I Throw Up My Hands in Defeat: The Triangle IS Poorly Written

[Pandora's_Box]

In the end it's all a matter of personal opinion. Personally I disagree.

Ok. So in your opinion then, how is it well written?

[Commander Zelix]

I think the writers make this triangle from the same mold of as romantic comedy movies. It was obvious right from the start (when Ronon and McKay talked to each other about it).

[dasNdanger]

I think the writers make this triangle from the same mold of as romantic comedy movies. It was obvious right from the start (when Ronon and McKay talked to each other about it).

Exactly. It actually reminds me of an old Hope & Crosby Road movie...

Ronon and Rodney, in Road to M6H-987...



das

[Lythisrose]

"I Throw Up My Hands in Defeat: The Triangle IS Poorly Written"

Nothing against any of the characters individually, but...

Lately, I just throw up.......

[Reiko]

Except the writers can change the canon if they like. It's their creation, not ours.

So, by your definition, there is no such thing as "out of character" -- anything the writers do, no matter how far off point is, will always be "in character" because they are the PTB. So there is no established canon, just whatever the individual writer feels like writing at the moment and could change in the next?

It's blatant retconning, and it's shoddy writing at its best. With SGA, it seems to be done every episode, and though Stargate has never been too good on episode-to-episode continuity, this is an absolute mess.

But if they're constantly doing that then what's the point? There will never be any tension in any sort of situation because the writers can just change any character to suit the environment at will..

Exactly. If they want Keller to be helpless and need to be protected by Ronon and it fit's, they'll mold the character that way. Next episode, if they want to show how she can defend for herself, she'll become Kung Ku Keller. And the next episode, she'll be reverting back to her old self. If they want to make an episode about Sheppard and the 'hot' all-female team, they'll sculpt him so he's more fun to play with in that situation. If they need to have plot, they'll have all the characters act stupid.

In short, they're always changing the characters to fit whatever the given plot may be. They're not heeding, or even listening to the rule of change the plot to fit the characters, not changing the characters to fit the plots. It really isn't that hard -- and if it is, like this love triangle may be, I'd toss it out the window.

And, as all things go, even if we do get decent "character development" -- it's highly probable it won't be carried over into next week's ep.

[Rac80]

What have been OCC for McKay and Ronon so far?

As far the love confession..we don't know what else is on that tape and why Jenn was watching it over and over..yea I didn't like that either..but all we know is what McKay said not what Jenn may have said or what else McKay might have said..and I don't blame Jenn for not taking it serious..he was sick at the time, perhaps she is waiting for him to say something now that he is better..he asked her out to dinner...which I didn't see her saying yes to..so whether or not he remembers these things if his feelings where there before then McKay needs to man up and go ask her out

ah but mckay isn't a man...he is whiner! and we only saw her watch the "confession" ONCE, NOT "over and over"!

Exactly. It actually reminds me of an old Hope & Crosby Road movie...

Ronon and Rodney, in Road to M6H-987...



das

Ok I can see Jenn as dorothy lamour but mckay MUST be hope --he's bald and a joke! mental green for you!

[Falcon Horus]

*giggles* This is entertaining... Far better probably then the episode it's about, which I haven't seen and won't know when I'll watch it.

But anyway... First I would like to get something of my mind...

I TOLD YOU SO!!!

Okay, now that's done...

Is this just because TPTB honestly can't write romantic relationships believably or are they actually making it this weird on purpose?

Like FAII I wouldn't put it past them to do it on purpose, BUT SG PTB have never been able to write anything remotely romantically shippy... even if their life depended on it, they would fail miserably and death would welcome them with open arms.

However, personally I think such matters are best left alone and left to the rose-colored glasses with which some viewers like to watch. You don't need much to get your audience shipping characters.

[lissad27]

However, personally I think such matters are best left alone and left to the rose-colored glasses with which some viewers like to watch. You don't need much to get your audience shipping characters.

Exactly.

One of the drawbacks of a love angle (of any number: 2, 3 or 12) is the writers end up polarizing their audience (even more so than already, that is) and pandering to the in-question relationship's particular camp. In this case: they're pandering to the McKeller's and the Ronon/Keller people. What is this? A two-for-one special?

I for one would rather see well-written...no, CONSISTENTLY well-written episodes for the characters and the plots, than the drivel of a love (Bermuda) triangle. As it is, all we're getting (for these three characters in this particular subplot) is junior high school drama.

[lissad27]

we only saw her watch the "confession" ONCE, NOT "over and over"!

Technically, she watched the tape twice...we/she only saw confession once.

Something to think about though: we know she's already heard the confession - Keller knew it was on the tape. She was in the room when McKay said it. Irregardless of how many times we see her watching that tape (2X), why watch it at all? Unless it's somehow important to the viewer, Keller in this case, or as a future plot device.

I actually had less trouble with the fruit cup thing, and the hair patting (or whatever) thing...which I didn't actually notice the first time. However, this tape business seriously compromises Keller's integrity as a doctor and a character - albeit, after the fact. Yeah, she stood up for her patient. Yeah, she was trying her hardest to cure him (as stated in the episode). But then this tape thing brings into question: whether she was the BEST doctor for the job. Not because of credentials, but because of professional objectivity.

I don't like Keller (which is for elsewhere), but until this point the writers hadn't made me question her ethics/objectivity as a doctor. And they did this to the character ... why? Because of a love triangle. Hmph.

Square peg, round hole anyone?

[kali1]

:: passes the popcorn :: You want M&Ms too? They're peanut.

Another note about the poorly conceived triangle. Is this just because TPTB honestly can't write romantic relationships believably or are they actually making it this weird on purpose?

Is this a vicarious thrill thing?

Or all of the above? The current PTB have no clue on how to write romance because they don't know the first thing about it. When your main focus is on cleavage, leather and the sexy, kick butt female or female alien, how can you begin to be serious about writing romance in the first place?? IMO, they think romance is about a man having a dream about a date, a couple kissing out of the blue, someone discovering they are pregnant or someone confessing they are in love when there has never been any evidence of affection going on in the first place. The Teyla being pregnant story line still bugs me but I digress.

A true romance, like any good story, has a beginning, middle and end. You give evidence of affection...even if it's ever so slight and then you slowly build upon it. Romance needs to be treated gently, otherwise, all it becomes is lust. Romance is a slow dance - it's not a mosh pit.

I swear, I think the SGA writers get together and have a few before they write their story. It certainly seems that way especially with s 4 - 5. But...that's my opinion.

[SoulReaver]

I Throw Up My Hands in Defeat: The Triangle IS Poorly Written

http://www.youtube.com/swf/l.swf?swf...s=1&autoplay=1

[FallenAngelII]

Stuff.

It was obviously the writers' way to reveal to the audience that Rodney is in love with Jennifer and that Jennifer at least finds that endearing. Also, to indicate that she's rewatching it just for that part.

[Pandora's_Box]

http://www.youtube.com/swf/l.swf?swf...s=1&autoplay=1

Can that be my theme song? I'll green you just for that awesomeness!

[Rac80]

Technically, she watched the tape twice...we/she only saw confession once.

Something to think about though: we know she's already heard the confession - Keller knew it was on the tape. She was in the room when McKay said it. Irregardless of how many times we see her watching that tape (2X), why watch it at all? Unless it's somehow important to the viewer, Keller in this case, or as a future plot device.

I actually had less trouble with the fruit cup thing, and the hair patting (or whatever) thing...which I didn't actually notice the first time. However, this tape business seriously compromises Keller's integrity as a doctor and a character - albeit, after the fact. Yeah, she stood up for her patient. Yeah, she was trying her hardest to cure him (as stated in the episode). But then this tape thing brings into question: whether she was the BEST doctor for the job. Not because of credentials, but because of professional objectivity.

I don't like Keller (which is for elsewhere), but until this point the writers hadn't made me question her ethics/objectivity as a doctor. And they did this to the character ... why? Because of a love triangle. Hmph.

Square peg, round hole anyone?

we only saw her watch two different parts of the tape one time each. She shut it off the first time we saw her, she hadn't reached the so-called confession yet. and did she see him make that part? we know she is taping part of it, but in that segment there is no indication she is there.
Sorry just mho.

[Ncc-72452]

I'm glad to see more people coming on board and voicing their trepidation about the love triangle. I groaned out load when I read about it online.

Not only did it involve Keller, but for pairing #1, which we'll call McKay and Keller, you're pairing Keller, roughly in her late twenties with McKay, roughly in his mid-forties. Now, I understand that some people don't have a problem with large age gaps between couples. True love and all that... But almost 20 years?

For pairing #2, which we'll call Dex and Keller, you're pairing one individual dedicated to tearing people apart with an individual dedicated to putting people back together. Now, I understand that some people don't have a problem with opposites attracting. True love and all that... But I've found that large scale differences lead to large scale arguments.

In all seriousness, I have just been ignoring the whole triangle thing. And, in the last episode, it wasn't even my biggest compliant.

Spoiler:

At the end, when they "contain" the explosion in a forcefield. That is a horrible affront to physics. An explosion is a rapid release of energy. While the energy itself can be captured, theoretically, the action of it being released cannot be, and by contained, I mean stored. In context of the episode, they were bleeding off the "explosion" until they couldn't contain it anymore. Wait, I know some of you are saying that a star is an example of a contained explosion. Actually, a star is a series of continuous fusion explosions hampered by the gravitation of its mass. It is continually exploding and collapsing in the same instant. The explosions are not stored. In FC, the initial explosion would have been contained, but it would not keep exploding. The energy would have found some outlet, whether in heat, sound, vibration, light, radiation, or the conversion of matter (air, stargate, and floor) into very hot plasma. The point is, once the initial blast was contained, they would have been out of the woods. All they would have had to do is contain the plasma until it cooled. If the shield could contain the initial massive explosion, it would have no problem containing the remnants. As the remnant plasma cloud cooled, the shield's job would become easier and easier. I just scowled when Zelenka said, "Every second that it is contained within the shield, the explosion gets weaker." The explosion, confined to such a small area, would have been instantaneous. The explosion was gone before he said that. The danger would be in containing the super hot plasma cloud. And if Atlantis's shield could deflect a planet wide coronal mass ejection, rest assured, it could contain a small volume of even super hot plasma until it cooled, even on one ZPM. And even in the unlikely event that it couldn't, they should simply have expanded the volume of the shield and let it bleed off more energy by heating and converting more air into plasma, and, by spreading the heated material over a larger volume, it would cool faster.