna be disappointed more often than not.

I liked Prodigal. I liked how everyone had a part to play and got a moment. I liked the emotion and drama. I didn't get that feeling with Remnants. shep gets whumped, rodney rants, hyperventilates and saves the day, woolsey gets a bit part....and everyone else took the week off.

there was no emotion for me, no 'ooh, what's gonna happen???' in this episode. It was just a muddled mess, obviously - for me anyway - a dream/fantasy/nightmare and the only question was how soon the reveal would happen. It was obvious that it was the device....rod/zelenka wouldn't have been working with it unless it played a part in the plot.

It's been very reminiscent to me of the last season of SG-1, where those that loved the daniel/vala angle had the motherlode while those that liked any other aspect of the show just had dregs and crumbs.

Shep and Rod is the writers safety zone, and it's what they focus on. And sincce they are the leads, you can see the rationale for some of it....but in narrowing the focus so much....they'er kinda like a restaurant that goes from a 20 item menu to a 2 item menu....and then wonder how come their customer base falls off. The narrower the focus, the narrower the appeal.

I have a low tolerance for cliched male action hewo and his buddy, so i have a low tolerance for a lot of what they've done in the recent season. And this episode was just a prime example of what i'm not so fond of....just as Prodigal was an example of what the show used to be like.

[Integrabyte]

I have a low tolerance for cliched male action hewo and his buddy, so i have a low tolerance for a lot of what they've done in the recent season. And this episode was just a prime example of what i'm not so fond of....just as Prodigal was an example of what the show used to be like.

If there is a reason why the show needs to be burried and forgotten is that episode PRODIGAL.

[Showfan]

different perceptions, different reactions.

What i see is a focus on shep and rod that - if you enjoy the characters and the cliches they play - is enjoyable for some. but if you want something more than 'self-sacrificing hewo risking his life and gettin the girl with his hyper and highly strung sidekick' then you're just gonna be disappointed more often than not.

I liked Prodigal. I liked how everyone had a part to play and got a moment. I liked the emotion and drama. I didn't get that feeling with Remnants. shep gets whumped, rodney rants, hyperventilates and saves the day, woolsey gets a bit part....and everyone else took the week off.

there was no emotion for me, no 'ooh, what's gonna happen???' in this episode. It was just a muddled mess, obviously - for me anyway - a dream/fantasy/nightmare and the only question was how soon the reveal would happen. It was obvious that it was the device....rod/zelenka wouldn't have been working with it unless it played a part in the plot.

It's been very reminiscent to me of the last season of SG-1, where those that loved the daniel/vala angle had the motherlode while those that liked any other aspect of the show just had dregs and crumbs.

Shep and Rod is the writers safety zone, and it's what they focus on. And sincce they are the leads, you can see the rationale for some of it....but in narrowing the focus so much....they'er kinda like a restaurant that goes from a 20 item menu to a 2 item menu....and then wonder how come their customer base falls off. The narrower the focus, the narrower the appeal.

I have a low tolerance for cliched male action hewo and his buddy, so i have a low tolerance for a lot of what they've done in the recent season. And this episode was just a prime example of what i'm not so fond of....just as Prodigal was an example of what the show used to be like.

I guess I just don't see Sheppard and McKay as the "cliched male action hero and his buddy" although that's fine that some people do. Shep and McKay have had enough depth thrown in over the years, enough oddness, enough humor and pain to keep them at least a little unique. Besides if Shep and McKay are cliches then I'm sure anyone can make the case that so, in their own way, are all the characters on Stargate and Atlantis combined. And if I was dead set against that I wouldn't watch either show! But to each his own! With the exception of Keller I enjoy all the characters on Atlantis just as I enjoyed them on Stargate.

Personally I wasn't fond of Remnants because the Sheppard part seemed almost thrown in as an afterthought, and thus the episode seemed more than a bit disjointed to me. Poor Shep's had no character development this season, no significant episodes, no storylines of his own. IMO

Although I've had my issues with season 5, I have enjoyed many episodes: Prodigal, The Queen, Search & Rescue, First Contact (not the Lost Tribe) Daedalus Variations & Ghost in the Machine.

And I know this thread isn't the place for it. But honestly, this season I've been over-Kellered to the degree that I actually miss the heck out of the Sheppard and McKay show as you call it as well as the team.

Oh, and Sheppard may be as you said, "a self sacrificing hero" but he never gets the girl. That must be another cliched hero on another show you're watching!

[Integrabyte]

I guess I just don't see Sheppard and McKay as the "cliched male action hero and his buddy" although that's fine that some people do. Shep and McKay have had enough depth thrown in over the years, enough oddness, enough humor and pain to keep them at least a little unique. Besides if Shep and McKay are cliches then I'm sure anyone can make the case that so, in their own way, are all the characters on Stargate and Atlantis combined. And if I was dead set against that I wouldn't watch either show! But to each his own! With the exception of Keller I enjoy all the characters on Atlantis just as I enjoyed them on Stargate.

Personally I wasn't fond of Remnants because the Sheppard part seemed almost thrown in as an afterthought, and thus the episode seemed more than a bit disjointed to me. Poor Shep's had no character development this season, no significant episodes, no storylines of his own. IMO

Although I've had my issues with season 5, I have enjoyed many episodes: Prodigal, The Queen, Search & Rescue, First Contact (not the Lost Tribe) Daedalus Variations & Ghost in the Machine.

And I know this thread isn't the place for it. But honestly, this season I've been over-Kellered to the degree that I actually miss the heck out of the Sheppard and McKay show as you call it as well as the team.

Oh, and Sheppard may be as you said, "a self sacrificing hero" but he never gets the girl. That must be another cliched hero on another show you're watching!

You don't want to go there . We will be here all week. Denise is right when it comes to THE GEL !!!

[Showfan]

You don't want to go there . We will be here all week. Denise is right when it comes to THE GEL !!!

Sorry, I like Shep so you won't hear anything negative from me. And I don't mind him flirting.

On Atlantis it seems

Spoiler:

..only McKay gets the girl.

And I really don't want to argue about it. On this board you never win.

[Integrabyte]

Sorry, I like Shep so you won't hear anything negative from me. And I don't mind him flirting.

On Atlantis it seems

Spoiler:

..only McKay gets the girl.

And I really don't want to argue about it. On this board you never win.

Proof that we are seeing different shows .

[Showfan]

Proof that we are seeing different shows .

Possibly.

But we do see eye to eye on some characters.

[tar21]

This episode was great. Picardo is the best commander Atlantis has ever had. Why is this show getting cancelled? It's really getting up there in quality. The show has finally hit a steady flow. It's rollin' along great.

Can't Atlantis be saved for a few more seasons?

I don't see how a new show can achieve this kind of quality from the start. After much trial and error, cast changes, and the like... it's finally approaching scifi greatness.

I'd say this season is getting as good as some of the better ones in Star Trek: TNG.

Also, the current cast has great Chemistry. Picardo is what this show needed. Woolsey just fits so well. Please.... don't cancel Atlantis.

[nx01a]

Huh? Outsiders, The Queen, The lost Tribe, and First Contact all had Wraith and were great!

Oh, I've enjoyed every episode this season apart from 'Outsiders', 'Tracker' and 'Whispers', and that's despite liking Carson [even as a clone]. It's sad that the clip show 'Inquisition' ranks higher than them for me. While we differ on 'Outsiders', the others you mentioned featured Wraith not running around the forest getting picked off like idiots by our heroes. They featured, well, Todd! And when Todd's around, the other Wraith seem to gain from his common sense. IMO, the episodes I really hated were filler that used the Wraith as the generic 'stupid, kill em easy' bad guys which they're NOT supposed to be.

The whales only were a threat to the Lanteans when they all congregated, which apparently hadn't happened for tens of thousands of years. There wasn't a problem with the whales' subsonic communication until they amassed.
The solar flare couldn't have been predicted or discovered before it was found. McKay says so in the ep.
The Wraith cruiser was all but dead and at the bottom of the ocean, near a vent in the ocean bottom which would be generating heat and possibly other waves or fields which would keep it from being detected. Also, there was only one Wraith who was hibernating, and as we know from S1, hibernating Wraith don't show up on life signs detectors.
The EM fluctuations might not alway be present. They could be intermittent or seasonal or depending upon whether the sun is flaring up or the moons are in phase.
It wasn't a rare Pegasus germ. It was actually very similar to a very common Pegasus germ, akin to chicken pox or mumps here on Earth. So common the city didn't view it as a threat.
My assessment? Not very stupid at all.

The germ was a rare strain of a common pathogen because it had mutated in isolation on that planet for Ancients know how long. It was, if I remember correctly, very close to the original so the sensors didn't pick it up but different enough to cause serious problems for the MW natives.

I get where you're coming from, there may be some things that you can't find... but that doesn't mean that you shouldn't look for them anyway. The ZelenkAI pointed out that they'd 'barely scratched the surface' of their new... or old, by now, home. They know the dangers that they've faced on this planet and on Lantea. The smart thing, IMO, would be to scan the entire planet using every available sensor at your disposal... then have the Daedalus and Apollo do it, too! The work of scanning the planet would take two hours at the most between Rodney configuring the sensors and the actual scan, which was cut short in this episode.

What really annoyed me is that, despite the other disastrous encounters with native dangers on TWO worlds, Rodney simply doesn't care about scanning the planet. I realize that scanning the star and the entire system might be too much of a task, but still... Maybe it'll take Keller getting a brain parasite herself to make him realize that, maybe, those two hours won't be a waste after all.

[Integrabyte]

If you know how to push Rodney he will find a ZPM in a big MAC . Radek new how to push his buttons in this one . "Maybe they will name something after me "

[Skydiver]

shep flirting is one thing....nearly every female throwing herself at him?

fun schtick, but gets real old, real fast.

That didn't happen in this episode....but i jsut can't get shep buying 'i used ancient tech to come back to life' from kolya. he was DEAD. cold and stiff and dead and, iirc, carson even pronounced him dead. why wasn't shep questioning it? why wasn't he going 'this can't be real?' and to fight the hallucination rather than simply buying into it.

I think i would have found it less scattered had shep been fighting it, kolya working to convince him that it's real while we have rod and woolsey 'falling' for it.

a good chunk of the audience knew that it had to be a dream, so go with it. confirm that for us and then let us 'cheer' for shep as he struggled to get rid of kolya, to fight his way back t the city and to convince the others that they're seeing things.

let it be a twist on Fifth Man....where the team 'knew' that they had a fifth team member, lt Tyler, who wasn't a member of the team,but was an alien 'hiding' with the team by making them believe his fantasy, to the point of creating memories. but instead of sam, daniel and teal'c trying to convince hammond and janet and Simmons to let them go back to rescue Jack adn tyler, have it be sheppard fighting his way to the city and convincing the others that they are seeing things. show shep's strength of belief in himself

[Integrabyte]

Denise has had her ANTI coffeeeee today .

[Showfan]

shep flirting is one thing....nearly every female throwing herself at him?

fun schtick, but gets real old, real fast.

That didn't happen in this episode....but i jsut can't get shep buying 'i used ancient tech to come back to life' from kolya. he was DEAD. cold and stiff and dead and, iirc, carson even pronounced him dead. why wasn't shep questioning it? why wasn't he going 'this can't be real?' and to fight the hallucination rather than simply buying into it.

I think i would have found it less scattered had shep been fighting it, kolya working to convince him that it's real while we have rod and woolsey 'falling' for it.

a good chunk of the audience knew that it had to be a dream, so go with it. confirm that for us and then let us 'cheer' for shep as he struggled to get rid of kolya, to fight his way back t the city and to convince the others that they're seeing things.

let it be a twist on Fifth Man....where the team 'knew' that they had a fifth team member, lt Tyler, who wasn't a member of the team,but was an alien 'hiding' with the team by making them believe his fantasy, to the point of creating memories. but instead of sam, daniel and teal'c trying to convince hammond and janet and Simmons to let them go back to rescue Jack adn tyler, have it be sheppard fighting his way to the city and convincing the others that they are seeing things. show shep's strength of belief in himself

I agree with your take on Remnants in general. I'm not a big fan of this episode for most of the reasons you mentioned. However, I don't agree with the highlighted part of your reply.

I just always find the entire Shep "kirking" thing a riot sometimes. Spoilers because it's kind of off topic...

Spoiler:

Season 1 - Shep flirts with alien ascended princess in Sanctuary.
Nothing else all season.
Season 2 - The Tower - near naked girl throws herself at Sheppard
Ephiphany - Stranded for 6 months Sheppard ... OMG...has sex
Inferno - Rodney and Shep both flirt with Narina
Nothing else all season
Season 3 - Not a single woman throws themselves at Sheppard. He doesn't hit on anybody or act inappropriately.
Season 4 - Travelers - Larrin - yuck
Shep and McKay flirt with the Princesses in Harmony. Although it's McKay who doesn't want to leave.
Nothing else all season
Season 5 - Remnants - Shep flirts with botanist.
So far, nothing else all season.

I might be missing something but I'm sure you get the point. This idea of Sheppard's personality has been greatly exaggerated to the level where it kind of gets annoying. I think Shep's a good character and I know not everyone will agree with me. And I've never seen him treat any woman with disrespect.

I'm not the defender of Sheppard's honor in any sense of the word. He's not even my favorite character, but come on, nearly every female throwing themselves at him? I seriously think not.