'The Seer' (408) General Discussion

[Jumper_One]

Didn't JF say at a con that they never did find a way to work conflict in?

I don't know about that sry

It's like Sheppard and Carter are the same person lately. Personally I'd like to see her threaten to court martial him. It would make her stronger and him more like the old Sheppard. But I guess they don't want to go there.

well I think you perveive them as being the same person because they think alike (logical since they're both military). Weir on the other hand was a civilian and a diplomat and thus did things in a totally different way. maybe you're just too used to hear Weir and Shep argue about their different opinions.

like I said, I'm hoping for some conflict too but don't think we'll see any, at least not this season (maybe in s5 if AT stays, and I for one really hope she does). and I wouldn't go as far as court martial thread

I was originally concerned about her not wearing an Air Force uniform and seeming to be less military, but my husband explained that they were doing it correctly because her job would come first. She makes decisions now. She doesn't run and gun like she did on SG-1. So I guess I understand her role, but I still want Shep to get feisty with her. This is probably off topic.

a lot of people were talking about her Atlantis style and why she isn't wearing the USAF uniform. I guess she can do so because it's an international expedition and the IOA approved, and there's of course the fact that she's in another galaxy. anyway if your husband believes it to be correct then I guess there's no reason to further discuss it

[bluealien]

Season four and the Seer in particular has brought about a much better balance between the characters. I love when the interaction is divided up between all the characters and not just limited to one pairing. Season three overdid the McKay/Sheppard interaction IMO until I began to get really sick of them hogging all the screentime. I enjoy when things are mixed around a little more and I love all the different combinations. I have always loved the Ronan/Sheppard interaction and we get to see a more of the solider side of Sheppard which I felt was missing at times. Too much meaningless banter between Shep and McKay, so to see a real meaningful conversation between them in the Seer was a joy to watch. This is the kind of interaction I want to see between John and Rodney and I hope we are getting more of this in season four.
Ronan/McKay are another favourite and John and Teyla. They all bring out different aspects of their characters, and it's nice to see that being more evenly explored. The Sheppard/Weir interaction was never interesting to me and it rarely brought out the best in either character. Neither one seemed to be on the same page when it came to what was best for Atlantis and that was what I found so different in the Seer. Sam and John were on the same page, and they brought out the best in one another. They were on the same wavelenght and John respected Sams opinon I feel a lot more than he ever did with Weir. He doubted Weir as she never really had the qualifications or expertise to be giving him any orders in regard to the safety of Atlantis.

He lounged in her office and I got the impression he would probably just do his own thing if he didnt agree with her, and he did at times and all Weir got to do was chastise him like he was a kid. This is not the case with Sam.. Shep is totally different around Sam and I much prefer this. You see him act in a more commanding way as he has a lot of respect for Sam, not only because of her military status but because of her experience with the stargate and dealing with alien worlds. Weir never had any of this and this was lacking in their leadership.
So I don't know whether I would call it chemistry between Shep and Sam but they do have a great connection and I find their leadership much more believable than Sheppard/Weir ever was, and this is what made the Seer so enjoyable. Everyone fitted in well... they all had a purpose. Sam fitted in and was vital in all her scenes.. not just forced in to give her screentime.

So the new leadership in Atlantis added to my enjoyment of the Seer and made all the interaction believable and entertaining. They all seem to fit together and run smoothly as clockwork. The only thing that may upset that balance now is the news of Teyla's pregnancy, and it will be interesting how that interfers with the new dynamic of the team.

[Cautious Explorer]

I wish I could see this great connection between Carter and Sheppard that others seem to be seeing, but for me it just isn't there. Maybe it's the way Carter is written or maybe it's the actress, but I don't get a feeling of confidence or leadership from her, not much emotion at all really. She's just there. And by extension, I think she bleeds all the energy out of any interaction with Sheppard.

I enjoy seeing Sheppard in command mode. But I miss the sarcasm and humor from previous seasons. Hopefully it will come back if there are more team episodes (like Tabula Rasa). Carter is too dull IMO to bring out the best in any of the other characters.

[prion]

I wish I could see this great connection between Carter and Sheppard that others seem to be seeing, but for me it just isn't there. Maybe it's the way Carter is written or maybe it's the actress, but I don't get a feeling of confidence or leadership from her, not much emotion at all really. She's just there. And by extension, I think she bleeds all the energy out of any interaction with Sheppard.

I enjoy seeing Sheppard in command mode. But I miss the sarcasm and humor from previous seasons. Hopefully it will come back if there are more team episodes (like Tabula Rasa). Carter is too dull IMO to bring out the best in any of the other characters.

While I do see a working relationship that seems to work, I don't see any connection or chemistry, per se. I saw it with Weir and Sheppard, as they had several years to build it up, so it makes no sense for it to instantly form when Carter comes, no matter how nice she is. And speaking of nice, well, um, sorry, but nice can be boring. Conflict, emotion is what drives drama, which is why we need some conflict, disagreements over how to handle stuff. While Sheppard wanted to fire the drones to get rid of the two wraith ships, Carter simply ordered him not to and it wasn't so much conflict as an order.

but I was actually more impressed with Carter in "Doppelganger" than in "The Seer."

[Skydiver]

guess it depends on how you see stuff. What i saw was two people working together to solve a problem. One may have outranked the other in rank, yet the other had the upper hand in pertinent experience, so one's strengths compensated for the others' weaknesses, and vice versa

[Mitchell82]

Hiya babe, long time no speak. How's you?

Not far, Yoda not far. Been good you?

I think this ep is like the final pieces of the puzzle and the next ep (After Miller's crossing) everything will all come together over the three-parter. These eps were necessary given the amount of arcs we're getting in S4, and if we suddenly went into the ep without the foreshadowing, people would not doubt say where was the continuity, why is this the only time Weir has been mentioned etc, so it was an integral ep.

Agreed this season is sure shaping up really well. Even though Millers Crossing isn't part of the intregal arc it should be as good as the rest of the season.

Yeah I meant the Asurans... i've got a new job and am brain dead. Oops.

Aww sweatie you know you are only supposed to fry eggs and not your brain right?

I think there have been quite a few eps, including this one where she's stepping out of the shadows, and it's about time.

Well she's always been a good character to me but I agree she is getting lots of good stories.

I wasn't too fussed with Woolsey to start with, only because of too many years as the Doc. I had seperation anxiety. I really enjoyed his interactions in this ep, and look forward to more. I giggled when he said 'Ladies first.'

Agreed and I loved Carters reaction to that not to mention her telling him to shut up.

[Cautious Explorer]

guess it depends on how you see stuff. What i saw was two people working together to solve a problem. One may have outranked the other in rank, yet the other had the upper hand in pertinent experience, so one's strengths compensated for the others' weaknesses, and vice versa

Sure, but what people are working together to solve a problem and how they go about it make all the difference. McKay and Zelenka for instance, are far more entertaining than Carter and anyone.

[Mitchell82]

I have delayed posting my impressions of this episode until I got a chance to view it for the second time. So pardon me if I go over old ground. I just want any PTB lurking to get a variety of opinions. Just a few random thoughts as I was watching. I must say I liked it much much better the second time.

Teyla wants to find her people. She is that close to slapping somebody silly. Maybe she's afraid they will wait until they have a plan that will work like they have with Weir.

I disagree on your view on that. She is desperate but they all have been searching there just isn't any clue to their wherabouts.

John and Sam are working well together. Their military training makes them think alike. However, this leaves little room for drama.

Hmm I agree they work well together and yes it's hard to find conflict between the two but there is still plenty of drama.

Sheppard and his wraith buddy have remarkable chemistry. Love Sheppard's shrug of "I told you all bets would be off."

Keller works well in the doctor role, very caring and gentle. Great bedside manner with grieving loved ones.

Agree with both it works very well and Keller is extremely well done.

Wraith interrogation. Sheppard will never be The Closer, but he fakes nonchalance very well.

Nobody can be Brenda but Shep has the right attitude to do it.

Food supply? How are they going to feed that guy?

They won't. No way would anyone agree to that.

John and Rodney's little talk. Awww...John has forgiven him for breaking Elizabeth. Then John listens to the planning session with his "I hate this" face on and he still wants to knock Woolsey in the head.

They work so well together and they have great chemestry.

Sam is making me respect her by letting John make decisions, but you could put Elizabeth into this episode with few changes. So that takes me back to why remove her? Even her decision making process was the same...conference room, let each person talk, make the call. I'm left still confused. Even the dialogue in her speech to the Wraith sounded like it was left over from Allies right down to the part about the non-networked computer. But she forgot to order it to be firewalled...oopsie.

I disagree. Weir was basically a wallflower Carter actually does things and actually knows what the heck she is doing.

Wraith humor...scary yet somehow endearing. Smart wraith...just scary.

Ronon needs more to do.

Unfortunatly he isn't good with scientific things not in his character.

Sam has the same uncertainty that Elizabeth did at times and they are each smart enough to listen to John. Now who's really running things. Must think about that one.

Agreed but only with lesser intensity by that I mean not as often as to the final part it's Carter but it's good leadership to take input from others.

We really need to find out how that chair affects John. He looks stunned for a moment every time.

To me he's just nervous. I would even be afraid of the thing.

[Skydiver]

Sure, but what people are working together to solve a problem and how they go about it make all the difference. McKay and Zelenka for instance, are far more entertaining than Carter and anyone.

'entertaining' is a relative term.

some absolutely adore evey time rodney rants and flies off the handle, while others hit the mute button.

some live for mckay and shep bickering, others can't stand it

[chocdoc]

Sure, but what people are working together to solve a problem and how they go about it make all the difference. McKay and Zelenka for instance, are far more entertaining than Carter and anyone.

I've really enjoyed Carter with the other characters so far. I liked the tension between Carter and Ronon earlier in the season. I liked Shep and Carter in this episode a lot -- for me, I enjoy the mutual respect they showed one another as well as the mutual trust under this intense and life threatening situation. And I've always liked Mckay and Carter together -- I think AT and DH have a lot of chemistry with each other in general. (Haven't seen Carter and Teyla interact enough yet to have an opinion on that one).

[jelgate]

'entertaining' is a relative term.

some absolutely adore evey time rodney rants and flies off the handle, while others hit the mute button.

some live for mckay and shep bickering, others can't stand it

Well put. What one person finds enjoyable, others find awful. Some people enjoy character episodes,other like fillers, whil others like me enjoy episodes that advance the story arc

[Skydiver]

IMHO, the key to making a more successful show is to make one with lots of types and styles. Basically, make a show like a buffet, have a little of a lot with no focus on any one thing.

thus far we've had adventures and character driven episodes. we've had bottle eps on the city, and ones almost totally off world. we've had focuses on different characters in different weeks.

in this case with Seer, it's like Signs and Portents (I think that's the title of the B5 episode) where there's a bit of foreshadowing. the episode itself,a nd taken by itself, isn't much at the time. but, in hind sight, it's important.

right now i think there's a lot of 'putting hte pieces on the table' going on. (the missing athosians from missing, teyla's pregnancy, the destruction of a city, the reps taking on humans, the wraith wanting assistance) getting the plot points out there to be ready to be used futher down the line.

[Cautious Explorer]

I've really enjoyed Carter with the other characters so far. I liked the tension between Carter and Ronon earlier in the season. I liked Shep and Carter in this episode a lot -- for me, I enjoy the mutual respect they showed one another as well as the mutual trust under this intense and life threatening situation. And I've always liked Mckay and Carter together -- I think AT and DH have a lot of chemistry with each other in general. (Haven't seen Carter and Teyla interact enough yet to have an opinion on that one).

That tension lasted what, about five minutes? She doesn't have any real conflict with anyone, isn't humorous, hasn't displayed any intense emotions, basically wanders around being amiable with everyone (except the obligatory put down of Woolsey) and to me that's incredibly boring.

The writers need to create a character for Carter. Maybe it's because I'm not a fan from SG-1 and don't have a previous liking for the character to build on. I just don't think the writers have presented anything that makes her stand out. Maybe I just can't relate to AT's acting style.

[Southern Red]

While I do see a working relationship that seems to work, I don't see any connection or chemistry, per se. I saw it with Weir and Sheppard, as they had several years to build it up, so it makes no sense for it to instantly form when Carter comes, no matter how nice she is. And speaking of nice, well, um, sorry, but nice can be boring. Conflict, emotion is what drives drama, which is why we need some conflict, disagreements over how to handle stuff. While Sheppard wanted to fire the drones to get rid of the two wraith ships, Carter simply ordered him not to and it wasn't so much conflict as an order.

but I was actually more impressed with Carter in "Doppelganger" than in "The Seer."

While I agree that the chemistry between Weir and Sheppard was without compare, I still think there is chemistry of a sort between Sheppard and Carter. It's just less personal. It's hard to pinpoint his attitude toward her because the military command thing always comes into play. You have to "respect" your commanding officer on the job, but I've known lots of military people who walk a very narrow line doing it. Sheppard knows her history and respects her because of that. He may even be a bit in awe of her vast experience because he has read all those mission reports. After all, she's a bit of a legend in the SGC. I've been a little put off by the seemingly instant rapport between them. I would love to have seen him be a bit more sceptical and resentful of her taking Weir's position. I always saw the Sheppard/Weir dynamic as a co-leadership kind of thing. They didn't need to have strictly defined parameters and the fuzzy chain of command worked very well for them.

That tension lasted what, about five minutes? She doesn't have any real conflict with anyone, isn't humorous, hasn't displayed any intense emotions, basically wanders around being amiable with everyone (except the obligatory put down of Woolsey) and to me that's incredibly boring.

The writers need to create a character for Carter. Maybe it's because I'm not a fan from SG-1 and don't have a previous liking for the character to build on. I just don't think the writers have presented anything that makes her stand out. Maybe I just can't relate to AT's acting style.

Very well said. The welcoming Carter lovefest is a bit unrealistic. I always liked her character on SG-1 and even though I'm a huge Weir fan I was not one of those vowing to never watch again when Sam showed up. I just expected her to be more like she was on SG-1 not a vanilla copy. Her blandness seems to temper Sheppard also to the point that he even seems less than himself. I'm still adjusting to the new incarnation of the show and thusly haven't quite decided what I think about all this.

[RealmOfX]

While I agree that the chemistry between Weir and Sheppard was without compare, I still think there is chemistry of a sort between Sheppard and Carter. It's just less personal. It's hard to pinpoint his attitude toward her because the military command thing always comes into play. You have to "respect" your commanding officer on the job, but I've known lots of military people who walk a very narrow line doing it. Sheppard knows her history and respects her because of that. He may even be a bit in awe of her vast experience because he has read all those mission reports. After all, she's a bit of a legend in the SGC. I've been a little put off by the seemingly instant rapport between them. I would love to have seen him be a bit more sceptical and resentful of her taking Weir's position. I always saw the Sheppard/Weir dynamic as a co-leadership kind of thing. They didn't need to have strictly defined parameters and the fuzzy chain of command worked very well for them.



Very well said. The welcoming Carter lovefest is a bit unrealistic. I always liked her character on SG-1 and even though I'm a huge Weir fan I was not one of those vowing to never watch again when Sam showed up. I just expected her to be more like she was on SG-1 not a vanilla copy. Her blandness seems to temper Sheppard also to the point that he even seems less than himself. I'm still adjusting to the new incarnation of the show and thusly haven't quite decided what I think about all this.

Realisticly, why would Shep ever be "be a bit more sceptical and resentful of her taking Weir's position"? Do you think he is unprofessional and petty? I saw mutual respect between Sam and Shep in this episode (and others) and I'd be extremely disappointed for Shep to act childishly by being sceptical and resentful. I expect him to be sad and worried about Elizabeth being missing but why would any professional military officer resent another capable officer being appointed to a command that they (Shep) don't want and wouldn't realistically be in the running for? Or is he supposed to childishly resent anyone who is not Elizabeth in the position? Why would he be sceptical about someone who has a vast amount of offworld experience and is a well respected officer at the SGC?



Could you please explain what you are terming the welcoming Carter lovefest because I'm not sure to what you are referring. What I have seen is a bunch of professional people getting on with the job despite the personnel losses.

I liked what I saw between Shep and Sam in this episode and I hope it continues.