Pretty messed up....

[Fan-e-Gate]

Perhaps he offered, but Sheppard had more faith in the leader's ability to fool the others with his acting abilities than the Wraith.

Obviously there is always the risk of someone giving away the plan in the real world. I agree with that
However in in Stargate's decade long history rarely has a villain caught on. Lots of suicidal honor missions have been rather successful. More correctly if someone wanted to be devious they can usually achieve this (in the Stargate series).
Even more correctly it is totally out of place in Atlantis which has never really been a show about moral ambiguity or gritty emotional turmoil/callousness.

It was a risk but at the same time the Wraith had no reason to suspect otherwise-they did not know about the Atlantis team being on the planet. And the last time the locals had met the Wraith, they handed over the first group of Balerans. If anything they could have considered them trustworthy. Personally the wraith would probably be more suspicious of someone who wasn't sweating in front of him (they are afterall scary vampires).

I dont think it was messed up at all, I would have done the exact same thing in given the same circumstances. That guy was willing to shop them all to the Wraith, not just the Balarans (sp?), he knew full well Sheppard and all the rest would have been caught also. From the beginning that guy wanted to hand them over to the Wraith without even considering an alternative so tbh I think he got exactly what he deserved. Might sound harsh but what other options were there? Like someone has already mentioned, he clearly wasent on our side, it's not like it was a simple disagreement, he was going to hand them over to the Wraith. I dont see any moral dilemma in this and I dont really see what all the fuss is about ... Sheppard done what was right imo.

Well I don't know you so I guess you would do the same thing (i really don't know)
He however was not going to shop them all off esp not initially. Initially he never even told the Wraith about the Atlantis team. In fact it was the lone Baleran who really only told them about Beckett.
After this he was in prison so how was he ever going to hand Sheppard to the Wraith. Just because he did not agree with Atlantis doesn't mean he was going to tell the wraith about them. Afterall he only needed to give them Balerans.

To assume he was going to hand over the Atlantis team (because he disagreed with them) is just your assumption (not wrong but definetly not right) so that we can justify that it was all self defence.

Only 1 man needed to die (not the whole group) and that man should have known what he was getting himself into.

[Brain_Child]

Only 1 man needed to die (not the whole group) and that man should have known what he was getting himself into.

Gervis and his mob sided with the wraith in an evil plan. they got what they deserved

[jenks]

Gervis and his mob sided with the wraith in an evil plan. they got what they deserved

How is what the Wraith were going to do any more evil than what Sheppard did? Both of them set out to kill a minority for the sake of a majority, how is what Shep did any more noble?

[Lythisrose]

How is what the Wraith were going to do any more evil than what Sheppard did? Both of them set out to kill a minority for the sake of a majority, how is what Shep did any more noble?

Because with Shep's plan, the minority was a group of "evil" Wraith collaborators, and under the Wraith/Jervis plan the minority was a group of innocent plague survivors. They are not equal. Just because they are human does not make them equally worthy of being saved.

And have my doubts that the Wraith would have honored the deal anyway, they perhaps would have had a nice lunch on Jervis and his cohorts before flying away. Without any guilt whatsoever.

[jenks]

Because with Shep's plan, the minority was a group of "evil" Wraith collaborators, and under the Wraith/Jervis plan the minority was a group of innocent plague survivors. They are not equal. Just because they are human does not make them equally worthy of being saved.

And have my doubts that the Wraith would have honored the deal anyway, they perhaps would have had a nice lunch on Jervis and his cohorts before flying away. Without any guilt whatsoever.

I disagree. They were just trying to save their people, there was nothing even remotely evil about them. Sheppard is just a complete hypocrite, and his immaturity shines through. He tries to see everything in black and white and in doing so completely contradicts the values that he's supposed to stand for.

[Lythisrose]

I disagree. They were just trying to save their people, there was nothing even remotely evil about them. Sheppard is just a complete hypocrite, and his immaturity shines through. He tries to see everything in black and white and in doing so completely contradicts the values that he's supposed to stand for.

Ok, I am curious, what are the values that you feel he contradicted?
I think he's always been the type that if you are on his side you are to be protected at all costs, if you are not, then you have chosen to be expendable.
What's new and when has he ever been portrayed as a saint?
Also, in most TV shows, when you throw your lot in with the Enemy, you are fair game to be blown up.

[jenks]

Ok, I am curious, what are the values that you feel he contradicted?
I think he's always been the type that if you are on his side you are to be protected at all costs, if you are not, then you have chosen to be expendable.
What's new and when has he ever been portrayed as a saint?
Also, in most TV shows, when you throw your lot in with the Enemy, you are fair game to be blown up.

OK you have a point there, scratch that last sentence off my post. I stand by the rest though, and you're right, his mentality is based more on us and them instead of right and wrong, which goes back to the immaturity thing. I don't particularly mind these flaws, I just wish they were addressed or at least alluded to instead of just ignored.

[Zamboni]

OK you have a point there, scratch that last sentence off my post. I stand by the rest though, and you're right, his mentality is based more on us and them instead of right and wrong, which goes back to the immaturity thing. I don't particularly mind these flaws, I just wish they were addressed or at least alluded to instead of just ignored.

Let's see how you feel about Shep's "immaturity" if you were in the shoes of those refugees.

The Wraith are the bad guys here. They killed the Ancients, they chased the Asgards into the Abyss, and they have been culling the galaxy for eons. You want to crucify Shep because he killed some idiots who followed the Wraith?

You shouldn't watch Stargate then. You probably think Jack O'Neil is evil for killing that many Goa'ulds, their hosts, and the Jaffas, right? Jack should have been "more mature" and thought of some magical method of winning against galactic oppression without taking a single life.

[Lythisrose]

OK you have a point there, scratch that last sentence off my post. I stand by the rest though, and you're right, his mentality is based more on us and them instead of right and wrong, which goes back to the immaturity thing. I don't particularly mind these flaws, I just wish they were addressed or at least alluded to instead of just ignored.

Perhaps Inquistion will address these issues?

Edit:
When I think about it, Shep might not be the person you'd want to hire as a UN ambassador or diplomat with all the political considerations requred, but he'd be the first one you'd want on your side in a conflict or crisis. He is fulfilling his role as military. Perhaps this is why Todd once told him that he was "more like Wraith than you know."

[jenks]

Let's see how you feel about Shep's "immaturity" if you were in the shoes of those refugees.

If I were one of those refugees, I'd be biased.

The Wraith are the bad guys here. They killed the Ancients, they chased the Asgards into the Abyss, and they have been culling the galaxy for eons. You want to crucify Shep because he killed some idiots who followed the Wraith?

You shouldn't watch Stargate then. You probably think Jack O'Neil is evil for killing that many Goa'ulds, their hosts, and the Jaffas, right? Jack should have been "more mature" and thought of some magical method of winning against galactic oppression without taking a single life.

This isn't even worth responding to, go back and read what I actually wrote, and come back if/when you understand it. I'm criticizing him for not being able to separate right and wrong with us and them, that's what's immature about his decision making, something that you seen to suffer from - 'enemy' and 'bad guy' are not synonymous.

[dasNdanger]

Perhaps Inquistion will address these issues?

They will probably be addressed, but I am certain the team will come out smelling like roses, which would really suck because they are responsible for so many disasters since they set foot in the galaxy. I just wish - for once - they'd be held responsible, instead of always being justified in the end, especially when I find it VERY hard to justify most of what they do. Just makes for very frustrating viewing. Glad this IS the last season, because I don't think my nerves could handle another one.


das

[FallenAngelII]

I don't think John thought they were actually gonna bring the Wraith there, just point them in the right direction.

[Zamboni]

'enemy' and 'bad guy' are not synonymous.

Only if you're siding with the enemy. To all humans, the Wraith are the enemy and therefore the bad guy.

Todd is not a friend. Neither are the villagers who traded Shep's position for their own gain. They are not neutral and they're not on our side, therefore they are the bad guy.

Sheppard was making decisions in battle. There are only two things in war: friend and foe. Gervis and those who followed him took up arms and relinquished their roles as simple civilians. Since they're not on our side, they are bad guys.

Unless you can name one war where this doesn't apply, your "higher morals" and criticisms are moot.

[Giantevilhead]

Clearly Sheppard did not come up with the plan. It's obvious that the village elder blew up the mine to collect the insurance money.

[jenks]

Only if you're siding with the enemy. To all humans, the Wraith are the enemy and therefore the bad guy.

Only if you consider enemy and bad guy to be synonyms, and they're not. By that logic the Atlantis expedition are also the bad guys.

Todd is not a friend. Neither are the villagers who traded Shep's position for their own gain. They are not neutral and they're not on our side, therefore they are the bad guy.

Yes they are, they're civilians trying to save their village.

Sheppard was making decisions in battle. There are only two things in war: friend and foe. Gervis and those who followed him took up arms and relinquished their roles as simple civilians. Since they're not on our side, they are bad guys.

Complete nonsense, this boils down to the juvenile 'you're either with us or against us mentality' that nationalistic crazies try to instil in people.

Unless you can name one war where this doesn't apply, your "higher morals" and criticisms are moot.

How about every modern war? You think allied troops would murder civilians for betraying their position to the enemy?