'The Last Man' (420) General Discussion

[Mitchell82]

We're nitpicking now.....they probably did look at the crystal but didn't show it us b/c how else would he *know* where to tell them to dial the gate to search for Teyla??

If they showed us every little thing we are picking on the ep would have run about an hour and a half...too much time for such little things. I'll admit there are times things are left out but in the case of this ep last night....it wasn't the case. You have to let yourself infer a certain amount of things and the things we are nitpicking are those things which can be inferred.

Exactly.

[Chailyn]

This wasn't a bad episode, but it made for a poor season finale. No suspense or sense of urgency, imo. Why should I care about an AU future when I know after the first fifteen minutes of hearing McKay's "plan" that it's all leading to a reset? I could care less. None of it was real. In fact, nothing actually happened in this episode. We could have left off at the Kindred II, and we'd be in basically the same boat going into season 5.

I liked Rodney and the way he dedicated his life to changing the past. I laughed when he said he was teaching at a community college. I'm surprised Rodney put up with it!

I also felt Keller was quite good in this episode. While I'm still uncertain about her, if I see more of this Keller, I will probably enjoy her in Season 5. She wasn't nearly as immature. If fact, I found her very likeable.

Michael rocked it again, although that Wraith head was so cheesy.

Loved Lorne's promotion.

The sandy Atlantis looked cool.

The ending was completely unsatisfying. It was rushed, and again I couldn't care. Teyla has done so little this season for me that I really didn't care what state they found her in. I'm beginning to believe she needs to be written out, although I hope season 5 changes my perception. The only thing she provided this season was her womb, which I find offensive and annoying for a fifth season character. Maybe this is why Keller seems to be getting the majority of the female development. The writers know there is a problem with Teyla and struggle writing her.

And the only thing scarier than that decapitated Wraith was Woolsey in his "uniform". Egads! I hope they give him something better in Season 5 to wear otherwise it's going to be a long season.

I also found the CG lacking, especially the building collapse.

Overall, not a bad ep, but the worst season finale to date, imo.

[Snord]

I thought the sand dune Atlantis was kind of eerie. I honestly didn't expect the PTB to show the assault on Teyla's supposed location. I thought Sheppard would convince Sam of going after her then Sam saying some dumb line authorizing them to go after her and that would be the end of the episode. When the bomb started up I was thinking 'way to go dumbass' because I hoped McKay would be smarter somehow. After the initial explosion my jaw dropped and I looked very confused. Once the building COMPLETELY collapsed I burst into laughter. I have NEVER laughed at the end of a finale like that before or ever for that matter. The PTB were right, there was a tear in my eye, but it was due to seeing everyone: die, be saved, being rained upon $2 cheap styrofoam chunks of cheesy-sci-fi-goodness, and appear to be crushed. That was a hoot.

I don't think that this is going to kill off anyone in the show for some reason. That would stink if it did. This show kills off too many people. Killing Carson Mark I made pissed because he had just finished becoming a regular in the show THAT SEASON. Of course we never saw Weir Mark I die, but hearing a replicators explaining it to me didn't make me feel better. I rolled my eyes when I saw what seemed to be Darth Repli-Weir at the end of 'BE ALL MY SINS REMEMBER'D'. Seeing Carson Mark II being explained as a clone urked me greatly, I remember reading that he was NOT a clone, Daniel Jacksonized (ascend, unascend), or an alternate time line version, but something else.

So after season 5 I almost expect to see the spinoff of Atlantis called 'The Magical Adventure's of Michael, Mr. Woolsey, and Lt.Ford' . It sounds risky, I know, but we should give undead Charles Kawalsky a chance at leading this crazy crew in Atlantis' remains (5 puddle jumpers strapped around the center spire of Atlantis with ANCIENT ducktape around the holes). It will probably last two and a half seasons. The movie will be great because it will have the crew teaming up with the Nox and Athosians to take the biggest foe in Stargate history: the distant grand-cousin of Aphophis who ascended and unascended 15 times for fun, then took the host of Todd the Wraith who is secretly making a replicator ANOTHER replicator army and has Darth Repli-Weir has his first prime. I see EPIC written all over that movie.

[cabouse18]

This wasn't a bad episode, but it made for a poor season finale. No suspense or sense of urgency, imo. Why should I care about an AU future when I know after the first fifteen minutes of hearing McKay's "plan" that it's all leading to a reset? I could care less. None of it was real. In fact, nothing actually happened in this episode. We could have left off at the Kindred II, and we'd be in basically the same boat going into season 5.

I liked Rodney and the way he dedicated his life to changing the past. I laughed when he said he was teaching at a community college. I'm surprised Rodney put up with it!

I also felt Keller was quite good in this episode. While I'm still uncertain about her, if I see more of this Keller, I will probably enjoy her in Season 5. She wasn't nearly as immature. If fact, I found her very likeable.

Michael rocked it again, although that Wraith head was so cheesy.

Loved Lorne's promotion.

The sandy Atlantis looked cool.

The ending was completely unsatisfying. It was rushed, and again I couldn't care. Teyla has done so little this season for me that I really didn't care what state they found her in. I'm beginning to believe she needs to be written out, although I hope season 5 changes my perception. The only thing she provided this season was her womb, which I find offensive and annoying for a fifth season character. Maybe this is why Keller seems to be getting the majority of the female development. The writers know there is a problem with Teyla and struggle writing her.

And the only thing scarier than that decapitated Wraith was Woolsey in his "uniform". Egads! I hope they give him something better in Season 5 to wear otherwise it's going to be a long season.

I also found the CG lacking, especially the building collapse.

Overall, not a bad ep, but the worst season finale to date, imo.

What one would you say was better?

it wasn't that the whole ep was a way to reset things as you say...it was an ep to show us the viewer, what could happen to our heroes if they fail and if they think the slightess inoculous thing couldn't tip their fate.... this ep proves that it could.

[Admiral Mappalazarou]

Now that's how you end a season !!!!!!!!

No. It isn't. And I'll explain why.

For forty minutes, we had a good strong episode with nice dialogue, good story arcs and excellent character development (except for the reason for Sam's death which was stupid as wraith cruisers aren't anywhere near as powerful as earth vessels since we managed to hold up a fight against the Ori, for fraks sake).

Everything was going surprisingly well apart from a few minor issues that should have been dealt with (why did Shepherd not enquire as to clone-Beckett's whereabouts? Why did the Atlantis gateworld not have a moment where it showed present-day Atlantis gateworld as was showed in SG-1's 1969 when the team were sent back in time right at the beginning of the episode?). The last ten minutes were appalling;

1) Why did no one believe Shepherd when they have all been through similar experiences? (Sam was sent back through time at least twice in SG-1)

2) Why, out of all of the cliff-hangers they could have and should have gone for - why did they decide that it would be all dramatic to have a building fall on the team when we know for a FACT that the main cast survive because their character shields are too strong? (This point also covers the scene where John goes through the sandstorm, for the whole thing was seemingly pointless as John was bound to survive...and with his hairstyle intact).

Its obvious that they were either beamed out just before the building collasped or they'll reawaken in Michael's evil lab (with the same set reused from last weeks almost awful episode).

But I actually liked this episode so here are the good points;

- Woosley was great, as almost everything he said I agreed with. You can't save everyone, so lets focus on who you can save.
- Ronon and Todd teaming up was ace. Thier whole possible future scenario was perfect.
- The CGI, the imagery used for the Atlantis desert scenes were spectacular.
- The guest stars (Todd, Woosley, McKay's sister, etc...)
- Michael severing off a wraith queens head to show his rebellious nature towards them and the humans he so despises.
- The acting of Old McKay (showing that once again Hewlett is the best actor on the show)
- Hinting at something terrible happening in the Milky Way (a possible future series reference? Stargate Universe, anyone?)

[Vapor]

Why?

We know he had to walk through a sand storm and how dangerous that is and where he was going to....I much preferred the flashback we got instead of seeing him struggle through blowing sand. The ep ran over anyway, so if it was shot (which I doubt it was) they probably had to cut it out.

This is why it felt more contrived than normal. Because I didn't see him do anything except walk outside and get dirty.

I've already made my feelings known about the flashbacks, so yeah, I have to disagree. It was like we were just reciting off of the laundry list of deaths that took place over time.

The McKay/Keller flashback was probably the only one I really liked completely, because it felt like it was about more than just "let's show cool heroic deaths."

But anyway, I just felt like we flew by that whole piece of plot, about how they get Shep to survive and get back.

[MarshAngel]

I wasn't terribly thrilled about some aspects of the episode. This is one of the few episodes of this season, which has been an enormous improvement on seasons 2 and 3, that I was really disappointed in. This show has always been great at beginning and ending seasons so I was surprised that they decided, again, to take and idea from SG-1. "1969" was a really great story but the greatest part about it was the idea of "chance", that something like that would likely only happen once in a million years by accident and perhaps more because a DHD has the ability to prevent it. Because of that fact, this seemed remarkably contrived. John just happens to be thrown forward in time at a pivotal time, when a piece of equipment failed to do successfully what it has been doing for several million years, and he just happens to be from the same planet as the last people this happened to. I think it's a bit of a reach.

Other aspects of the story were good but it seems too much of the show relies heavily on the heroism of Sheppard and here we have it again where, without his presence, all things fall apart. Surely in the entire Air Force there is more than one guy who can do it right.

Apart from the concept though, the story itself was entertaining. Can't say the ending was great. They spent so much time on the time traveling, and flashbacks, there just wasn't enough time to create the buildup to make the ending suspenseful. I think another half hour would have been a dramatic improvement.

[Mitchell82]

No. It isn't. And I'll explain why.

For forty minutes, we had a good strong episode with nice dialogue, good story arcs and excellent character development (except for the reason for Sam's death which was stupid as wraith cruisers aren't anywhere near as powerful as earth vessels since we managed to hold up a fight against the Ori, for fraks sake).

It has absolutely nothing to do with who's ship is more powerful. The Wraith still had more numbers and eventually having too many ships at once eventually is too much. Her death was a very honorable one.

Everything was going surprisingly well apart from a few minor issues that should have been dealt with (why did Shepherd not enquire as to clone-Beckett's whereabouts?

Good question. Answer: not enough time.

Why did the Atlantis gateworld not have a moment where it showed present-day Atlantis gateworld as was showed in SG-1's 1969 when the team were sent back in time right at the beginning of the episode?). The last ten minutes were appalling;

For one it was not necessary. The last 10 minutes appalling? Not from my pov.

'

1) Why did no one believe Shepherd when they have all been through similar experiences? (Sam was sent back through time at least twice in SG-1)

Because they have seen so much and his story was a bit weird so they needed to make sure it was him. It's called being cautious and protocol.

2) Why, out of all of the cliff-hangers they could have and should have gone for - why did they decide that it would be all dramatic to have a building fall on the team when we know for a FACT that the main cast survive because their character shields are too strong? (This point also covers the scene where John goes through the sandstorm, for the whole thing was seemingly pointless as John was bound to survive...and with his hairstyle intact).

Uh for dramatic effect and it certaintly was very dramatic and jaw dropping as I never would have expected that.

Its obvious that they were either beamed out just before the building collasped or they'll reawaken in Michael's evil lab (with the same set reused from last weeks almost awful episode).

Was a ship in orbit cause I'm pretty sure they used the gate.

[Integrabyte]

Exactly.

Indeed . Holo-doc tells John that they found Teyla dead in a remote facility and that they gathered tons of information. Assuming they had a look at the crystal and saw all that info about Michael, research, gate addresses, where to find Teyla,and the device they found in that facility how on earth were they so careless and initiated the self destruct? I'll tell you why, they did not even bother to take a look at that info and they acted first suffered the consequences later.

[Pegasus_SGA]

Fast paced?!? Are you kidding me?

My cat was even more fast paced than this, and he was asleep.

Maybe fast paced was the wrong terminology. I should have said, that there was a lot of information in the eppy, and where things were going and the team was all heading off in different directions. I wanted to see why. I mean, I know why, but I wanted to see them struggling to make those decisions, to see the impact that Shep, Sam and Teyla's death. And why Ronon felt he had to leave. I wanted to see him struggling with the chain of command and getting pissy with Woolsey. i know we had time restraints. But for me to get me emotionally attached to an ep, I need to feel the hurt and the anguish and why people decide to leave their family and go off their own. I need to see and feel the luff of the team, and yes we got it to a degree in Shep and Rodney, but not the overall impact if that makes sense.

I want someone to rip my heart out.... although obviously not literally.

no, I mean that a single person (Michael) was able to bring down a race like the Wraith with a bunch of hybrid drones and a drug, and all that in a single year
you're talking about a race who has bio engineered space ships and they can't find an antidote for a simple drug?

I think, and don't quote me on this, but Michael made a bigger impact than they anticipated and he organised his armies very effectively and as the wraith could care less about him, they underestimated him and what he could do.

Peg and her novels

How is that different from your previous reviews.

Well I never squeed, so that's different.

Your just mad that you didn't see the ultimate whump with Sheppard being dead
I agree with that statement. Ronon would be that if I am going die, I should take a bunch of people with me.

No babe, that's going to be in Search and Rescue. I think it just irked me that Shep had been classed as KIA and yet we didn't see any reactions from the team, not even a flashback. And there was no outpouring of emotions with Teyla, Sam or Ronon, it just didn't feel as if they were 'that bothered' and it did bother me, because I like to see people's reactions to events. I want to see why they choose to go on a different path and how they got there. Alas I know that there are time restraints, but for me it's a big part of an eppy.

I did enjoy Ronon's smirk at the end, and both men died on equal footing. I think that's the first time we've ever seen Todd fighting isn't it?

I'm sorry, I don't see it that way. The autrocities he committed in Kindred match to what he was doing The Last Man. He said he planned to wipe out the Wraith and that exactly what he did. I don't see how it was a big leap

Michael went from I won't hurt you (to Teyla) to killing her, so for me it was a bit of a leap. Yeah we knew what his plans were for the wraith, but I just see it as Teyla putting up more of a struggle...

We will convince you yet

I don't bow to pressure, you should know that by now, hon.

Spoiler:

*Breaks into Peg's house and steals her whip*

If people were being killed left and right and you could do nothing about it, I know I wouldn't.

Good job I have a spare isn't it?

I couldn't leave to be honest. I'd be determined to stay and make a damn nuisance of myself I just couldn't leave the people I worked with without support. I'd be a right pain in the ass until someone listened, or until they sent me home. Either way I wouldn't leave of my own volition.

We know

I can't help myself.

Thats boring to me as you don't get see Sheppard's reaction. Don't tell me you didn't like seeing Sheppard walk through the sandstorm.

Do worry I didn't cry either, but then again it takes a lot for me to cry.

Oh no I loved that bit, and the sets, the colours, the score, and the atmosphere in the beginning and seeing Atlantis under all that sand. Absolutely loved it. It was just the feelings from the team, their reactions that I missed, and I love the caring parts, and we didn't get much of that.

I can''t wait so I can make fun and torture Peg.

no change there then?

Runs in ....shouts "Boooooo it sucked"....runs out

*cough*



Watch that nose on the way out babe!

I had hopes that this epiosde could actually be interesting. It started out well, but then bogged down with Carter and Keller's portions. In the end, Sheppard didn't get to do much except listen to hologram Rodney recite his story.

It felt very detached to me. Teyla's dead and no one reacts --it's ancient history by now to hologram Rodney and we don't get to see anyone else's reaction. How did Atlantis react to Sheppard being lost in the future? We didn't get to see that. Was it a difficult decision for Ronon to leave Atlantis? We didn't get to see that either. It was basically a story told as: this happened, and then this happened, and then, and then, and then....

I prefer a story that revolves around the characters and how they react emotionally to events. There wasn't much here.

The entire focal point of this season-ender was Rodney McKay -- how his life changed, personally and professionally. Too much McKay for me.

I didn't care what happened to Carter or Keller. They're new to Atlantis. I'd rather see how the remaining members of the original expeditiion were affected. We get Carter and Rodney working on her ship with a whole second of Zelenka's hand. A lengthy look at Keller's failure to defeat the Hoffan disease and her resulting love affair and death. I just didn't care.

No explanation was given as to how Teyla's child provided the stepping stone for Michael's mutant army to conquer the Pegasus Galaxy. What happened to the child? Without feeding on life force, what makes the mutants more powerful than the Wraith?

It didn't hold my interest. Another badly written episode in a badly written season IMO.




In my case Briangate, you're completely off base. All of my favorite characters are still there -- sort of. I should say, the characters and the actors who portray them are still part of the show. But I think they're written differently this season. The dialog is often stilted IMO. They seem to behave out of character and fluxuate from one week to the next. I'm finding the plots uncreative and unexciting.

It's not so much the lack of certain characters for me, as my frustration with the dull, shallow characters who replaced them. If Weir or Carson had been replaced with vibrant, exciting characters who interacted well with the existing Atlantis crew, then I would probably be enjoying season four as much as I enjoyed previous seasons.

That's pretty much my feelings only you said it better than me, we were kind of left with more questions than answers, and I just keep wanting to know why things happened as they did. Maye we'll see it in Search and Rescue, I don't know know, but I felt frustrated in places to.

Well we don't know that the cause of the sun turning into a red giant was due to natural causes. Something could have artificially affected it.

Good point!!!

[Chailyn]

What one would you say was better?

I still like Season 1's finale the best with the way the whole sky was lit up, but I also enjoyed Season 3's. Both those seasons had me chomping at the bit to watch the next season. Even though I knew Atlantis would survive, of course, there was a particular artistry in the storytelling I liked.

it wasn't that the whole ep was a way to reset things as you say...it was an ep to show us the viewer, what could happen to our heroes if they fail and if they think the slightess inoculous thing couldn't tip their fate.... this ep proves that it could.

Yeah, I get what you're saying, but I really don't need to be shown the possible deaths of characters. Everyone dies eventually and because it's an AU with the whole plot based around changing the past, it's basically a non-issue. For instance, I could be killed by old age, cancer, a car accident, etc. Showing me that someone could possibly die is just common sense, imo. The only reason to kill off the majority of a cast in an AU is to provoke an emotional reaction from the audience, imo. It's a "safe" way of writing something dramatic while knowing that it won't have consequences in the future. Once our heroes dig themselves out of that building collaspe, they'll be searching for Teyla again just like they were in the Kindred.

Again, I didn't think it was a bad episode exactly, but I found it disappointing for a season finale.

[Lythisrose]

1) Why did no one believe Shepherd when they have all been through similar experiences? (Sam was sent back through time at least twice in SG-1)

Perhaps it was because the last person who returned unexpectedly turned out to be a clone made by Michael.

[jelgate]

I want someone to rip my heart out.... although obviously not literally.

Allow me

I think, and don't quote me on this, but Michael made a bigger impact than they anticipated and he organised his armies very effectively and as the wraith could care less about him, they underestimated him and what he could do.

Well I never squeed, so that's different.

LIES!!!!!!

No babe, that's going to be in Search and Rescue. I think it just irked me that Shep had been classed as KIA and yet we didn't see any reactions from the team, not even a flashback. And there was no outpouring of emotions with Teyla, Sam or Ronon, it just didn't feel as if they were 'that bothered' and it did bother me, because I like to see people's reactions to events. I want to see why they choose to go on a different path and how they got there. Alas I know that there are time restraints, but for me it's a big part of an eppy.

I think you answered your own question. Their were time restraints. Knowing the characters as we do, I think its obvious what the characters reactions would be.

I did enjoy Ronon's smirk at the end, and both men died on equal footing. I think that's the first time we've ever seen Todd fighting isn't it?

Common Ground

Michael went from I won't hurt you (to Teyla) to killing her, so for me it was a bit of a leap. Yeah we knew what his plans were for the wraith, but I just see it as Teyla putting up more of a struggle...

I was under the impression that Teyla was kept alive because Micheal wanted her baby. My knowledge on the subject is limitied but aren't women weaken after they give birth.

I don't bow to pressure, you should know that by now, hon.

I have failied

I couldn't leave to be honest. I'd be determined to stay and make a damn nuisance of myself I just couldn't leave the people I worked with without support. I'd be a right pain in the ass until someone listened, or until they sent me home. Either way I wouldn't leave of my own volition.

Even if your adminstration was making cutbacks that made you see your patients die when their deaths could be avoided

I can't help myself.

I can be shallow when certain characters are involved[/QUOTE]

no change there then?

*cough*



Watch that nose on the way out babe!

If Intergrabyte is the wooden puppet, who is the cricket?

That's pretty much my feelings only you said it better than me, we were kind of left with more questions than answers, and I just keep wanting to know why things happened as they did. Maye we'll see it in Search and Rescue, I don't know know, but I felt frustrated in places to.

*injects Peg with a sediative*

[Cautious Explorer]

This episode just seems to bring home something that's been nagging at me all season. I get the feeling the writers come up with a broad concept, throw in a few ideas like, "Wouldn't it be neat if Carter went down with her ship?" or "Let's have Keller give McKay a great big passionate kiss," and "Michael should take over the galaxy with his mutant army." But it never gets fleshed out into a cohesive story.

There's no passion in the storytelling. I don't feel like there's any point they want to make or a particular destination they're taking the characters towards. IMO it's a hodgepodge of "what ifs'" and "wouldn't it be neat tos". It would be understandable for a writer to get bored and want to work on other projects after years and years of the same thing. If that's the case, then please move aside and let someone with a fresh enthusiasm take over.

It just seems to me the scripts are incomplete.

[ziga1980]

i hope no one mentioned this earlier but anyway here it goes.

i don't think that rodney was stupid enough to just send sheppard back in time. of course he would have predicted that people would question sheppards story etc. and he'd tell him something only mckay knows so shep would "identify" himself and his story.

that aside. a bigger thing gets on my nerves. rodney wouldn't just change the time line because for all he knows it could make it even worse. based on the intel gathered in his time he could make a few possible scenarios of the 'changed history' and than tell sheppard what they must do to change it the right way. look now they destroyed one facility and killed everyone. it doesn't change the fact that teyla has her baby, and Micheal conquers the galaxy. this way they just made it worse. much worse (come on people no way they could have survived those blasts).

what i'm trying to say is that what we saw was just one of possible scenarios or simulations mckay showed to sheppard. next season we'll just see sheppard again coming through the gate and than they really fix the timeline.