'Miller's Crossing' (409) General Discussion

[jelgate]

Put that picture away before Peg see it. The last thing we need is her drooling over Sheppard and Ronon
*shudders in fear of that thought*

[Freekzilla]

Oh yeah, the Tin Man advertising was EXTREMELY annoying beyond belief! It was a real turnoff and I certainly won't be watching it, for two reasons, Skiffy made it, and skiffy over promoted it, correction, 3 reasons, because it looks like crap too. Err, scratch that, 4 reasons, they've NEVER advertised SGA or SG-1 that much. Not even close. *flips the bird to skiffy*

[Heaven]

that's what I call implausible circumstance plot

this story was so artificial

absolutely hated it

[SaberBlade]

Walter makes me miss SG1.

Sad thing is, that's like the best/longest thing he's done since going space cowboy with that Alkesh. Ronan's reaction to him was great.

"I've put her into a medically induced coma and broke her legs"

Seriously that's like the best line ever. I have to say that i'm being impressed with Heyerdhal as the Wraith all the time. Actually yawning through McKay's plea was a nice touch to showing just how much he doesn't care about human life, that despite all his help he wouldn't be bothered if everyone just died as long as the code gets done.

I wasn't too happy with Sheppard. It was sort of predictable that Culp's character would eventually be made the goat for the Wraith to feed on, but trying to guilt him into it, it wasn't him. While it does fit with him willing to protect his team member and using the bad guy as a McHuman, but I don't believe that it was right for him to do that, and for all those guards to take part in what is essentially a coverup. It was nice to see that he still had some guilt over it but I can see someone like Woolsey or the IOA using their story about the Wraith feeding as an excuse to kill the Wraith so it should come back to bite them in the ass.

[Ruffles]

I like the idea of feeding vegetable girl to Todd. The line about her dying was sort stuck in there, like TPTB knew they had to get rid of her somehow, but didn't know how to do it, so. . ."she died". She could have died saving the sister, but no, its just mentioned that she died. Plain old dead-end writing.

I disagree. I thought the nanites having a weakness was an interesting twist. Plus, no way would Sheppard ask the dad to sacrifice the daughter nor would the dad ever consider it, even if she was a vegetable.

Shep had no right to push that man into suicide. Wallace should have been arrested and given a trial but Shep took the law into his own hands and basically was responsible for another man's demise. There are LAWS and people can't go around cause other people to die for revenge, or to save a relative. If everyone did that we would have total anarchy. There needed to be some sort of punishment for Shep. I would have loved to see how Teyla or Weir would have reacted to his actions. Instead, we get Rodney and Shep walking off into the sunset (or down the hall in this case).

Whether or not Wallace sacrificed himself, he would never see the inside of a courtroom. He knows too much - the SGC, Atlantis, the Wraith.

What would you punish Shep for? Having a conversation? If he'd dragged Wallace into a room and locked him in with the Wraith, I'd agree. But showing the guy pictures of Jeannie's family and reminding him of what he'd done? I don't think there's a crime there.

As for Teyla's reaction, watch Trinity again when Ronon kills Kell in cold blood. She is furious that he used her but says in his place she would probably have done the same thing. Or watch her slit the guy's throat in Missing. I don't think she would have been overly horrified at Sheppard's choice.

Out of curiosity, what would your solution be? Because Rodney was not going to let his sister die.

I think Wallace was trying to save his daughter with what little time he had left. He was desperate to save her so he used the only advanced technology, that he thought would work. His daughter had only months to live so it was a last ditch effort. Jeannie, as a mother, certainly felt for him despite what he put her through.

Was it the wrong decision? Yeah Wallace was dealing with technology he didn't fully understand. He only knew that McKay had used the technology to save Weir. Just like doctors in the 1800's who used leeches to bleed a patient, thinking that would cure them. Or in the twentieth century when open heart surgeries first began. The doctors didn't have the knowledge back then that they do today. My great uncle was the first open heart patient in my city, before I was born. He died a fews days later. Are these doctors murderers... No my family didn't think so. It was a last ditch effort to save them. Was kidnapping Rodney and Jeanie the answers either... Nope not by a long shot! Two wrongs don't make a right. However having Sheppard guilt him into killing himself to save Jeannie seemed way out of character for Sheppard.

I loved the first part of the episode. I always enjoy Rodney and Jeannie's banter!! They are hilarious together! I loved the part where Rodney wanted to sacrifice himself, great character moment. I also liked that Sheppard wouldn't let him do it. Ronon in street cloths was nice!! And his reaction to Walter in the Commissary was funny as well. Wish they would have mentioned Teyla.

In Sateda, Sheppard tells Teyla that he would do anything for any of them. There was no way he was going to let Rodney die. I found it completely in character for John to do whatever was necessary to remedy the situation. I wonder what he would have done if Wallace had refused. I don't think Sheppard would have forced him. I think he would have offered himself instead.

[Erised]

hold on...
this episode also reminded me...
oh what was it?
oh yes....
Desperate Measures!!!

[lirenel]

You know, I'm continually surprised at how many people dislike the episodes that I consider great. In fact, the only parts I didn't like were Walter's joke (he should know better after all these years that the alien visitor probably wouldn't get it) and McKay kicking the door (mostly because I can never handle watching people be embarrassed. Never)

I loved that McKay was willing to die for his sister. Like others have mentioned, he knows what a Wraith-feeding does, but was willing to do it for Jeannie. And then you just know that he was trying to sneak into his lab in order to go behind Sheppard's back and do it anyway. And despite all that, despite his complete willingness to die for his sister, when she finally wakes up he just kinda shrugs a "love you too", putting on the mask that he uses to hide his feelings from others.

I thought the bad guy (whose name I can't remember so I'll call him 'Webb' because, hey, how many years as Clayton Webb on JAG?) was perfectly understandable. His daughter was dying. He thought Rodney and Jeannie could fix her. He was desperate enough to risk everything. But he was a good enough guy to give up his life to save Jeannie, who he had put at risk. He also probably felt he didn't have anything to live for. As for John showing him the photographs, they may have been needed. Even if Webb already was deciding that he would do it, it takes a lot for a person, even a despondent one, to willingly give up their life. The pictures would have steeled his resolve.

And I don't think it was out of character for Sheppard to try and convince Webb. I think he knew Rodney would do something desperate, and he had to save his family. He had to. It's interesting to juxtapose Webb desperate to save his daughter and Sheppard doing something he knew was morally ambiguous in order to save his teammate/friend/brother.

As for the end scene, I think Sheppard was hiding how much feeding Webb to the Wraith darkened his soul. I look forward to seeing how fanfic writers take that scene. I may take a crack at it myself.

Finally: I love that Rodney called Madison 'lady'. He has a pet name for her! It's adorable, imo.

[jelgate]

hold on...
this episode also reminded me...
oh what was it?
oh yes....
Desperate Measures!!!

I knew it was only a matter of tim someone brought that up. The only similarity between those two episodes is that someone was kidnapped. There kidnapper and why the person were kiddnapped was totally different.

[Quinn Mallory]

Not quite the tone that I was expecting with the expectation from the last Jeanie episode last year. However, I would have to say that I found this episode quite fascinating. I think the ethically grey action by Sheppard at the end was very SG (in showing how our heroes are perhaps flawed). That really made the episode. I think I was particularly worried/invested in this episode due to the false rumors that I stumbled upon that Jeanie might die in this episode. For an episode with only half of the regular cast, this was a pretty good one.

Also, it was good to see the SGC again both in the set that was supposed to represent the SGC and in Wallace's office that looked awfully like General Hammond/O'Neal/Landry's office (I may be wrong about this).

Finally, if I'm going to nitpick, I would say that in practice that it's a bit implausible that the Wraith would be moved to Earth that quickly even with McKay's pull as a valuable member of Atlantis. You would think that the Earth bureaucrats would have blocked that.

[Erised]

I knew it was only a matter of tim someone brought that up. The only similarity between those two episodes is that someone was kidnapped. There kidnapper and why the person were kiddnapped was totally different.

you know, the very reason you thought of it just proves the fact that you found it similar too... It's ok, you don't have to deny it. Remember, TPTB admitted that they were reusing SG-1 scripts.

[jelgate]

you know, the very reason you thought of it just proves the fact that you found it similar too... It's ok, you don't have to deny it. Remember, TPTB admitted that they were reusing SG-1 scripts.

No I didn't. I just knew some angry fans would compare the two episodes like they did with The Seer and Prophecy which I thought were completely different. Besides kidnaping someone who works for the SGC they were completely different episodes.

[majorsal]

this ep was alright for me. i saw too many plot holes, but i'll just leave it at that i guess.

i enjoyed mckay and his sister. that's about it.




sally

[ann_sgcfan]

I do like Sheppard! I think I need to clarify that and I liked the episode up until the moment where he is talking to Wallace. I can see Sheppard doing almost anything to save his team... but to actually provide the wraith with a meal?

The writers put the story out there and the solution that Sheppard decided to go with agree or disagree... like or dislike. It's now cannon and it's part of the character. I am hoping now that the writers don't try to bury it like it was a walk in th park. I think Sheppard was bothered by what he did at the very end of the episode. What happens when Todd is let go and the two meet on opposing sides? I'm sure Todd will remind Sheppard that he allowed him to feed on a human. It was definitely a dark turn. It will be interesting to see where they take it from here.

[Major_Griff]

Good episode. I'm really liking how there really have been no stand alones this year thus far. Every ep has tied into a larger storyline. And they still manage to keep the show from becoming too serialized. It was nice to see Jeanie again. I liked that for once, it wasn't the Trust. Also it was cool how it wasn't like Shep and Ronon rescue the McKay's and then eps over, there was a lot more they had to do to save Jeanie. I liked the dark ending. I did think it was a little but out of character and out of line for Sheppard to suggest that Wallace allow himself to be wraithed, but it was nice for a change to have a truly dark ending. Also I realized that Teyla was not in the ep! This is significant because I didn't notice she was missing from The Intruder until she showed up at the end and I didn't realize that she was missing in GUP until I had watched it several times on DVD. Its great that they have finally made the character stand out to the point where it is noticeable if she misses an ep. Over I give Miller's Crossing an 8/10.

[Leliana McKay]

...well the episode was ok or I should say Good until the suicide by Wraith moment.

This was a very charged with feelings episode. I usually like those kind of episodes but I think the acting was not up to the usual standard for some people or maybe it was just the writing of some scenes...

I liked the episode but it could have been a lot better. Now as to compare M&MM with M'C, well I think I prefered the first one (acting speaking, plotwise I would say Miller's Crossing was a bit better). Both episodes have great plots.

The best thing in Miller's Crossing was every scene between Rodney and his sister.

When Rodney captured, first sees Jeannie and hugs her so happy that she is alive I had this smile on my face.
I am happy with the fact that the writers are sticking to the Rodney character growth and the familly feeling with his sister.

My favorite scene was the " Are you gonna marry that Katie girl" or something close to that.
First, I'm glad that Jeannie and Rodney are talking about personal stuff rather then only work, life threatening issues. Second, the scene was hilarious. Jeannie hinting he should marry Katie because he is not going to get anyone better, and physically Rodney is "No John Sheppard" !!
AHAHAHAHAH!!! What a nice sister!
I would argue that I think Rodney is sexier then John ... in his own style (I somehow don't find Sheppard sexy, sorry!) and I think Rodney COULD get someone better than Katie.

Rodney is useless with memorizing a map! (Of course Rodney knowing a way out of the building would have been too easy)

David and Kate are so good at playing the growing tension between siblings. Rodney was very touching and cute in this episode.


I did NOT like the scene with Ronon and Walter in the mess hall. What a waste of a scene. The writers could have written something a lot better for those two great characters.


My second favorite scene Rodney volunteering his life for his sister. Very moving scene, The second scene this season where Sheppard shows his deep friendship feelings for Rodney. I was thinking that John would volunteer ... but he just orders Rodney not to do it (ok I understand why John is saying and doing that and that's fine but the next scene I cannot forgive...)

Sheppard talks to Wallace and shows him pictures of Maddison and Caleb. AND manages to convince Wallace to die for Jeannie.
I can't believe how manipulative Sheppard is. First Wallace loses his daughter ( to me he is just a desperate father (no joke intended here) who tried to save his daughter) and John tells him that he has to die life sucked by a Wraith to do the right thing? ok injecting Jeannie as not very nice)
I so wanted to strangle Sheppard (obviously I don't want Rodney to be a Wraith hamburger but I just feel that Sheppard war too dark and evil to Wallace)

Rodney with Lee's card tries to go to the wraith to die for his sister but ... surprise... Sheppard has already killed Wallace (yes that's what I think of Sheppard's actions) -please argue if you want but I just feel it was wrong.

Jeannie alive and the second hug was awesome. Than, she tells him "I love you" and Rodney reluctantly says the "I love you too", Rodney is coming out of his shell!

Of course Jeannie is not gonna let Rodney go easy with the "you almost got me killed" situation... I'm looking forward to future references in some episode.

Back on Atlantis, Rodney talks to Sheppard about what he did. Rodney is not happy with what John did but still thanks him for saving his life. (Even more unhappy I am. I would have prefered no thanks but just a... ok, I undestand why you did it)

The back to friend so fast and good look discussion ( even look!) was not welcome here after such a moral dilemma. I know Atlantis is supposed to have funny moments but I'm sure fans can deal with a tense ending between characters once in a while.

Difficult to grade for the obvious dilemma...
8... or 8.5/10 for Miller's Crossing.