S5: Critique and Contemplations

[Falcon Horus]

part of it i can understand, rachel wanted time off.

If we translate this to reality - Caden was born in October (right?) which meant that she was off work before the last episode was being filmed. I think there was an interview somewhere where she says that the boys are still on set while she already finished filming, at the end of September.

Season 5 started filming in March (?) - that's 6 months later which is the time period of maternity leave, is it not? After which mommies have to go back to work, right?

I would assume this would translate to more Teyla in season 5 since JM said as much in his blog. However, he once again proved that whatever he says has to be taken with a huge bolder of salt because there was even less Teyla in season 5 than there was in season 4.

Well we were told that "We will see a lot more Teyla this season" JM's word (on his blog a while back) not mine

See, I wasn't the only one to have seen it.

Something to string the Teyla-fans along - whom saw the cloud hanging a season earlier already, that it would need a miracle to break the circle of McKay.

[Killdeer]

Warning: Quote-heavy reply ahead.

I think the premise was an interesting one; the creation of a Hive ship. That's cool. That's uber cool. That's why-I-watch-SF kind of cool. I would have loved to see more of that. Maybe if the idea had been introduced already (or just an inkling of it) and developed in this one I could have enjoyed the episode more, but as it was it felt rushed. Nothing was really explained. Too much happened (Keller taken over, Carson brought back, Hive creation revealed) and nothing was done justice.

the seed had plenty of (unrealized) potential and left several unanswered questions for me: is there a human at the "heart" of every hive? or is it just any sentient creature? where are they grown? would it have turned all of atlantis into a hive?

yeah, is the central core of a hive like the BSG ships, controlled by a 'person'? and if that had been true, could those people be turned into betraying the wraith. what if they were captives, held prisoner, then if they could be turned/liberated the wraith's own ships could be their enemies.

are hives really that easy to grow? or, since they're biological in a way, could a vaccine shut them down and cause tehm to fall apart?

It's liek this cool idea was thought of, then only half thought out, then lost for the rest of the season/series

I agree with all of this, but Skydiver's last sentence sums this up for me. This was a very cool idea. But they took this very cool idea, and reduced it to a plot device for this one episode, never to be seen or mentioned again.

The ending was rushed and stupid. There goes Sheppard saving the day and being all heroic with the odds against him, taking on a Hive that somehow managed to worm it's way through the walls of Atlantis but couldn't stop John Sheppard.

Oh, and the climax was a little hard to swallow with Shep running a jumper through the thing and easily getting up (no seatbelts? no airbag? And he's fine???). And then the creature just lets him do his thing. People tried to say it was stunned from the impact... Well... Shep would have been just as stunned if not more...

Completely agree with this. I hate this ending. I really really do. I'm sorry - I love John, but this ending made absolutely no sense whatsoever to me, and after S&R, my tolerance for seeing Sheppard play the reckless hero card yet again was pretty much nonexistent.

I wanted to see Teyla save the day. Why is that so hard, seriously? I mean come on. This is Wraith, right? Teyla can connect with the Wraith. We've never seen that the Wraith can connect with their ships on any level, but we haven't seen that they can't either, especially in this growing stage. Or maybe Teyla's Wraith gene would have allowed her to get through where Ronon couldn't, while John kept distracting it by talking to it from the control room.

I don't know. I just really badly wanted it to be Teyla. And I still don't see why it couldn't have been.

here's the city, that's intelligent, that marooned people before when it sensed a biological hazard...that then allows a wraith hive ship to start to grow.

I'm not sure on this one. I know the city has responded to situations such as in Hot Zone and Quarantine, but I don't think we've ever seen it lockdown in response to detecting Wraith presence (which, why not? That seems like it would have been useful).

Something I liked? Rodney's attentiveness to Keller's situation. I know, I know. The ship is not a popular one, but had it remained quiet and in the background like Rodney's concern for her here, then I would have liked the development of it more. This reminds of why I actually started liking this ship to begin with. Everything that happens later just ruins it for me.

Almost.

In the seed it was Teyla that sense something was wrong, and in Identity it was Ronon that sensed something was wrong, so much for the love of her life knowing her

Rodney looked put out when Teyla called him to Keller's quarters, doesn't sound or look like a man concerned or in love So yes IMO this whole love thing appeared outta no where in the shrine

I'm with PB on this one. If they had kept McKeller to just the background level it was here, I would have stayed just fine with it. But I also agree with Linda that he doesn't look like a man in love, and I don't think he was supposed to be, at this point. Which is why the 0 to 60 approach in The Shrine still makes absolutely no sense to me.

One more comment - I actually don't mind that it was Jennifer, in one sense. I don't get the sense that the episode was really about Jennifer so much as it was just a plot device to take her out of the action so they could use Carson. On the other hand, it still doesn't make sense to me from an in-story perspective that it was Jennifer. She was only on the planet for a short amount of time, compared to Sheppard, Ronon, Rodney, Lorne, etc. It would have seemed more logical that one of them would have developed symptoms first. And really, do they have that much problem writing for two doctors at the same time that they have to take one of them out of the action? It would have been interesting to see Jennifer and Carson working together to save Sheppard, for example. I mean, he was the most severely injured on the planet - it seems like it would make sense that his symptoms would manifest first.

[Briangate78]

The Seed was a decent enough episode. However when I look at Season 4's 2nd episode there is not comparison. Lifeline was what you would call one of those epic eps and will always remember that scene with Weir and Sheppard as a key moment in the series. The Seed had the return of Beckett which was great to see him back. Given he got a lot of screentime, I just felt how they unfroze him was way too simple. It was like "Oh yeah we now have a cure"? I wanted to see them go after Michael to get the cure and then maybe in the end of that episode revive Carson. It just felt too easy. They did not really keep to the Kindred until a little in "Outsiders". So "The Seed" was a mediocre ep for me. I did like Sheppard crashing into the city though.

[Linda06]

If we translate this to reality - Caden was born in October (right?) which meant that she was off work before the last episode was being filmed. I think there was an interview somewhere where she says that the boys are still on set while she already finished filming, at the end of September.

Season 5 started filming in March (?) - that's 6 months later which is the time period of maternity leave, is it not? After which mommies have to go back to work, right?

I would assume this would translate to more Teyla in season 5 since JM said as much in his blog. However, he once again proved that whatever he says has to be taken with a huge bolder of salt because there was even less Teyla in season 5 than there was in season 4.



See, I wasn't the only one to have seen it.

Something to string the Teyla-fans along - whom saw the cloud hanging a season earlier already, that it would need a miracle to break the circle of McKay.

Yes there was little Lemming and you have the numbers to prove it And it wasn't just a little bit of difference either, she was used in S5 wayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy less than S4

Well maybe he said that to get us off his back for a while He still can't see how shafted Teyla was *shakes head*

Completely agree with this. I hate this ending. I really really do. I'm sorry - I love John, but this ending made absolutely no sense whatsoever to me, and after S&R, my tolerance for seeing Sheppard play the reckless hero card yet again was pretty much nonexistent.

I wanted to see Teyla save the day. Why is that so hard, seriously? I mean come on. This is Wraith, right? Teyla can connect with the Wraith. We've never seen that the Wraith can connect with their ships on any level, but we haven't seen that they can't either, especially in this growing stage. Or maybe Teyla's Wraith gene would have allowed her to get through where Ronon couldn't, while John kept distracting it by talking to it from the control room.

Now wouldn't that have made a nice change, Teyla actually saving the day for once instead of hero Shep But as for the wraith thing she's got, didn't she lose that ability when she gave birth to Torren (Outsiders )

Ya know, after a while this reckless hero stuff gets tiresome, it gets to the point now that when it happens i'm just....MEH, so what...Same with this whole Rodney is dying.....AGAIN...I'm like so what, we all know he's not gonna die anyways

I don't know. I just really badly wanted it to be Teyla. And I still don't see why it couldn't have been.

Well if you wanted it to really be Teyla then they would have to actually write for Teyla and we all know just how much they "looooooooooooove" doing that

I'm with PB on this one. If they had kept McKeller to just the background level it was here, I would have stayed just fine with it. But I also agree with Linda that he doesn't look like a man in love, and I don't think he was supposed to be, at this point. Which is why the 0 to 60 approach in The Shrine still makes absolutely no sense to me.

One more comment - I actually don't mind that it was Jennifer, in one sense. I don't get the sense that the episode was really about Jennifer so much as it was just a plot device to take her out of the action so they could use Carson. On the other hand, it still doesn't make sense to me from an in-story perspective that it was Jennifer. She was only on the planet for a short amount of time, compared to Sheppard, Ronon, Rodney, Lorne, etc. It would have seemed more logical that one of them would have developed symptoms first. And really, do they have that much problem writing for two doctors at the same time that they have to take one of them out of the action? It would have been interesting to see Jennifer and Carson working together to save Sheppard, for example. I mean, he was the most severely injured on the planet - it seems like it would make sense that his symptoms would manifest first.

I'm afraid i've developed such a hatred for Keller and Rodney that even if it was in the background I still wouldn't like it I don't think anything would make me like this pairing

As for writing for two doctors, well they certainly have a hard time writing for two females (sometimes even one female ) most of the time so..........Does this answer your question

[jelgate]

Not unless the people writing the canon of the show decide that the canon makes it such that the goo contains some chemical that inhibits the host from realising what is happening and talking about it.

It's not like it would be the first time such a thing were introduced in SF.

I think that is a possibility that the Wraith "stuff was affecting her mind. Look towards the end of the episode it gained intelligence and began speaking through Keller.

[Skydiver]

I'm not sure on this one. I know the city has responded to situations such as in Hot Zone and Quarantine, but I don't think we've ever seen it lockdown in response to detecting Wraith presence (which, why not? That seems like it would have been useful).

part of me can see this, the other part asks 'ok, we got tendrils growing through the walls and floors and this semi-intelligent city doesn't get a clue and react?

[Killdeer]

part of me can see this, the other part asks 'ok, we got tendrils growing through the walls and floors and this semi-intelligent city doesn't get a clue and react?

LOL - true.

[Stormtrooper]

You realize that most of the objections towards the Keller character wouldn't apply to RepliKeller?

RepliKeller kicking Wraith butt... No problem there.
McKay dating a machine... Makes sense.
Etc., etc.

Therefore, if TPTW wanted to make Keller their front and center invincible nymph, I say they should have killed Keller and kept RepliKeller.

Plus, RepliKeller wouldn't ask all those annoying newbie questions in almost every episode.

I think I could have liked such character.

[Falcon Horus]

But as for the wraith thing she's got, didn't she lose that ability when she gave birth to Torren (Outsiders )

Maybe someone should have informed TPTB that you can't actually lose DNA. It can be altered but that doesn't happen in a flash (unless it's a nuclear flash).

[Linda06]

Maybe someone should have informed TPTB that you can't actually lose DNA. It can be altered but that doesn't happen in a flash (unless it's a nuclear flash).

Well apparently we were all wrong, apparently you can lose DNA, or maybe they just misplaced it

[Blue Shadowdancer]

I think it's been apparent for quite some time that TPTB don't understand how DNA works

[Falcon Horus]

I think it's been apparent for quite some time that TPTB don't understand how DNA works

Mmm.... it's shocking, isn't it?

[marielabbott]

Did the tendrils coming from Keller remind anyone else of Devil's Snare from the Harry Potter universe?

I liked a few things about the episode, Radek's whump and Teyla coming to his rescue. I was also glad that they showed Woolsey out of his depth.

If they really wanted to make this season darker, right from the beginning, then they should have had Sheppard kill Keller, during that bit when he pointed his gun at her, ready to kill her if necessary. It would've created a lot of angst for many characters if he would've been forced to pull the trigger--for Sheppard; for Ronon who initially failed to deliver the injection; for Woolsey who would've lost a senior staff member during his first week; for Carson who tried his best to save her; and for the rest of the expedition. If TBTB had chosen to bring Carson back full time, I think it would've been a very impactful way to change the ending of the episode, and have Sheppard fire. Well...except probably her death would have been remarked upon as little as the previous character deaths.

I'm afraid i've developed such a hatred for Keller and Rodney that even if it was in the background I still wouldn't like it I don't think anything would make me like this pairing

Yeah, I still wouldn't have liked it, but I would've had a much easier time in tolerating it if it would've been low-key instead of in-your-face.

[jelgate]

Mmm.... it's shocking, isn't it?

I learned a long time ago that I have suspend my scientific knowledge when it comes to SciFi shows. They all contradict real science more then they get it right.

[jelgate]

If they really wanted to make this season darker, right from the beginning, then they should have had Sheppard kill Keller, during that bit when he pointed his gun at her, ready to kill her if necessary. It would've created a lot of angst for many characters if he would've been forced to pull the trigger--for Sheppard; for Ronon who initially failed to deliver the injection; for Woolsey who would've lost a senior staff member during his first week; for Carson who tried his best to save her; and for the rest of the expedition. If TBTB had chosen to bring Carson back full time, I think it would've been a very impactful way to change the ending of the episode, and have Sheppard fire. Well...except probably her death would have been remarked upon as little as the previous character deaths.

That would be too much of a reset button to me. It reminds me what they did with Jonas in SG1. I always hated how we reset to the status quo and totally forget about Jonas in S7 because everyone wanted Shanks back as Daniel. It just seems lazy. O we don't like how this character is developing so lets bring the original.