Pretty messed up....

[Avalonis]

Because hugging them was the right thing to do. I dont want to be on your team I'll end up dead.

[Jackie]

I don't see it as an identity crisis - I see it as the show being capable of doing different things, which is no bad thing IMO.

It's nice to have that option of "doing different things" but because the industry and most viewers have set genres of which novels/movies/TV falls into there is a NEED for consistency. IF SGA cannot decide if it's a comedy/action or edgy drama it will turn off more viewers than not. People have an expectation when they turn into a show like Stargate (one that has been on the air for 5 years now). One expects the main character to be consistent and not swinging from one extreme to the other. Unless your main character is supposed to be borderline psycho it doesn't really help the over all illusion of reality.

With O'Neill they could pull off some borderline psycho moments because Jack was suicidal in the movie.

I don't sheppard think ever had a nervous breakdown or lost his child to his service weapon and laced with massive guilt. There is no reasoning for Sheppard's behavior.

It would be no different than turning BSG into a comedy and no more different than making Harry Potter into a flaming gay, mass murderer. Neither would make the productions appealing.

Or, you know, layered. It's not like this is something sudden - Shep's had his darker moments since the first season - raising the shield to stop the Genii, shooting Bob...

No, as I recall the Genii were INVADING the city and it was the only means of self defense. Shooting Bob - though a stupid move wasn't as off the wall as feeding a grieving father to Todd.

"Layered" as you put it doesn't mean inconstant in character moods and logic. Shriek was layered. Deep with emotion and thought. That is what layered means. Sheppard is just psycho!

[Naonak]

It's nice to have that option of "doing different things" but because the industry and most viewers have set genres of which novels/movies/TV falls into there is a NEED for consistency. IF SGA cannot decide if it's a comedy/action or edgy drama it will turn off more viewers than not.

It's a bit silly IMO to limit it to being either "comedy/action" or "edgy drama". Seriously, not all drama has to be "edgy". Tonally it's similar to Firefly or early Farscape, with a good mix of fun action-adventure and drama. (And I'm not saying it's as good as either of those, before anyone starts *****ing...)

And most episodes of both Stargates do fall into the category of relatively light-hearted action-adventure, but some take it to either side, going more comedic or more dramatic than usual. Heck, this was just one scene in Outsiders - it had plenty of comic relief, too, with the Rodney/Carson pairing.

No, as I recall the Genii were INVADING the city and it was the only means of self defense.

Yeah, I know that, but I still see it as a slightly dodgy moment. But it was a case of the ends justifying the means, and I guess I see this moment in Outsiders as another.

Shooting Bob - though a stupid move wasn't as off the wall as feeding a grieving father to Todd.

At least they got something out of feeding Todd - shooting Bob was basically just venting his anger...

"Layered" as you put it doesn't mean inconstant in character moods and logic. Shriek was layered. Deep with emotion and thought. That is what layered means. Sheppard is just psycho!

Eh, I see him differently... (Obviously... )

[tombombadil]

How can your ancestors be slaughtered if you're here? Unless you were already around during WW2...? Never met an old timer who likes SGA so much...

great great grandparents died in holocaust great grandfather and grandfather lived<snip>

[tombombadil]

at the very least, we can say that what they did was very questionable.

[Jackie]

It's a bit silly IMO to limit it to being either "comedy/action" or "edgy drama". Seriously, not all drama has to be "edgy". Tonally it's similar to Firefly or early Farscape, with a good mix of fun action-adventure and drama. (And I'm not saying it's as good as either of those, before anyone starts *****ing...)

The genre is industry standard...not mine. When I submit a manuscript I have to state what type of genre it fall into and even give recent examples of other published work. The genres are very basic and the work needs to fall into one major category. Sci-fiction, fiction, literary, non fiction, historical, historical fiction, family, juvenile, western, action/adventure, fantasy. (Fantasy and science fiction are viewed as two different categories for the most part) Mainstream, contempuary, gay/lesbian, ect.

It's fine to have a combination of elements in the show but it has be done with consistency. It's fine to have a "darker episode" but it has to be consistent with the character's set cannon and expectations of the viewers. The problem I have with SGA is the lack of consistency from ep to ep with character (except Teyla--she's still a wall flower) and the general direction of the show.

IMO sheppard is not very consistent as a character. His past seems to have no bearing on his future. (Another major character development no-no. The past always affects the character.) Matter of fact we don't much about sheppard. We know more about Rodney than Sheppard. Heck, we more Keller and woosley than sheppard. He's basically a marty stu to the extreme. Can fly anything, do anything, get's the chicks, smarter than the scientist, John wayne, shoot first ask questions later type character.

The only reason he's not an obvious Mart Stu is becuase JF can act with the crap he's given. Gold star to JF.

[Zamboni]

great great grandparents died in holocaust great grandfather and grandfather lived<snip>.

I didn't kill your forefathers. Why are you calling me a jerk? You specifically said "the slaughtered Jews you speak of are my ancestors" as if all your ancestors were murdered during the Holocost. It's a valid for me to question the origin of your existence if that was the case.

If you're comparing the Wraith sympathizers (ie. guys with shotguns that got blown up) to Nazi supporters, then I do not see why you would have a problem with killing them. Unless you are deeply conflicted with the killing of Nazis in WW2.

The ultimate point of a WW2 analogy is that one side is pure evil (Axis) while the others are pure good (Allies). Granted this is never true on a macro level but this is Stargate; it's not an analytical historic documentary. You want to argue morals? Why not put Shep on trial for all the Wraith he killed? The Wraith aren't killing humans out of greed or racial purity, they're killing humans for survival.

If I were to say "Every member of my entire family was killed in Nanking massacre", you'd probably wonder how I came into existence. Don't be reaching for the "you're a Nazi" tag every time someone questions your words on an unrelated context.

[tombombadil]

I didn't kill your forefathers. Why are you calling me a jerk? You specifically said "the slaughtered Jews you speak of are my ancestors" as if all your ancestors were murdered during the Holocost. It's a valid for me to question the origin of your existence if that was the case.

If you're comparing the Wraith sympathizers (ie. guys with shotguns that got blown up) to Nazi supporters, then I do not see why you would have a problem with killing them. Unless you are deeply conflicted with the killing of Nazis in WW2.

The ultimate point of a WW2 analogy is that one side is pure evil (Axis) while the others are pure good (Allies). Granted this is never true on a macro level but this is Stargate; it's not an analytical historic documentary. You want to argue morals? Why not put Shep on trial for all the Wraith he killed? The Wraith aren't killing humans out of greed or racial purity, they're killing humans for survival.

If I were to say "Every member of my entire family was killed in Nanking massacre", you'd probably wonder how I came into existence. Don't be reaching for the "you're a Nazi" tag every time someone questions your words on an unrelated context.

killing with out any official ruling or trial is what they did we gave them trials to make them acknowledge what they did was wrong

[Skydiver]

guys, i understand the similarities, but let's not get too far off topic please.

[dasNdanger]

I think it was pretty messed up of the team to use that dude(the one who tried to turn the people over to the wraith) to lure the wraith into a trap, and then blow him up.....even if the guy was guilty, he was still acting for what he thought was good for the village.....does anyone else think this was wrong?

Yes, it was wrong. And it wasn't just one man, there were other villagers with him - I counted at least 5.

So, many humans were killed to get rid of a few Wraith that Ronon could have easily dispatched, given his skills as a hunter, and his Wraith body count in Sateda.



das

[Finger13]

I would have just chucked the block of C4 at the Wraith at the gate lol, BOOM.

But that could damage the DHD.

I still think Shepperd was justified.

[tombombadil]

I would have just chucked the block of C4 at the Wraith at the gate lol, BOOM.

But that could damage the DHD.

I still think Shepperd was justified.

even then they could've just waited until the Daedalus was sent to investigate. there were alternatives that Sheppard didn't even explore....

[Finger13]

even then they could've just waited until the Daedalus was sent to investigate. there were alternatives that Sheppard didn't even explore....

How do you know where the Daedalus was? They never mention it as far as I can remember. For all we know it was in the MW. And waiting for a few weeks to be rescued while a Hive is in orbit isn't exactly convenient or practical. That's far too long to hold out against a Hive full of Wraith, and they could have continued sending darts from the Hive and troops through the gate.

[tombombadil]

How do you know where the Daedalus was? They never mention it as far as I can remember. For all we know it was in the MW. And waiting for a few weeks to be rescued while a Hive is in orbit isn't exactly convenient or practical. That's far too long to hold out against a Hive full of Wraith, and they could have continued sending darts and troops through the gate.

good point....i forgot about the hive

[Zamboni]

Let's not forget that Deady is probably under repairs from damages done by Ronan, the Wraith, and re-entering atmosphere w/o shields. If they had access to Deady Shep would have said so instead of claiming they would bring more PJs.

And another detail no one managed to bring up, the 5 villagers Sheppard killed were responsible for the death of dozens of people including that girl Novo.

We've seen how the Wraith "reward" the ones who betray others for their selfish gains, do you really believe Jervis would have saved anyone?

It's not like they were dancing in joy after detonating the C4; Shep wasn't happy about killing Jervis either but it had to be done. I'm sure if Jervis had learned from his past misdeeds Shep would have found another way to kill the Wraiths.