'The Kindred, Part 2' (419) General Discussion

[Clem]

Glad to have Carson back, even if we have to settle for a POW backup copy. I just hope he doesn't go blonde and start calling himself Ben Reilly. Make way for Carson Kaine, Carsoncide, etc.

I've always found it strange how SGA deals with character evolution. It's like theres an unwritten law that states if your character changes too much, you shall be demoted to guest star and disappear for half a season at a time.

Ford goes Supersoldier? Bumped from the cast and disappears.
Weir goes Replicator? Bumped from the cast and disappears.
Beckett goes clone? Bumped from the cast and indefinitely held in stasis.

They introduce these interesting new dynamics, only to completely ignore them and focus on the unaffected castmembers who've played the same damn traits for 4 years.

Do we honestly have to revert to status quo all the time? It'd be fascinating to have RepliWeir, SuperFord and CarClone on the team wouldn't it?

[sweetsamurai]

I was expecting, other than the real carson, the banter and chemistry between Carson and Mckay. WHile I understand it is a poignant time for Mckay and even Carson, and they need to do their 'I love you and miss you' stuff - I really wanted the old team back and having their wonderful and funny bouncing off each other with hilarious dialogue etc..

So dissapointed with his 'return' and this episode. I pleaded a year ago for the writers not to turn Teyla's baby into the next generation for the bad guys....what has happened to Stargate Atlantis?

I've been watching all the season 1 to season 3 - and those series were exceptional. I don't understand. And so many people seem to be happy with this mediocre average unoriginal writing that has been given in season four (though there are three or four episodes that were excellent) and I fear the writers will think they have done a brillaint job and continue with this mundane level of excitment in their ideas and episodes.

I'm also a little confused. I thought Carson was going to be in two episodes of Season 4? Or does one line at the end of the Kindred Part 1 count as one? If that is correct - then that really sucks like dating a wraith.

[Klenotka]

I don´t know where to start but this was...terrible. I am so damn disappointed and angry right now!

First of all - tptb can´t keep their mounth shut so they spoil everything. And what isn´t spoiled, it´s not simply true. Our Carson...yeah, sure.

There are very few things I liked - Rodney, Carson and, suprisingly Keller.
Rodney was really affected by Beckett´s return and his scene with Carson, telling him about his death and about loss of Elizabeth, it was very well done. I think the huge share in this have David with Paul who were both great in whole episode.
What more did I like? Oh, yeah, Halling and his return from plot hole.
I also liked Sheppard and Ronon. They stood behind Rodney´s decision about Carson and Shep seemed to understand Rodney and just...was there, which was cool.

Then, that´s it. No more positives.

Negatives - can I say whole episode? But it would be too rude so let´s start with...Teyla.
I understand that Rachel really isn´t an oscar actress, but add to that terrible lines and stupid plot holes and there is one of the worst characters ever. Her lines like "What is happening" "Don´t do this" and so on, it was just...so awful. Michael, who I like, seemed dull in this episode. To give him a purpose just to take Teyla´s baby and make him some hybrid or whatever is a cliché, and what´s worse, not too well written cliché.

Carter - She has no dynamics, no chemistry with anyone, not even Rodney. I started to tolerate her but let´s just say she isn´t Elizabeth. No way she could be compared to Elizabeth. Elizabeth had chemistry with everyone and was a chain for them. Carter just asks Sheppard/anyone about his opinion and then agrees. That´s all. Her conversations with Sheppard are talks between two people who look like they really just work together, nothing more.
The most ridiculous scene was when Carson called her Samantha and asked HER about taking his letter to his mother! Give me a break! Rodney should have been the one to do it. He told his mother about Carson´s death. And Carter, technically, isn´t even Carson´s commander.
I think the big problem is that they deal with things that happened long time before Carter came and so all those things, and people just don´t affect her. Exclude her because how could she care about a man, clone, who she barely knows. It´s not Carter´s attitude to be hostile, I know that. But this seemed unnatural.

Just keep McKay, Sheppard and Ronon, get rid of the rest and, don´t try to put so called story-arc into three episodes of twenty

I looked forward to this double-episode. And now I am angry, disappointed and I want to kick something or someone.

I just hope that season finale will be better so I can say that from S4 were 3 episodes good instead of 2.

[ShadowMaat]

Well, the fact that they aired separately and are called part 1 and part 2 kinda says that they're two episodes. It's a bit of a cheat, but it's also nothing new.

I've always found it strange how SGA deals with character evolution. It's like theres an unwritten law that states if your character changes too much, you shall be demoted to guest star and disappear for half a season at a time.

Ford goes Supersoldier? Bumped from the cast and disappears.
Weir goes Replicator? Bumped from the cast and disappears.
Beckett goes clone? Bumped from the cast and indefinitely held in stasis.

They introduce these interesting new dynamics, only to completely ignore them and focus on the unaffected castmembers who've played the same damn traits for 4 years.

Amen to that, Clem. Although I think in Carson's case we'll be seeing him again, maybe even a lot more of him. Although I'd LMAO if they only did this to kill him off twice.

I'd be more worried about Keller right now. She's getting bumped up to regular and the last time that happened, the character got killed off. *cough*Carson*cough* Granted, there seems to be a lot of Keller hate and many would probably welcome her death, but I think it'd be a bit of a rip-off, myself, especially if they only did it as an excuse to bring Carson back full time. I guess we'll have to wait and see, but right now I'm getting a strong Jonas vibe off her.

EDIT:

The most ridiculous scene was when Carson called her Samantha and asked HER about taking his letter to his mother! Give me a break! Rodney should have been the one to do it. He told his mother about Carson´s death.

Yeah, you're right. He should have asked Rodney or Shep. Or even Ronon. That would have been a funny- and touching- scene. Entrusting this big scary-ass warrior dude to deliver a message to his mum, probably with some comment about how "I think she'll like you" or maybe "Just try not to scare her too much. She's getting old, you know." LOL! And Ronon could look all big and awkward, promising to deliver it to her hands himself. hehe

[jelgate]

Sorry but my Theory of Knowledge teacher is to blame . I had 3 years of critical thinking and it seems I ended up contaminated. One of the reasons I criticise a lot . Or it could be because I have a big mouth . ...you don't have to answer that

A little from column A, a little from column B.

[kymeric]

Hollin! Carson!

Good ep, the ending make me sad. Carson being told how he die and then how wier died made me D: Loved the Rodney parts, loved how he stood up for carson.

Was kinda suprised hes a clone, but it keeps sunday valid while bringing back a character.

I agree with whoever said the little kids thing was fubar. Such an evil villan.

Did anyone else notcie carson didnt say goodbye to rodney?

Whoa at preview for next week!

[MikeRasschaert]

I watched the episode and his being a clone felt forced. During his capture by Michael in Misbegotten, are we to believe that Michael had a plan all along to clone him when he drew some blood from him?
I find it weird that Michael came up with this genius idea while trying to find a way off the planet. He didn't knew that his fellow Wraith would turn on him at that point when he got back, and there weren't fond on experimenten on humans either.
It would have made more "sense" storywise to go the Daniel Jackson tour by ascending him and let him retake his human form, not on Atlantis but on another planet and was found by Michael. I think JM said in his blog that there were clues in "Sunday" on how he was to be brought back. I assumed he was talking of Carson being able to ascend and retake his human form, because he couldn't stand seeing people suffer and not be able to do anything about it. Than again, that has already been used when they brought back Daniel Jackson in season 7.
The chemistry between carson and the team was great. It felt like I was watching old episodes of Stargate Atlantis. But the plot of his clone going to die, is like reusing the plot of O'Neill's clone who wasn't perfect and going to die. It was like they were out of ideas there.
I mean, the Wraith can clone their warriors who function well, so why not humans?

[Briangate78]

I don´t know where to start but this was...terrible. I am so damn disappointed and angry right now!

First of all - tptb can´t keep their mounth shut so they spoil everything. And what isn´t spoiled, it´s not simply true. Our Carson...yeah, sure.

Pretty harsh! No, I'm sorry VERY harsh.

[sweetsamurai]

I don´t know where to start but this was...terrible. I am so damn disappointed and angry right now!

First of all - tptb can´t keep their mounth shut so they spoil everything. And what isn´t spoiled, it´s not simply true. Our Carson...yeah, sure.

There are very few things I liked - Rodney, Carson and, suprisingly Keller.
Rodney was really affected by Beckett´s return and his scene with Carson, telling him about his death and about loss of Elizabeth, it was very well done. I think the huge share in this have David with Paul who were both great in whole episode.
What more did I like? Oh, yeah, Halling and his return from plot hole.
I also liked Sheppard and Ronon. They stood behind Rodney´s decision about Carson and Shep seemed to understand Rodney and just...was there, which was cool.

Then, that´s it. No more positives.

Negatives - can I say whole episode? But it would be too rude so let´s start with...Teyla.
I understand that Rachel really isn´t an oscar actress, but add to that terrible lines and stupid plot holes and there is one of the worst characters ever. Her lines like "What is happening" "Don´t do this" and so on, it was just...so awful. Michael, who I like, seemed dull in this episode. To give him a purpose just to take Teyla´s baby and make him some hybrid or whatever is a cliché, and what´s worse, not too well written cliché.

Carter - She has no dynamics, no chemistry with anyone, not even Rodney. I started to tolerate her but let´s just say she isn´t Elizabeth. No way she could be compared to Elizabeth. Elizabeth had chemistry with everyone and was a chain for them. Carter just asks Sheppard/anyone about his opinion and then agrees. That´s all. Her conversations with Sheppard are talks between two people who look like they really just work together, nothing more.
The most ridiculous scene was when Carson called her Samantha and asked HER about taking his letter to his mother! Give me a break! Rodney should have been the one to do it. He told his mother about Carson´s death. And Carter, technically, isn´t even Carson´s commander.
I think the big problem is that they deal with things that happened long time before Carter came and so all those things, and people just don´t affect her. Exclude her because how could she care about a man, clone, who she barely knows. It´s not Carter´s attitude to be hostile, I know that. But this seemed unnatural.

Just keep McKay, Sheppard and Ronon, get rid of the rest and, don´t try to put so called story-arc into three episodes of twenty

I looked forward to this double-episode. And now I am angry, disappointed and I want to kick something or someone.

I just hope that season finale will be better so I can say that from S4 were 3 episodes good instead of 2.

I completely agree with everything you said here.

I got angry so I had a workout on my punch bag if you want to use it? lol

[lewismnflwr]

Over here in UK have only seen the 1st half of this ep and eeerrrrr......... I'm getting a bit frightened about what pt2 is going to be like !!!
Some of the bad comments I've been reading I can see my self sharing. So much about S4 has been dissappointing. Midway was fab !!! Loved the interaction tween Ronan and Teal'c.

I just wish tptb would stop messing with the show. leave the charactors and actors in the same place for more than one season !!!! Please

[sweetsamurai]

Over here in UK have only seen the 1st half of this ep and eeerrrrr......... I'm getting a bit frightened about what pt2 is going to be like !!!
Some of the bad comments I've been reading I can see my self sharing. So much about S4 has been dissappointing. Midway was fab !!! Loved the interaction tween Ronan and Teal'c.

I just wish tptb would stop messing with the show. leave the charactors and actors in the same place for more than one season !!!! Please

Yes Midway, written by Carl Binder was excellent! I've watched that episode like 5 times!

[Koshi700]

I'm just glad Carson's back. Although I was under the same impression as a lot of other people that Carson would be the original Carson and not a clone, I can live with the clone. I am very happy right now. As long as they do the rest of his story arc right, I'll remain very happy. I'm actually pretty excited about Season 5 now, where as before I was just kind of, "Yeah okay, I'll watch, but meh". I had a feeling Carson would bring back that old spark for me! This season, while moslty good, has felt empty without him. Even just the thought that he's not dead makes things better. I know, I'm weird. That's not news people!

[P-90_177]

That was a very good ep. I esspecially like the little moments between Carson and Rodney and Shep. Michael also seems to be more evil than ever.

[jwillis77373]

Abscence makes the heart grow fonder.

It seems since Weir and Beckett left.. and with all the reluctance.. that the show has just gone no where.

Seeing them back was a fun treat.

Something has been lost since the early days of Stargate.. and the movie.. the surprise and wonder. Only in the darker side that people could be killed has the show recouped some of those elements and its only the darker side.. I don't watch shows merely for tragedy.

Sci Fi needs an element of Sci as well as Fi.. look at Numb3rs..

They need interesting guest stars too.. how about Michio Kaku? He would make a wonderful consultant or guest star in some minor roll.. some of the best appearances come from the supporting cast.

[lewismnflwr]

Midway was classic loved watching the boys square against each other