'Reunion' (403) General Discussion

[FoolishPleasure]

Overall I liked the episode for the most part, but I love Ronon, and Ronon and Teyla scenes always work well. When Jason gets a good script to work with, he takes over the screen. More Ronon time from the writers, please!

I did like the talk between Sheppard and Carter regarding Weir, but with everything Carter has been through with O'Neill - going off on impossible missions and disobeying orders, she should be the LAST person to be fretting over a dangerous mission to rescue a team member. It seemed very out of character for her.

Otherwise:

I kept expecting The Chairman to break out today's mystery ingredient.

Carter still isn't fitting in for me. Why was she on this mission with her guns? The base commander and second-in-command (Sheppard) should NEVER be on life threatening missions together.

Biggest problem?

When Carter came through the gate, her subordinate, John Sheppard, did not salute her when she took command of Atlantis. Since when does a full-bird Colonel take command of a base and NO ONE salutes them??? Carter then starts referring to Shep as "John" almost immediately. We have seen no previous history between these two and even if they were personal friends, one commands the other, and first names from day one is a big NO-NO! These guys are in the Air Force, yes? Or does protocol go out the window when one goes off world? That just irritated the heck outta me.

Overall, I give this episode a B+ - Ronon was great, and I liked Teyla here. Always good to see Zelenka too.

[AGateFan]

To my understanding, "Saint Carter" is a quasi-derogatory term us anti-Carters (I only became an anti-Carterian recently) invented to use for the characters of Sam Carter, who can bever do anything wrong. Or if she does, it's never anything big. 10 years on Stargate and she's got an almost perfect record.

She's the perfect little girl who does everything right and is always right. When I say "Saint Carter"-fans, I mean the fans who are a fan of her and view her as perfect.

So its a quasi-derogatory way to demean other fans? Nice.

[FallenAngelII]

Can you honestly see Rodney giving it 30 seconds thought. He's probably been thinking about it for a while. I know I would in his position. It's natural. What he did/didn't read isn't known to the audience, but if you note since Siege II, I think it was, he's always felt as if a Science leader should play a bigger part in the leadership... and Letters from Pegaus comes to mind to. So it's not (for me anyway) something that comes from a whim, or just reading the description of whose become the leader. McKay and Carter's science backgrounds are very similar, so it's natural for him to think it was him that was chosen. So, yes, a lot of thought.

Yes, but does that make him less sympathetic to Elizabeth? It's not like he was ever plotting overthrowing her rule.

I didn't say the leader had to be purely military, I said that given the situation it's understandable and logical that they'd want someone who had experience in those fields that could bridge the gap between science and military. Rodney can fire a P90, but can he plan a military offensive if required? No. It's not his area of expertise, but Carter as I said above can bridge the gap. I really don't think McKay would be comfortable ordering a strategice offensive/defencive if he was the leader. Sometimes he can be obective, but when it comes to his friends, like Weir he struggled. He didn't want Weir's death on his conscionce knowing full well he could have prevented it. He couldn't see the bigger picture with Weir, and i'm not bashing him for it, she was his friend. Some people can't make those hard choices, and it's not a slight on him if he can't.

Which is why Elizabeth was the perfect choice. She was neither of those things. She was the inbetween who looked at things from both perspective objectively.

The leader does not need to be military or have military insight. That's what they have military leaders for. The leader just needs to evaluate the opinion of the military leader and then go with their gut instinct.

name me one ep where he's done that? He goes into hostile territory, but he's ever SENT anyone into hostile territory, that's the difference, and it's a biggie.

Name one episode where Sam has done it ('til now).

How am I defending Sam? Because I thought she fitted in well here? Well, if that's defending her, then yes I am. However, if you note in my DG post, I wasn't so 'defensive' ergo I can be objective. I'm not saying you're not entitled to your opinion regarding the other characters, i'm saying that if you dish it out, you need to bear in mind that you may have to take it, if people disagree.

I said that you're already defending sam for the stuff that'll happen according to the spoilers. Which is OK, I guess. As long as you weren't among the ones who blamed the expedition for what happened in "Allies". Because then you'd be one of those hypocrites I hate.

[Meg-Ann]

I enjoyed this episode...Some nice character moments, and Carter seemed to work well with everyone. Missed the first ten minutes though, because my Tivo decided not to record it for some reason. Agh!

*Was anyone else bugged by the Wraith's hair? Wow that was a bad wig. Usually it's not so bad, but this one was so obviously a wig that it was sparkling.

I was. Very much so in fact. It was almost as bad as the painted pineapple.

[LoneStar1836]

-Will we see the Iron Chef host again? Maybe he and Ronon can have a cook off.

LOL! I knew that had to be him. It finally dawned on me who he was about halfway through the ep., though my brother didn't believe me when I told him who that was.

I don't normally focus on ship questions/issues, but did anyone notice during the Carter/Rodney scene if that was an 8x10 pic of Jack O'Neill in one of Sam's unpacked boxes?? Maybe a little too subtle?

Or not subtle enough seeing as how I noticed it upon second viewing. I'm not too keen on S/J ship and had to go *ugh* when I saw that pic.




When it was announced that AT was moving over to SGA, I remained neutral about her addition to the cast, deciding to wait and see how it went. So far I'm liking her addition to the show. While Weir was never a favorite character, I didn't completely dislike the character, but I'm not exactly missing her either now that she is gone. On SG-1, Carter was also a neutral character for me. Liked the character well enough but then when it came to seasons 7 and especially 8, I didn't particularly like some of the writing for her. I saw season 8 as almost a complete waste for the character since she was supposed to be the leader of SG-1, but the writers did a poor job of portraying that...as in practically ignoring that fact. So unlike season 8, I'm hoping that on SGA, Carter gets the chance to exhibit some strong leadership skills and qualities this season and do some actual leading. I think the character can be a good addition to the show if the writers cooperate and do a decent job of writing for her. As to this episode, since Carter is trained military with loads of off-world experience, I can see her going off-world and participating on certain military missions more than Weir did. Did she really need to go on this one? Probably not, but it was AT's introduction to the show as new leader so obviously they are going to give her character more face time which meant her going on the rescue mission.

Anyway.... Decent episode. Better than I thought it would be, but not exactly a compelling episode in terms of plot. It was too predictable, but the character interactions where still good enough to make it enjoyable. Next week's episode looks interesting. So far I'm liking season 4 more than disliking it.

[Gate gal]

Well, since John would have to go to the leader regarding any sort of rescue plan, John had to go to Sam with his proposal. And it's her responsibility as leader to let him know he's pretty much talking about a suicide mission, so...no. I don't think of it as being Wei'rs argumentative role. If they had made Woolsey the leader of Atlantis (GOD FORBID!) he would have seen the logic in telling Sheppard that he doesn't have enough intel to pull off Weir's rescue so forget it.

I really enjoyed this episode for many of the same reasons that everyone else has stated.

I didn't think too much about Sam saying John instead of Sheppard. It didn't really bother me while I was watching the episode. Now, O'Neill always called other military folk by their last name - certainly everyone ranked below him. The ones that used first names were military talking with non-military or Sam and Cam (same rank). HOWEVER, Gen. Hammond would use Jack's first name. So, maybe it's her perogative use first names? I think I kinda like her saying John because when she talks to him it feels less like, "Listen to me, you work for me now" and more like "We're working together now."

Also - as leader of Atlantis, it doesn't really make sense to be going off-world, but I *love* having Sam joining missions. (When Jack was promoted I hated thinking of him left behind a desk with the team off-world.) Think: she is one of the most capable people around - someone who could stumble upon Ancient technology and fiddle with it as well as pull out her P-90 and blast away attacking Wraith. I'd want her on any team of mine! And as others have pointed out, there are precedents in scifi for the leader joining missions (such as Picard and Janeway).

Anyway, those were my thoughts.

I am so glad you mentioned the General Hammond connection. I really felt like Sam's leadership style in this episode was a nod to him. As for her going offworld, her premier team was in trouble. She did the right thing. I remember Hammond and Jack (and even Landry) when the situation called for it. I doubt we'll see Black ops Sam very often, but it felt right here. I also liked that she was all for John rescuing Elizabeth if there was a chance of success. She doesn't want to leave anyone behind, but she won't risk lives without a real plan. That's just good leadership skills and, again, a nod to General Hammond's style of leadership.

I loved Teyla's bar fight scene. I thought she held her own pretty well considering it was three on one. I also really enjoyed all of the Teyla/Ronan scenes, and I think this episode actually got into why Teyla was in Atlantis better than any other episode. She's said before that she could do more for her people from Atlantis than any where else, but in this episode we saw how hard it was for her to be seperated from her people. A good leader does what is best for her people even if it means personal sacrifice (think Elizabeth).

Rodney made me laugh again. I like him best when he's making me laugh. I loved the fruit/flowers angle, the awkward moment with Sam, and the way he tried to stall the wraith. This is the Rodney I like best.

John's loyalty to Elizabeth was just right. He's thinking. He'll find a way to mount a rescue mission. I loved the John/Rodney moments and the John/Ronan moments. Classic buddy moments, classic Stargate.

Honestly, this is the first Ronan heavy episode that I really enjoyed. They are usually not my favorites. I love Ronan, but his episodes tend to be more violent. I have to send the kids out of the room, and war breaks out at my house. This one was character driven and fabulous, but it had just enough fight to make it wonderfully entertaining.

10/10 Best episode of the season. I can't wait until next week.

[Pegasus_SGA]

Hmmm. First impressions. Let's get the bad out of the way first. Most of it is actually just details....

Cons:


*Was anyone else bugged by the Wraith's hair? Wow that was a bad wig. Usually it's not so bad, but this one was so obviously a wig that it was sparkling.

I noticed that to. it was very 70's hehehe. I was half expecting some glittery eyeshadow.

*And now for my big, major, grip with the episode-and that was the opening scene with Rodney. OK. I love Rodney. He's probably my favorite character, although Shep is a pretty close second. But.....I hated this scene. With a deep deep hatred. Normally this would be classic Rodney, and not a problem. But under the circumstances, I felt like it was almost grotesquely inappropriate. They've just lost Elizabeth, someone who Rodney was very close to, and respected a great deal. And Rodney carries some of the responsibility for what's happened to her. One of my major gripes with Lifeline was that we never got any sort of a reaction from Rodney losing Elizabeth, other than his shocked look in the jumper. But Lifeline was so packed that I was willing to let it go if they addressed it in the next episode. But here, not only is Rodney NOT mourning Elizabeth, he's practically vibrating in excitement about being chosen to replace her. Bad bad character continuity. They threw away the chance for some depth from Rodney in favor of trying to add some laughs. Well, I wasn't laughing. And yes, I know we don't know how much time has passed. But....I'm sorry. The way Lifeline went....I needed more than that. Hopefully sometime later we'll get some reaction from Rodney about Elizabeth, and I'll be able to forgive this scene. Right now, not so much.

I was surprised in Adrift at that bit to, to be honest. I know where you're coming from, but from my point of view we don't know how long it's been since she left. So, while I don't think they've gotten over her not being there. Rodney is very much a pragmatist, so I just see it as him being him, he doesn't show his feelings in public that often. But he did seem rather exhauberant... maybe he was just fed up with Shep leading the team, so he was grateful for anyone including himself.

Okay, i'm done rambling on that. I know what you mean though. He doesn't seem the same person that wrote the book for her. But in the words of Rodney McKay.

Spoilers for DG

Spoiler:

"I'm pretty screwed up!"

*runs and hides*
Great post hon.

Yes, but does that make him less sympathetic to Elizabeth? It's not like he was ever plotting overthrowing her rule.


Which is why Elizabeth was the perfect choice. She was neither of those things. She was the inbetween who looked at things from both perspective objectively.

Who said he'd been plotting to overthrow her? I said he'd given it a lot of thought, I didn't say anything about him plotting mutiny. Although that could make a great ep.

The situation is different now, and my only point was, I didn't feel that McKay was qualified to lead Atlantis at the moment. if circumstances change and everything's hunky dory, then i'm sure he'd do well, but Rodney is not a people person. People piss him off, until they got to know him and vice versa. He needs to work on his diplomacy skills a bit more. My point was at this time, with the Wraith and the Asurans, they needed a balance between a tactical specialist/diplomat one that could assist in both areas. Weir (as much as I liked her) was against the proliferation of certain weapons, and wouldn't authorise a first strike when it was deemed necessary, because it went against what she believed in. However given the situation now, Sam will do that if necessary. If you have a leader who cannot for one reason or another do what is necessary to protect the city, then they will and have found someone to do that.

The leader does not need to be military or have military insight. That's what they have military leaders for. The leader just needs to evaluate the opinion of the military leader and then go with their gut instinct.


Name one episode where Sam has done it ('til now).

I beg to differ, Military training is essential at the moment given the state of play in the PG. How can you go on 'gut instinct' if you haven't had that experience? Your 'gut feeling' is your body and brains way of using past experience and knowledge as well as being aware of feelings involving the enemy to help you in a situation. If you have no military training and background, how can you use your 'gut' to your advantage? Diplomacy was Weir's strength and she used her 'gut' frequently in the department. Carter is a soldier, therefore she uses her military training/science training to back her.

One ep where she's had to make hard decisions? How about when she's led the team in S8? Or leaving Cassie and putting her in the elevator in S2? But that's not the subject of this thread is it? It's not a pissing match between Carter/Weir and Rodney, besides after Rodney got over the shock he was fine with it, shame the same can't be said for us debating this wonderful point.

I said that you're already defending sam for the stuff that'll happen according to the spoilers. Which is OK, I guess. As long as you weren't among the ones who blamed the expedition for what happened in "Allies". Because then you'd be one of those hypocrites I hate.

Actually I said I'm not prepared to do the blame game until i'd seen the ep. if I disagree with her, then i'm perfectly capable of saying so, likewise if I agree with her i'll say something.

So as long as i'm not 'among the ones' you're happy to let this drop? Glad to know my opinion is good by you, i'll sleep well tonight. Thanks for that. I'd hate for this to turn into a pissing match (to quote Shep)

[starwars9771]

I don't normally focus on ship questions/issues, but did anyone notice during the Carter/Rodney scene if that was an 8x10 pic of Jack O'Neill in one of Sam's unpacked boxes?? Maybe a little too subtle?

Hello all!!

Finally out here this afternoon. Reading through pages and it took till page 3 to find someone who saw the 8 X 10 of Jack!!! Enjoyed last nights episode. Can't wait to see Christopher Judge in Midway!! Curious as to how the rest of the season will go. This will be good!!! Have a great weekend!

Jen

[FallenAngelII]

Not to infect this thread, but here are the facts about that picture in Sam's luggage:
* Said picture is a screen capture fro "Singularity" from season 1.
* The picture is 10 years old and Jack isn't even looking into the camera.
* Sam brought it along.

My theory is that Stalker-Sam took it with a stealth camera hidden in her hair.

[Integrabyte]

I noticed that to. it was very 70's hehehe. I was half expecting some glittery eyeshadow.

I did not even pay attention to that Wraith. Sam and Ronon took all my attention. Sam was great and the scene with Teal'c and "domestic ..." was very good. Brought back good memories from Sg1.

I was surprised in Adrift at that bit to, to be honest. I know where you're coming from, but from my point of view we don't know how long it's been since she left. So, while I don't think they've gotten over her not being there. Rodney is very much a pragmatist, so I just see it as him being him, he doesn't show his feelings in public that often. But he did seem rather exhauberant... maybe he was just fed up with Shep leading the team, so he was grateful for anyone including himself.

Okay, i'm done rambling on that. I know what you mean though. He doesn't seem the same person that wrote the book for her. But in the words of Rodney McKay.

Not to offend Weir fans but in my opinion S4 needs to continue the story and not to mourn Weir.

Actually I said I'm not prepared to do the blame game until i'd seen the ep. if I disagree with her, then i'm perfectly capable of saying so, likewise if I agree with her i'll say something.

So as long as i'm not 'among the ones' you're happy to let this drop? Glad to know my opinion is good by you, i'll sleep well tonight. Thanks for that. I'd hate for this to turn into a pissing match (to quote Shep)

Peggy, Sam will give you a good impression. She is both fragile and strong at the same time

[Ruined_puzzle]

Not to infect that pictures, but here are the facts:
* Said picture is a screen capture fro "Singularity" from season 1.
* The picture is 10 years old and Jack isn't even looking into the camera.
* Sam brought it along.

My theory is that Stalker-Sam took it with a stealth camera hidden in her hair.

LMAO.

[Pegasus_SGA]

I am so glad you mentioned the General Hammond connection. I really felt like Sam's leadership style in this episode was a nod to him. As for her going offworld, her premier team was in trouble. She did the right thing. I remember Hammond and Jack (and even Landry) when the situation called for it. I doubt we'll see Black ops Sam very often, but it felt right here. I also liked that she was all for John rescuing Elizabeth if there was a chance of success. She doesn't want to leave anyone behind, but she won't risk lives without a real plan. That's just good leadership skills and, again, a nod to General Hammond's style of leadership.

Great observations, and you're right, she even said as much to Sheppard. And with Ronon there acting as a 'guide' if you will, he was able to give them the advantage of layout and numbers to give her a heads up. I really like that she's taken on some of Hammond's traits, and it's nice to see her in command to be honest and see how she handles things is different to Weir, which is an interesting tac to take.

I loved Teyla's bar fight scene. I thought she held her own pretty well considering it was three on one. I also really enjoyed all of the Teyla/Ronan scenes, and I think this episode actually got into why Teyla was in Atlantis better than any other episode. She's said before that she could do more for her people from Atlantis than any where else, but in this episode we saw how hard it was for her to be seperated from her people. A good leader does what is best for her people even if it means personal sacrifice (think Elizabeth).

That was a great scene for Teyla, we'd heard her say previously the reason's why she was in Atlantis instead of with her people. But it was nice to see the writers exploring her leadership skills and her feelings again. Something i'm looking forward to quite about this season is to see more of Teyla and the skills we saw early on, and here's hoping this is the start of things to come.

Not to infect that pictures, but here are the facts:
* Said picture is a screen capture fro "Singularity" from season 1.
* The picture is 10 years old and Jack isn't even looking into the camera.
* Sam brought it along.

My theory is that Stalker-Sam took it with a stealth camera hidden in her hair.

And the point of this was?

I did not even pay attention to that Wraith. Sam and Ronon took all my attention. Sam was great and the scene with Teal'c and "domestic ..." was very good. Brought back good memories from Sg1.

Not to offend Weir fans but in my opinion S4 needs to continue the story and not to mourn Weir.

Hiya hon. I think one of the things that some people (including me) were worried about was if there was going to be any friction. Well that scene for me anyway was a clever way to create that without it coming off as forced. I liked the bonding at the end with the two in the jumper. But I think it'll be a while before he gets to know her and trust her. Even with Weir he was guarded for quite a while, and I don't expect this to be any different. I like that he brought up about Weir and how she wouldn't have told him no, and would have trusted him implicitely, and he's infering that she doesn't. Great scene.

I agree with you on Weir. She's not dead and dead and missing are two completely different things.

Peggy, Sam will give you a good impression. She is both fragile and strong at the same time

I really liked Sam in this (compared to DG) she seemed like her 'normal self' I like that Sam is not afraid to say that she's frightened of leaving the safety of her home and family and that she had doubts about thing. The scene with teal'c had me reaching for my tissues. I'll see how the rest of the season pans out with how I feel about Sam being on Atlantis, but after seeing her 'sworn in'... (and just where were the personell and salutes)? I feel better than I did last week.

One thing I forgot to mention was the nice touch with the tradtional Hawaiian tattoing. I wonder if Jason had it done that way in RL or if he went and did it as it was shown in the ep? Great bit of research for that. It really suited the scene.

[Cautious Explorer]

Finally, Ronon and Teyla get to be part of the show. I enjoyed the team being all together again.

I would have liked to have seen a little more interaction between Ronon and John, and I think a final scene between the two of them, or the whole team, was sorely missing.

I'm still having trouble getting used to Carter. I'm not crazy about the leader going on a mission right off the bat, but I could live with that if she just didn't suck the excitement out of the action scenes. Maybe it's AT's attempt at showing that Carter is a seasoned veteran and nothing fazes her, but to me it just comes off as Carter being very unconcerned, almost bored with everything. Not a way to contribute to the suspense.

[FallenAngelII]

And the point of this was?

As response to the many (Ok, so I've seen, like 3, but still) posts in this thread that states that the picture is proof of a S/J-relationship (or an indication of such).

It's more like it's an indication of Sam's stalker tendencies.

I've also been informed by Saberhagen83 that the angles do not match up as Sam was sitting down and as such, could not have taken that shot.

She obviously rigged a camera in a tree somewhere beforehand (or while Jack was distracted), because why else would she have that picture (no camera was in sight)? She's even sneakier than I originally thought.

[AGateFan]

As response to the many (Ok, so I've seen, like 3, but still) posts in this thread that states that the picture is proof of a S/J-relationship (or an indication of such).

It's more like it's an indication of Sam's stalker tendencies.

I've also been informed by Saberhagen83 that the angles do not match up as Sam was sitting down and as such, could not have taken that shot.

She obviously rigged a camera in a tree somewhere beforehand (or while Jack was distracted), because why else would she have that picture (no camera was in sight)? She's even sneakier than I originally thought.

Was it McKay or Beckett who was the stalker who took the pic of both of them walking in a field. I cant remember if that was on Mckays desk or Becketts desk being cleaned off by Mckay (in THAT episode)... I just know I said to myself "Hey I have that picture...hey wait who took that picture since that was a scene from that one ep".....

Again nothing here is unusual in the Stargate universe. Nothing new, people have in ep pics in their private space on the show all the time. Commanders go off on away missions all the time. Rodney is unthoughtful all the time (so that scene actually seemed in character to me). The only thing I ask with an SGA episode this season is that they remain true to SGA, and so far that is what I am seeing.