Season Five : Complaints and Misgivings

[Reiko]

And on the Sheyla situation. I'm a pessimist *shut up Anuna* so here's hoping I'm wrong and take what I say with that in mind. Sheyla was the original plan. TPTB think they have been giving us hints and little bits of it all along. Some viewers agree with them and are waiting for the big canon moment. The pregnancy/Kanaan bit is typical of how shows do ship. The original pair is torn apart by circumstances blah blah blah until they finally get together probably in the last season. They don't care whether it makes sense, is popular or makes the characters look ridiculous. TPTB thought the kiss in Conversion was hot and that she wanted more. They thought it was obvious in Sunday who the crush was.

Oh, being a pessimist never disappoints I think it was obvious Sheyla was the original planned ship - destined to be together right from that cave scene in Rising. Then came the kiss. That kiss most definately not romantic at all, I empathize not. It was plain creepy and all I got from it was this creepy vibe that marked the beginning of Shep's transformation into a bug. It worked well in the creepy-buggy since. But not in the romantic kind. Not romantic at all.

I love Shep and Teyla as comrades, but seriously. I agree with what ya said, ShadowMaat, about how typical it is to have "lovers torn apart". The Sheyla agenda is even further supported by this, and it will continue no matter how disliked it is or how stupid it makes the characters look. It's getting shoved in our faces, as is ShepLarrin and the various Keller ships popping up left and right.

I didn't get how you meant TPTB was obvious in Sunday who the crush was? I didn't really get how it was hint-hinting at Shep. Of course, anyone could interpret it as their favourite Teyla ship. I still think it was Carson

Okay, I can't believe TPTB actually think this will make a good story.

Spoiler:

Told from Elizabeth Weir’s point of view, we learn that a group of Replicators have begun experimenting with ascension. The lead scientist, Koracen, claims he has found a way to preserve their individual consciousnesses indefinitely as fields of energy. The process involves uploading themselves into subspace where they’ll be free to roam the galaxy, no longer requiring their physical bodies, which are destroyed when the nanite bonds holding them together are severed in the final stage of the process.

This research is based on the description of ascension provided to them by Elizabeth Weir. She is present during the first demonstration of Koracen’s process, witnessing first-hand the blue energy that bolts down upon her fellow Replicator, dissolving the subject’s body. Quite possibly, the Replicators have achieved ascension!

But all experiments such as this have their drawbacks, and this experiment produces a most unexpected result: Those in Atlantis are surprised to find that the ghost of Elizabeth Weir lives on — in a new body that looks just like FRAN (Friendly Replicator ANdroid from “Be All My Sins Remember’d”)!

LAME.

Spoiler:

Ya beat me to it, Suz. It really does make you wonder if she'll be killed simply by Rodney accidentally pressing the "DELETE" button on his keyboard. Oops.

Congrats on your 800 Ice Wolf! I'm getting up there as well

[Killdeer]

I didn't get how you meant TPTB was obvious in Sunday who the crush was? I didn't really get how it was hint-hinting at Shep.

I didn't think it was hinting at Shep either, but Gero said in the episode commentary that it was supposed to be. Am I the only one that thinks that maybe it's a clue that a ship is a bad idea when you have to explain what you're trying to do? For that matter, any story idea is not done well IMO if the writer has to go back later and say OK this is what we were trying to do here, or this is what we meant. I'm not saying that getting behind-the-scenes info is bad, but when the writer has to explain the scene(s) after the fact for them to make sense, it seems to me like there's a problem.

[Ruined_puzzle]

I didn't think it was hinting at Shep either, but Gero said in the episode commentary that it was supposed to be.

Well he wrote it thinking it was Shep but what if another writer had written Sunday. Are they all in the know that Sheyla is the one true ship because I think Binder sometimes forgets. LOL.

I'm also in the camp of John/ABT

[ShadowMaat]

Oh, I knew we were meant to think it was Sheppard, but I stubbornly chose to think it was Beckett instead; made the ep that much more tragic.

[Chrysalis]

Okay, I can't believe TPTB actually think this will make a good story.

Spoilers for S5:

http://stargate-sg1-solutions.com/blog/?p=1213

Spoiler:

Told from Elizabeth Weir’s point of view, we learn that a group of Replicators have begun experimenting with ascension. The lead scientist, Koracen, claims he has found a way to preserve their individual consciousnesses indefinitely as fields of energy. The process involves uploading themselves into subspace where they’ll be free to roam the galaxy, no longer requiring their physical bodies, which are destroyed when the nanite bonds holding them together are severed in the final stage of the process.

This research is based on the description of ascension provided to them by Elizabeth Weir. She is present during the first demonstration of Koracen’s process, witnessing first-hand the blue energy that bolts down upon her fellow Replicator, dissolving the subject’s body. Quite possibly, the Replicators have achieved ascension!

But all experiments such as this have their drawbacks, and this experiment produces a most unexpected result: Those in Atlantis are surprised to find that the ghost of Elizabeth Weir lives on — in a new body that looks just like FRAN (Friendly Replicator ANdroid from “Be All My Sins Remember’d”)!

LAME.

Well, what's the bet that

Spoiler:

Fran sticks around as a replacement Elizabeth. hey presto -- goodbye Elizabeth, hello hot young chick with Elizabeth's brain. I hope Torri doesn't watch this ****. It'd be too painful to watch what they've done to a character she gave everything to for three years

[Ice Wolf]

Well, what's the bet that

Spoiler:

Fran sticks around as a replacement Elizabeth. hey presto -- goodbye Elizabeth, hello hot young chick with Elizabeth's brain. I hope Torri doesn't watch this ****. It'd be too painful to watch what they've done to a character she gave everything to for three years

I'd say they wouldn't be that stupid, but im afraid they would prove me wrong

[Reiko]

I didn't think it was hinting at Shep either, but Gero said in the episode commentary that it was supposed to be. Am I the only one that thinks that maybe it's a clue that a ship is a bad idea when you have to explain what you're trying to do?

Nope you ain't I was shipping Sheyla at the beginning but then it got ridiculous and I would not be duped. About halfway through season one I settled on Teyla/Carson instead. I think it's pretty bad too when the writer has to explain. I know what their intentions were, but how it showed itself on screen was not relevant to me. It could be anybody. Or maybe we're just one of the stubborn few.

Are they all in the know that Sheyla is the one true ship because I think Binder sometimes forgets. LOL.

I love Binder. In addition to the Carson eppies I might tune in for his this year, unless they're Keller-heavy. He's always had a pretty decent track record

Oh, I knew we were meant to think it was Sheppard, but I stubbornly chose to think it was Beckett instead; made the ep that much more tragic.

That was what I was thinking - though it didn't come across to all of us it was meant to be Shep. I always thought it was Carson, but the PTB decided to give my ship the special treatment

I wonder if they thought it was funny that they killed both my favourite character and favourite 'ship.

They would accuse me of being silly to ever have such an idea.

Everything ends tragic.

[Chrysalis]

I'd say they wouldn't be that stupid, but im afraid they would prove me wrong

Oh, they're more than stupid enough. I think we should be more concerned that they may actually get an original thought.. oh, hang on, that'd never happen.

All this does is make the Fran fans happy. And we all know they only like the character for what she looks like. All they ever do is rave about how hot she is.

[Killdeer]

Well, what's the bet that

Spoiler:

Fran sticks around as a replacement Elizabeth. hey presto -- goodbye Elizabeth, hello hot young chick with Elizabeth's brain. I hope Torri doesn't watch this ****. It'd be too painful to watch what they've done to a character she gave everything to for three years

Oh I hope not. I loved FRAN - she was awesome. But I liked her as her own separate character, not a reincarnation of someone else.

[Reiko]

All this does is make the Fran fans happy. And we all know they only like the character for what she looks like. All they ever do is rave about how hot she is.

I never got what the big thing was about Fran ...? Then I guess it is the hotness factor. I mean, Rodney created her and she became the Repliblob magnet (to my understanding; BAMSR was painful to watch.)

Huh.

[Killdeer]

I never got what the big thing was about Fran ...? Then I guess it is the hotness factor.

Well, no, not for me at least. I just liked her.

[Reiko]

Well, no, not for me at least. I just liked her.

Yeah - I can see how you can. I just don't get the craze, if ya know what I mean.

[Pajus]

Well someone has to be the hero's love interest. *pukes*

Hero? Are you trying to make me puke? Again?

I'd rather they kill off the Vega and the other new Dr chick (what's her name again?), along with Keller and Larrin before they kill off poor Lorne.

Poor Lorne. The last hint of development he got was in Sunday

Now if Shep baby gets to take off his shirt, Lorne has to take off his. Fair is fair now!

How about a steamy spiffy scene in the Atlantis locker rooms?

Would like to see Hewletts' rear again
(Hey, it's only fair!)

tape it, hell i'd icon it

And feminists say that men are pigs... They should clean theirr own house first and then criticise us

Okay, I can't believe TPTB actually think this will make a good story.

Spoilers for S5:

http://stargate-sg1-solutions.com/blog/?p=1213

Spoiler:

Told from Elizabeth Weir’s point of view, we learn that a group of Replicators have begun experimenting with ascension. The lead scientist, Koracen, claims he has found a way to preserve their individual consciousnesses indefinitely as fields of energy. The process involves uploading themselves into subspace where they’ll be free to roam the galaxy, no longer requiring their physical bodies, which are destroyed when the nanite bonds holding them together are severed in the final stage of the process.

This research is based on the description of ascension provided to them by Elizabeth Weir. She is present during the first demonstration of Koracen’s process, witnessing first-hand the blue energy that bolts down upon her fellow Replicator, dissolving the subject’s body. Quite possibly, the Replicators have achieved ascension!

But all experiments such as this have their drawbacks, and this experiment produces a most unexpected result: Those in Atlantis are surprised to find that the ghost of Elizabeth Weir lives on — in a new body that looks just like FRAN (Friendly Replicator ANdroid from “Be All My Sins Remember’d”)!

LAME.

I'll be writing How it should have been until the end of time...

Gotta say, Red does make a good argument for the Sheyla thing. On the one hand I loathe the idea of Sheyla, but if we're talking lesser evils, I'll take Sheyla over... what? Lepperd? Sharrin?

Sounds more like STDs than relationships... Not that We come in peace, shoot to kill wouldn't have one by now

[Pitry]

I would like to see a Teyla story. Not a frikkin' arc. Just a somewhat self-contained episode surrounding her as a person. Not as an Athosian or a Wraith Whisperer. Just a story in which she is the main person affected. Kinda like Rodney in Tao of Rodney or Liz in Real World or Carson in PTW. That would satify me at this point. I don't need no freaking arc.

You know stands out even more? Even in the two episodes they dedicated for small developments of all characters, instead of making character-centric episodes - i.e Sunday and Quarantine - Teyla was the only character to not have a story. In Sunday she's the only regular withuiot a storyline, and in Quarantine she's abandoned fast enough as soon as Sheppard leaves the room. It's exactly these moments that help define a character, and how surprising, Teyla comes short in those too.

my point is....we have the current PTB because gekko left after it went to scifi. and, for many, from s7 on, as gekko's presence lessened and lessened until it ended with s8, the appeal of the show lessesned with gekko's involvement. it is, as if, gekko didn't 'play well' with scifi or vice versa

If the show was on showtime and not scifi, i have a feeling that gekko would still be involved and - possibly - we'd have a show that is more in line with how it was during seasons 1-6...when there was less of a blatant 'the show sucks' and more of a 'i hate this aspect' fandom

Here's the problem I have with this view - Gekko isn't some big corporation. It's essentially two people - Richard Dean Anderson and Michael Greenburg. Unless we're assuming the reasons RDA gave for being less involved in Stargate are false, I would say Gekko left not because they didn't like the direction - they were both executive producers and had quite a lot of say on the matter - but because they've been doing it for 8 years and wanted to do other things. I would say that even if Stargate continued in Showtime we'd still have had the same result - Gekko wise, perhaps not direction of the series wise - if it lasted 10 years.

Okay, I can't believe TPTB actually think this will make a good story.

Spoilers for S5:

http://stargate-sg1-solutions.com/blog/?p=1213

Spoiler:

Told from Elizabeth Weir’s point of view, we learn that a group of Replicators have begun experimenting with ascension. The lead scientist, Koracen, claims he has found a way to preserve their individual consciousnesses indefinitely as fields of energy. The process involves uploading themselves into subspace where they’ll be free to roam the galaxy, no longer requiring their physical bodies, which are destroyed when the nanite bonds holding them together are severed in the final stage of the process.

This research is based on the description of ascension provided to them by Elizabeth Weir. She is present during the first demonstration of Koracen’s process, witnessing first-hand the blue energy that bolts down upon her fellow Replicator, dissolving the subject’s body. Quite possibly, the Replicators have achieved ascension!

But all experiments such as this have their drawbacks, and this experiment produces a most unexpected result: Those in Atlantis are surprised to find that the ghost of Elizabeth Weir lives on — in a new body that looks just like FRAN (Friendly Replicator ANdroid from “Be All My Sins Remember’d”)!

LAME.

*Blink blink* eeeeh.

Spoiler:

What's the point in continuing Elizabeth's storyline when she's not there? There's no need whatsoever to continue the Replicators, but even if the writers want to, it doesn't have to be tied up to Weir. They killed her offscreen already once, they can do it again and move on - why recast the character??? No point. People want Weird as TH back, not some young & pretty girl who has none of TH's mannerism and qualities she's put into Weir and with a big neon sticker on her saying "I'm Weir. Really. I am! Look how Weir I am!" It's pretty obviuos to me they're not even going to try and emulate the character mannerisms we got frmo TH, so why even bother?! Why couldn't they just drop the entire story! gah.

[Southern Red]

[FONT="Georgia"]

<snipped for length>

I didn't get how you meant TPTB was obvious in Sunday who the crush was? I didn't really get how it was hint-hinting at Shep. Of course, anyone could interpret it as their favourite Teyla ship. I still think it was Carson

<little more snippage>

You guys were busy while I was tossing and turning sleeping, but I feel like adding my .02. In the commentary for Sunday, Gero says there are 3 scenes that set up the relationship between S/T. First I went WTF? But then I guessed he means the scene with Teyla and her friend, the Ronon/Shep scene talking about women and the infirmary scene with S/T. Otherwise, I'm clueless.

I didn't think it was hinting at Shep either, but Gero said in the episode commentary that it was supposed to be. Am I the only one that thinks that maybe it's a clue that a ship is a bad idea when you have to explain what you're trying to do? For that matter, any story idea is not done well IMO if the writer has to go back later and say OK this is what we were trying to do here, or this is what we meant. I'm not saying that getting behind-the-scenes info is bad, but when the writer has to explain the scene(s) after the fact for them to make sense, it seems to me like there's a problem.

When I saw Sunday, I thought it could be an Athosian because of Teyla's indication that she knew him better than her friend. But then it could also be John. The real question is why Dr. Exploded Chick thought he'd never make the first move.

And this is not the first time they have had to come back and explain themselves. I remember a lot of furious backpedaling over a certain hug. You see they have a plan, and darn it those pesky fans sometimes miss their plan but that's not going to stop them from shoving it down their throats or telling them they are imagining what they see on the screen.

One of my favorite lines ever in a movie is in Duck Soup. It's widely attributed to Groucho but is actually spoken by Chico Marx dressed up as Groucho and is roughly Who are you going to believe, me or your own lying eyes? This IMHO is the philosophy of TPTB and their willing accomplices in fandom.

Well, no, not for me at least. I just liked her.

I liked Fran too. I thought she was sweet and naive and the actress did a really good job. But she's not Elizabeth.