I don't think he saves the day too often just by looking at the lists. However, I think a reason this is coming up is because he saved the day in the 1st two episode of S5.
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Sheppard - Does He Save The Day Too Often?
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Originally posted by FallenAngelII View PostJohn is not the only character (though the only one in he main cast) who has the gene naturally. And then Carson came up with the gene therapy and now [b]tons[b] of people have the gene. No, John is not the only one who can effortlessly operate Ancient tech. He's just gets to show it off a lot.
Even Rodney can fly a jumper while wounded now.
John gets to do the heroics... all the time, despite Ronon existing. If there's a fight to be fought, John gets to do the coolest stunts, kill the biggest baddies , etc., etc. (with a few exceptions).
Whenever he's not saving the day, he's contributing to it through heroics. Meanwhile, Teyla and Ronon almost never do this. Rodney does it to a lesser extent.
Because he's pretty much the only one to consistently get such streaks. Rodney, sometimes. But John's the one who consistently get "saving streaks" and who gets to save the day the most... and it's almost exclusively through heroics of a physical kind.
Our opinions differ here. Also, he often gets to do the biggest saves. Yes, Rodney often saves the city, but he's got Radek there helping him. John mostly kills the Big Bads himself, even when aided, the others are just there to help him get to the Big Bad.
And then there's the magnitude of the saves. John has saved "tons of people" more than Rodney, who often just saves "a few".
Only, that's only happened, what, twice? Even in "Search & Rescue", he, while wounded (thus breaking all kinds of military protocol) just had to shoehorn himself in and limp his way through the Cruiser to save Teyla (not that John actually did much at the end of S&R more than limping and trying to set the explosives).
Please, 'limp' has such negative connotations. Heroic staggering if you please.
Originally posted by Linzi View PostOh I agree. I really thought it was dreadful when I heard that TPTB had decided not to pursue Shep's gene. I thought there were a few good stories there! I so wanted there to be one where he lost the use of it! Sorry, it's the whumper in me
I'd agree here too. I want the team! Waaaaaaah! I do like the team feel, and Ronon and Teyla have lots to contribute, I think.
Well, ok, you got me there. He's heroic, physically active AND smart! Coulda been mensa, right? And stop making me swoon! But, yep, I can see your point and you're right here.
Now this is getting ridiculous! Because I'm agreeing here too. I WANT Ronon or/and Teyla to save Sheppard. I really do. Let them save him. Let anyone save him for goodness sakes!
Well the timing of the two episodes was a bit strange here, I'm not disagreeing with you. If The Seed had appeared later on in the season, I don't think Shep saving the day would have been so noticable here?
I like it. I have no idea why. But I like Shep not being good at everything and being outshone by them. I know, I know, it's weird of me
Ok, so you're weird right alongside me then!
Well, I KNOW you're weird!
Actually this is a great post, I know, when aren't your posts great?
You had to bring up heroic staggering, didn't you? But you do have a point!
I'll pay you later.
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Originally posted by jelgate View PostI don't think he saves the day too often just by looking at the lists. However, I think a reason this is coming up is because he saved the day in the 1st two episode of S5.
Peg you had to mention 'limp' and heroic staggering, didn't you?sigpic
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Originally posted by Pegasus_SGA View PostWell.
Tabula Rasa definately wasn't shep, because he was whumped. *tries not to squee until she's in the appropriate thread*
I think McKay contributed, but didn't save the day. Ronon brought the weed back. McKay wouldn't have finished the programme without Teyla telling him what he needed to do and distracting the guards so he could try and finish it. Zelenka freeing people and making a run for it. So group effort there.
Missing was definately Teyla and to some degree Keller. Sure the boys showed up with firepower, but save the day? Nope, just because they came at the last few minutes with firepower doesn't mean they 'saved' the girls.
SoW This was Teyla, she caught the queen off guard, and got in her mind. The boys were trapped in the cell and with the queen about to be wraithified. If Teyla hadn't stepped up, they'd have been wraith fodder. So sorry I disagree with you on this.
Missing....Nabel helped Teyla and Keller escape then they got surrounded by the bolo kai and the boys come in all guns blazing to rescue them..
SOW...Teyla took control of the queen to let the boys escape but then John had to help Teyla by shooting the queen and the boys got off the ship themselves..
Sorry.....Don't take it the wrong way.....I'm just in a very crappy mood and when i'm like this everything bothers me!
Originally posted by miniglik View PostI'll update my list trying to put in other people's opinions. Trying to bold anytime someone saved the day doing something daring or sacrificed themselves/put themselves at risk for the greater good. (And not just to save their own butt.)
Spoiler:Rising -- Sheppard
Hide and Seek -- McKay
38 Minutes -- McKay, Ford
Suspicion -- McKay, Sheppard
Childhood's End -- McKay, Sheppard, and Ford
Poisoning the Well -- No one.
Underground -- No one.
Home -- No one.
The Storm/The Eye -- Sheppard
The Defiant One -- Sheppard, McKay, and Ford
Hot Zone -- Sheppard, McKay
Sanctuary -- No one
Before I Sleep -- Weir
The Brotherhood -- Sheppard, Ford, and Teyla.
Letters from Pegasus -- No one.
The Gift -- Teyla.
The Siege Pt 1 -- Dr. Grodin, Team
The Siege Pt 2 -- SGC, Sheppard
The Siege: Part 3 -- Sheppard, Caldwell, McKay, Teyla.
The Intruder -- Sheppard, McKay
Runner -- Ronon.
Duet -- Zelenka
Condemned -- McKay
Trinity -- Sheppard
Instinct -- Ronon
Conversion -- Ronon, Sheppard
Aurora -- Sheppard, some McKay
The Lost Boys/The Hive -- Sheppard, McKay
Epiphany -- Sheppard, Team (the team tried)
Critical Mass -- Sheppard
Grace Under Pressure -- Sheppard, Zelenka
The Tower -- Sheppard
The Long Goodbye -- mostly Teyla, a little Sheppard, McKay
Coup D'etat -- Carson
Michael -- Sheppard, Ronon?
Inferno -- McKay
Allies -- ?
No Man's Land -- Sheppard, Ronon
Misbegotten -- Team
Irresistible -- Sheppard
Sateda -- Ronon, Team
Progeny -- McKay
The Real World -- Weir, Sheppard
Common Ground -- Sheppard, Todd, team
McKay and Mrs. Miller -- McKay, Jeanie, Rod, Zelenka
Phantoms -- Teyla, McKay
The Return: Parts 1&2 -- Team
Echoes -- Sheppard, McKay
Irresponsible -- Sheppard
Tao of Rodney -- McKay
The Game -- No One
The Ark -- Sheppard
Sunday -- Carson
Submersion -- Sheppard, Teyla
Vengeance -- Team
First Strike -- McKay, Caldwell
Adrift -- Everybody
Lifeline -- Weir, Team
Reunion -- Ronon, Lorne's Team
Doppelganger -- McKay, Sheppard
Travelers -- Larrin, Sheppard
Tabula Rasa -- McKay, Ronon, Teyla
Missing -- Teyla
The Seer -- Carter
Miller's Crossing -- Sheppard, McKay, Todd
This Mortal Coil -- Clone Team
Be All My Sins Remember'd -- Everybody but Ronon and Teyla
Spoils of War -- Team
Quarantine -- Zelenka, Sheppard
Harmony -- Sheppard, McKay
Outcast -- Sheppard, Ronon
Trio -- Carter, Keller, McKay
Midway -- Ronon, T'ealc, Sheppard
The Kindred: Part 1 ?
The Kindred: Part 2 ?
The Last Man -- McKay (not daring, but he devoted his life to the cause), Sheppard, and everybody in the alternate timeline
See that's my point exactly...I see Shep and McKays name pop up alot and Teyla very rarelysigpic
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Originally posted by PG15 View PostIt's just what Shep does. He even said so himself.
To say Shep self-sacrifices too much is the same as saying that McKay snarks too much, Ronon's impulsive too much, and Teyla cares too much, or something. It's their personalities.
*runs and hides*
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Originally posted by PG15 View PostIt's just what Shep does. He even said so himself.
To say Shep self-sacrifices too much is the same as saying that McKay snarks too much, Ronon's impulsive too much, and Teyla cares too much, or something. It's their personalities.
Shame on you PG15 insulting Shep's manhood like that.
*runs and hides*
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Originally posted by Linda06 View PostSee that's my point exactly...I see Shep and McKays name pop up alot and Teyla very rarely
And, no this is not the show I would watch if I wanted to see interesting women save the day. Luckily, I'm not that attached to Teyla, nor have I been to any of the women in this show, or I 'd be as frustrated as you, Linda.My Livejournal
I watched all of the first four seasons of SGA last May. Here are my newbie impressions.
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Originally posted by miniglik View PostYeah, it's definitely Sheppard and McKay's galaxy to save (with a side of Ronon).
And, no this is not the show I would watch if I wanted to see interesting women save the day. Luckily, I'm not that attached to Teyla, nor have I been to any of the women in this show, or I 'd be as frustrated as you, Linda.
It gets very frustrating at times......I've got a really sore head banging it on the desk alotsigpic
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Originally posted by miniglik View PostJohn is aided by the soldiers under him (Ronon, Teyla, and occasionally Lorne).
In other words, his soldiers are flunkies taking down other flunkies.
Originally posted by miniglik View PostRodney is aided by the scientists he works with (Zalenka). Both John and Rodney are usually the one that gets the big heroics in their specialties and they are both frequently aided by their subordinates.
Originally posted by miniglik View PostBoth Sheppard and McKay tend to be the heroes of the stories, IMO.
Originally posted by miniglik View PostRodney's plan is what destroyed ALL of the replicators. All John did was shoot drones. Sure, it was a team effort -- but McKay's input was the only truly invaluable part of the team.
Originally posted by miniglik View PostI keep hearing about how he was breaking all kinds of military protocol, but my husband (who was military) thought it was perfectly acceptable. Granted, the hubby is good with the suspension of disbelief, so it could just be that, but I'm curious where people are getting this.
Originally posted by miniglik View PostAlso, I think Ronon gets just as many physical stunts.
Originally posted by miniglik View PostThe thing he doesn't get is the flyboy heroics. That's the problem with "Atlantis is in danger" eps. Ronon can't fly anything and isn't a scientist, so there's really nothing for him to do most of the time.
Originally posted by Linzi View PostOthers have the gene naturally, sure. I've already discussed that O'Neill had it, so I hardly thought nobody else had it. Carson does/did, Lorne does to name a few.
PJs? It's not like it's hard. They interface with the mind and then you just do it. You just have to learn how to do it properly. Rodney can do it injured and his gene isn't even natural.
And most of the time, John's flying PJs. And others can do it too.
Originally posted by Linzi View PostHowever ALL had to be trained to use it to control Ancient tech, even O'Neill struggled initially, whereas Sheppard didn't. He was a natural. Hence he flies the various ancient toys around etc.
Originally posted by Linzi View PostThere is no evidence anyone else can operate Ancient tech as well as Sheppard can - they can be trained, sure, but are they as naturally able?
Originally posted by Linzi View PostI've never seen any evidence anyone else is as good as Sheppard. If there was, in LifelineSpoiler:Why was it Shep flew the city and nobody else? For example.
But why is it that even with something as "easy" as "point P90 and shoot", it's almost always John who shoots the Big Bad?
Originally posted by Linzi View Post<snip>
Thus my point is, nobody is as good as Shep, hence he's needed for his gene in situations which often involved saving the day... Siege I, Lifeline, Adrift, to name a few.
Originally posted by Linzi View PostI totally disagree with you there. Ronon does all the cool hand to hand combat fights, with Teyla alongside him.
Originally posted by Linzi View PostSheppard isn't much of a fighter at all - except maybe for Doppelganger. He usually just shoots things.
Shooting = Combat
Originally posted by Linzi View PostFor example, Ronon's fighting prowess is seen in Runner, Condemned, Sateda, Reunion, Midway, to name a few. Teyla is also a brilliant hand to hand combat fighter.
Originally posted by Linzi View PostSheppard really isn't that good. He also doesn't get to do all the coolest stunts.
Originally posted by Linzi View PostRonon gets to do some great one's IMO. I'd also disagree about killing the biggest baddies. The biggest one I've seen in the wraith in Sateda, and Beckett dispatched him with a drone.
Originally posted by Linzi View PostI agree Ronon and Teyla don't often get to do the most heroic things per se, certainly in terms of saving the day, and that's a shame.
Originally posted by Linzi View PostBut I'd disagree Rodney doesn't save the day a lot. He does. It's just in a different way.
Originally posted by Linzi View PostHe's always saying how he saves the day in the most impossible situations and how working under that pressure only makes him better. (Inferno is a great example of that).
Originally posted by Linzi View PostI do think Ronon and Teyla are physically heroes too.
Originally posted by Linzi View PostAnd yes, Sheppard's heriocs are usually physical for two reasons. Firstly he's the action, military hero and lead man on the show, secondly, if he were to suddenly be the brainy hero, where would that leave McKay?
And what's up with not at all addressing my point that John's the only person who gets to consistently save the day twice or thrice in a row (episode-wise)? The others get a few here and there with Rodney doing prett well but far from consistent combos.
It's like you're making up what I'm saying in your head.
Originally posted by Linzi View PostWell, yes. I'd agee with the fact that Rodney doesn't take down the bad guys with bullets etc.
Originally posted by Linzi View PostI'm not sure I agree with you there. How often has Rodney come up with the solution to save the city? More than Sheppard has, surely?
Originally posted by Linzi View PostThus surely the fact that he didn't get away with it in the first two episodes of season 5 is a step forward? Shep the hero needs rescuing because he's hurt and can't save himself so he has to have help from somebody else, even if he's already saved the day, or will turn out to in the end.
Originally posted by PG15 View PostIt's just what Shep does. He even said so himself.
To say Shep self-sacrifices too much is the same as saying that McKay snarks too much, Ronon's impulsive too much, and Teyla cares too much, or something. It's their personalities.
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Originally posted by jelgate View PostI know its too eary to tell but if the first two episodes are any indication then the show is getting more well-rounded in terms of balancing the team.sigpic
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FallenAngelII, the size of your post is making me not want to cut and paste, for fear of continuing point-for-point shenanigans, however two things:
1) Who are all these big bads you are talking about Sheppard killing? Kolya, sure. As far as I know the rest of the Big Bads are still alive. Except the replicators, who McKay took out.
2) John's courtmartial comments was, in my opinion, implied to take effect if Carter ordered him not to go. Like "you can order me not to go, but even the threat of court martial wouldn't keep me from it." She did not, however, order him not to go, so the point was mute. His actions, without a direct counter order from his commanding officer, would not be subjected to a court martial.Last edited by miniglik; 24 July 2008, 02:31 PM.My Livejournal
I watched all of the first four seasons of SGA last May. Here are my newbie impressions.
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Originally posted by Linda06 View PostSure...If you call Shep saving the day twice and getting severely injured twice then yes i agreeMy Livejournal
I watched all of the first four seasons of SGA last May. Here are my newbie impressions.
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