S5: Critique and Contemplations

[Falcon Horus]

I learned a long time ago that I have suspend my scientific knowledge when it comes to SciFi shows. They all contradict real science more then they get it right.

Yes, but Teyla was established as having wraith DNA in her genetic make-up, losing that would need a serious explanation. But they just forgot they had a character with Wraith DNA until they found it useful as a plotdevice.

[jelgate]

Yes, but Teyla was established as having wraith DNA in her genetic make-up, losing that would need a serious explanation. But they just forgot they had a character with Wraith DNA until they found it useful as a plotdevice.

Can't argue with that one. Teyla was nothing more then a plot device when it came to Wraith

[Stormtrooper]

That would be too much of a reset button to me. It reminds me what they did with Jonas in SG1. I always hated how we reset to the status quo and totally forget about Jonas in S7 because everyone wanted Shanks back as Daniel. It just seems lazy. O we don't like how this character is developing so lets bring the original.

Except Jonas Quinn was a fine character. Keller wasn't. So no big loss there. Besides, they didn't have to give her job to clone Beckett. They could have chosen someone else. Dr. Biro would have been a great choice. The doctor from Whispers, the one who played Dax on DS9, would have also been a great choice.

Unfortunately, going dark really meant turning off the lights for TPTW.

[Linda06]

I think it's been apparent for quite some time that TPTB don't understand how DNA works

Apparently not

[Scary Kitty]

As everyone's already covered my own headshaking moments on Search and Rescue and The Seed, I’ll offer these thoughts instead.

One of the intriguing ideas that stuck with me following The Last Man was the question of what a future with Sheppard still in Atlantis might hold. Would everything that we saw in the alternate timeline simply not happen, or was it possible that some things could still happen, albeit through a different chain of events? Carter’s departure and replacement by Woolsey, while not originally part of the plan for Season 5 when TLM was written, actually proved to be one of the things I liked most about Search and Rescue, because it said to me, ‘just because they got Sheppard back and they got Teyla and Torren back safe before Michael could wreak havoc doesn’t mean that they’ve averted the disastrous turn of events we saw unfold in TLM.’

I had hoped that we might see more hints of the potential future of TLM popping up to haunt Sheppard throughout Season 5, and we got that to a certain extent with the rise of McKeller (sadly, with atrocious writing for the pairing) and finding out in Enemy at the Gate that Carter was taking command of the Phoenix George Hammond, as well as a significant divergence from the TLM AU with the (supposed) fall of Michael. Still, I wanted more; I wanted to see Sheppard looking over his shoulder, worrying about whether or not the actions being taken by Atlantis might still lead to a future like TLM, but other than Keller and McKay briefly referencing the events TLM early in The Seed, we got nada. Kinda disappointing, as it meant that the status quo of ignoring past history except when convenient was still in effect.

[Ncc-72452]

As everyone's already covered my own headshaking moments on Search and Rescue and The Seed, I’ll offer these thoughts instead.

One of the intriguing ideas that stuck with me following The Last Man was the question of what a future with Sheppard still in Atlantis might hold. Would everything that we saw in the alternate timeline simply not happen, or was it possible that some things could still happen, albeit through a different chain of events? Carter’s departure and replacement by Woolsey, while not originally part of the plan for Season 5 when TLM was written, actually proved to be one of the things I liked most about Search and Rescue, because it said to me, ‘just because they got Sheppard back and they got Teyla and Torren back safe before Michael could wreak havoc doesn’t mean that they’ve averted the disastrous turn of events we saw unfold in TLM.’

I had hoped that we might see more hints of the potential future of TLM popping up to haunt Sheppard throughout Season 5, and we got that to a certain extent with the rise of McKeller (sadly, with atrocious writing for the pairing) and finding out in Enemy at the Gate that Carter was taking command of the Phoenix George Hammond, as well as a significant divergence from the TLM AU with the (supposed) fall of Michael. Still, I wanted more; I wanted to see Sheppard looking over his shoulder, worrying about whether or not the actions being taken by Atlantis might still lead to a future like TLM, but other than Keller and McKay briefly referencing the events TLM early in The Seed, we got nada. Kinda disappointing, as it meant that the status quo of ignoring past history except when convenient was still in effect.

This was my MAJOR problem with TLM. Sheppard is the principle "star" of Atlantis, the main hero, if you will. He disappears, and the future gets all messed up, but it's not because of HIS disappearance... It's because of Teyla's unborn baby that the universe gets all outta whack. He provides some kind of crucial link between Michael's old hybrids and his new uber ones. What link? Well, annoyingly, we never find out. We simply use Sheppard as a conduit to send important information back in time to save the REALLY important person, Teyla's unborn baby.

Perhaps doing it the way I was expecting would have been a cliche, but I don't think there's other way to do it, especially if you want the audience to respect your main character's importance.

[Killdeer]

Are we ready to move on to Broken Ties? I don't want to rush anyone.

[jelgate]

Are we ready to move on to Broken Ties? I don't want to rush anyone.

That depends. Does FH want to see me go anti because I really dislike BT especially with that terrible sword fight

[Skydiver]

the summary of broken ties

Spoiler:

Collecting plant stuffs, Ronon Dex and Teyla Emmagan stroll though a wooded area. They chuckle over Kanaan's transition to living in Atlantis. Ronon spots a body in a clearing and, as he approaches it, he is ambushed and shot three times with a Wraith stunner. As he collapses, Teyla sees the attacker: Ronon's former friend and fellow Satedan, Tyre ("Reunion"). Tyre also stuns Teyla, but leaves her on the planet when he takes Ronon. She returns to Atlantis to report Ronon's kidnapping.

Unable to track Ronon, Lt. Colonel John Sheppard presumes Tyre wanted Ronon alive. To try and find a lead on Tyre, John suggests that they ask another Satedan, Solen Sincha, who Teyla and Ronon encountered on the planet Belkan two years ago ("Trinity"). Ready to roll, Sheppard heads for the door. But Mr. Richard Woolsey, Atlantis's new commander, clears his throat ... reminding Sheppard of protocol.


Once Sheppard asks for permission, the team starts off again, but Woolsey stops them. Teyla has not formally petitioned to rejoin the team. Surprised, Sheppard allows her to decide after they talk to Sincha.

The drunken Sincha is still on Belkan. He has with no love for the Wraith-worshiping Tyre, who the Satedans despise and the Wraith have apparently abandoned after he failed to deliver Ronon and the team a year ago. Sincha agrees to pass along any information he might hear on Ronon.

Meanwhile, the captive Ronon regains consciousness inside a dark, dank house on the planet Sarif Sur. A sickly Tyre feels he is repaying Ronon for saving him here many years ago. By handing Ronon over to the Wraith, Tyre is sharing with him the ecstasy he has found at their hand. Ronon feels betrayed when a Wraith and guards appear. The dominant Wraith feeds and reverse-feeds on Ronon multiple times, draining the life out of him only to restore it again. It is by this process that he made Tyre a Wraith-worshiper. Ronon resists with all his might, and the weary and frustrated Wraith decides to take him back to his lab

When Tyre begs to be subjected to the euphoric process, reminding the Wraith that he had promised to reinstate their former arrangement if he handed over Ronon, the Wraith flings him against the wall, having no further need of Tyre.

While waiting for intel, Teyla discusses with Woolsey her dilemma about returning to work. She wishes to continue the fight against the Wraith, but doesn't wish to risk leaving her newborn son without a mother. Woolsey confides that he can sympathize, having had only a Yorkie he loved and lost in a divorce.


After a sleepless night spent searching for a fresh perspective on how to find Ronon, McKay goes to the mess hall where he finds Sheppard. As they go over the details again, Major Lorne comes in with new intel from Sincha. Ronon and Tyre are on Sarif Sur.

Searching the planet, Lorne's team locates the barely alive Tyre. He is taken to the Atlantis infirmary, where Dr. Jennifer Keller finds that reverse-feeding leaves behind a Wraith enzyme which produces a euphoric state. Withdrawal is similar to withdrawal from any addictive substance. Tyre is moved to an isolation room where he is strapped to a bed, writhing and screaming through the slow and painful withdrawal. Sheppard refuses to allow any sedatives which might slow his recovery.

Teyla learns of Tyre's capture, and angrily confronts Sheppard about not including her in the mission. Sheppard tells her she must decide now if she wants to return to his team -- he can't give her the option every time a mission comes up.

Still vacillating, Teyla turns to Kanaan. He repeats what Sheppard told her when she was pregnant: In rejoining the team, she makes the future safe not only for Torren, but all children.

As Tyre detoxes, Ronon screams with a similar agony as he is repeatedly subjected to the reverse-feeding process by the Wraith. While Tyre regains his sanity an his freedom, Ronon slips further away, enthralled by his new Wraith master.


When Tyre is finally clean, he tells Sheppard that he knows where Ronon is. He asks to accompany the rescue team. Woolsey is against this, but Sheppard knows what it is to be desperate to save a buddy. Reluctantly, Woolsey agrees, but he wants Lorne's team to go along. Teyla overhears as she and Torren are going to meet Kanaan in the cafeteria, and she hands off the baby to Woolsey and goes to suit up.

Tyre leads the team to a Wraith laboratory. He shows them where to plant C4 explosives in the power relay chamber, so that the facility can be destroyed with the flick of a switch. When they locate Ronon, he defends the Wraith who has converted him. Ronon, the one man who hated the Wraith more than anyone in the Pegasus Galaxy, has been turned. He has sworn his allegiance to the Wraith, and sworn death to their enemies -- Atlantis.

Tyre grabs Teyla from behind, threatening her life if anyone resists capture. He, too, appears to still be a Wraith-worshiper -- or he is playing both sides. Before they are taken to holding cells, Ronon punches Sheppard in the face.

After Tyre and Ronon convince the Wraith that Sheppard, in particular, is worth more converted than dead, Tyre removes Sheppard from his cell for a first session. When the Wraith reaches out to feed on Sheppard, Tyre draws his sword and cuts off the creature's hand. Sheppard quickly shoots the Wraith and holds off others as Ronon and Tyre fight one another.

Freed earlier by Tyre, who is still on their side, Teyla and McKay free Lorne's team and arrive on the scene. Ronon has gained the upper hand on Tyre and is beating him to a pulp, but Teyla stuns Ronon -- again, he has to be shot three times with a stunner before he finally collapses.


Lorne's team is quickly overwhelmed by Wraith. Threatening to destroy the facility with the hidden explosives, Tyre is able to buy everyone's freedom. The Wraith allows them to leave. When they are all safely in the Jumper, Tyre detonates the C4, obliterating the research lab, killing the Wraith, and sacrificing himself in a final Satedan act of redemption.

Back in the Atlantis infirmary, Ronon endures the same painful detox that Tyre went through. He tries to convince Sheppard that he isn't a threat to them, and screams for Sheppard to either kill him or set him free.

Teyla officially decides to rejoin Sheppard's team. She visits Woolsey's quarters to officially request reinstatement, where she finds that he has changed from his Atlantis uniform into a regular suit and tie -- something "more comfortable." Ready to relax as well, Teyla heads to her quarters where she and Kanaan cuddle Torren.

Ronon's team mates take turns sitting with him until he is finally free of the Wraith enzyme, and their brainwashing. Sheppard tells him of Tyre's honorable death, and leaves Tyre's sword at Ronon's side. Ronon, understanding Tyre now, lays the sword across his chest and grieves.
- S. Fe

[Skydiver]

And, as a mod, i will remind people, this is for DISCUSSION.

It's not the place for crude or snarky one liners, or the place to disparage the opinions of others or to get caught up in a game of oneupsmanship with others.

[Linda06]

Are we ready to move on to Broken Ties? I don't want to rush anyone.

Aye, The seed was kinda boring

BT....
ummmm, kinda like Reunion, wasn't it?

Yeah i'm still angry at the way John treated Teyla here

He should hasve informed her of the mission to try find Ronon, he's her friend too, he's like a brother to her and she had every right to know....Now I understand that he couldn't hang around waiting on her making a decision of whether to join the team again or not and if it was someone she didn't know so well or a stranger then i'd understand why John done and said what he did, but it wasn't a stranger, it was her friend so i'm not at al surprised she was so angry at being left out of the loop like that. I'm sure if the shoe was on the other foot John would have been equally as angry and upset...

Now what did I like, I kinda liked the part where Teyla hands over the baby to Woolsey and his facial expression is funny, then he takes a wrong turn

Ya gotta feel sorry for Tyre, he done the right thing in the end and sacrificed himself to save the others, I liked him

[Skydiver]

i felt this was a rip off of Threshold...but without all the cool back story. In threshold, teal'c was brainwashed by Apophis and the team tries to get through to him, finally removing his symbiote to 'kill' him and help him find the clarity of truth through his near death

but while threshold was a great story to find out about teal'c, this just seemed to be a pale immitation. the who's on whose side gambit was waay over played. I have a hard time seeing ronon break so easily.

it just seemed so cobbled together. like they pulled bits and pieces and tossed them into a bowl to try and tie up loose ends so they could stop dealing with them

[Killdeer]

Broken Ties:

Broken Ties was actually one of the more enjoyable episodes of the season for me overall. However, there still were some significant issues with it.

Things I liked:
- Woolsey - All the way through. Loved the conference room scene, getting locked in (which I mistakenly thought was in The Seed), carrying Torren, and then the scene at the end.
- The Ronon/Teyla scene at the beginning. I've always loved their relationship, and I love the playful banter here.
- Adored the scenes with Teyla & Kanaan and the baby. And I was very hopeful that this would open up some new avenues to explore Teyla as an Athosian and an individual, not just as a member of John's team. Unfortunately it was not to be.
- I thought the scene with John and Rodney in the cafeteria was cute, and the scene in the hall where Rodney and Jennifer decide to conveniently be somewhere else.
- I also liked that they didn't end the episode right after getting Ronon back, that they showed his withdrawal, and his team watching over him. That was nicely done, and the scene at the end especially where John gives his sword back was very powerful.

Things I wasn't so happy with:
- I really found the scenes with Tyre and Ronon and the Wraith to be rather boring. And as Skydiver said, it really seemed like Ronon broke too easily. I had a hard time with that.
- It's not the writers' fault, but I'm still irritated with the network that they didn't let Jason get rid of the wig.
- In the beginning scene we see again the "damsel"ing of Teyla. It may have been the worst in S&R, but that doesn't mean it went away completely. Sorry, but this is a continuing aggravation of mine about what they've done to Teyla. Here's this woman, who is supposed to be a capable warrior in her own right, just simply standing there like a deer in the headlights while Tyre stuns first Ronon, then herself. *headdesk*

Things I am conflicted over:
- John and Teyla's argument. Because I can see both sides.

[Pandora's_Box]

Broken Ties?

Eh, I think too little of Momoa's acting chops to really have enjoyed this episode. I think he overplayed it to the detriment of the role.

As for the story itself. Again, an interesting premise that deserved more attention than it got - Wraith worshipers and why they do it and how they're controlled. But the thing that bothered me the most was Ronon's brainwashing. I'm sorry, I know the theory is that everyone succumbs at some point, but I have the feeling that Ronon would have found a way to kill himself before becoming some Wraith's pet Satedan.

Maybe that's just me.

One more thought - Rodney holding vigil by Ronon's bedside. We're supposed to believe after this that they're not actually friends and proceed to fight over a woman? Not only this, but Ronon's insistence on allowing Rodney to die with dignity (or at least Ronon's definition of it) in The Shrine. After this they're reduced to the cliche of squabbling teenagers over a woman? :: shakes head at TPTB ::

[fumblesmcstupid]

I thought the whole point of Ronon being a runner was the fact he was immune to the draining effect, or was it the enzyme?

So in Lost Boy's Ronon was able to get addicted as well, but if he was made a runner...

I some times wonder if the writers even bother paying attention to the previous episodes. They contradict themselves all the time. I am not trying to bash the writers. I am not.

It's just if they tell us Ronon was made a runner for seven years because of his ability to not be effected , then WHY change it?