Irises on Midway

[Dobberman]

I noticed it as soon as Rodney said 'no need for an iris or shield', it stood out like a sore thumb cause a) he never said that and b) there was an iris on the computer screen in adrift, and it bugged me for the whole episode cause the whole plot was based on it..

[Kribby]

I think the Wraith were equally stupid.


2. What were the Wraith hoping to do on Earth? gather intel? If Todd did indeed give them intel, he should have told them the base was underground and that getting out would not be possible.

The lead Wraith said they were establishing a 'Beachhead' but I didn't really get what it meant.

Edit:
Okay, I wiki'd it. So... they had a plan... remember the part of the episode when the wraith was talking to Sheppard and McKay through the camera thingy.

Beachhead is a military term used to describe the line created when a unit (by sea) reaches a beach, and begins to defend that area of beach, while other reinforcements (it is hoped) help out, until a unit large enough to begin advancing has arrived.

[morjana]

Regarding the “previously on” teaser for Midway from season three’s episode, “The Return, Part 1,” NEW Rodney dialogue is included. The line, “The program is completely secure, no need for a shield or an iris” was not in the broadcast episode of “The Return, Part 1,” and if you listen closely, you can hear the drop-off in the sound that possibly indicates the dialogue was edited to include this line.

Somewhat similar to what happened in the fifth season Stargate SG-1 episode, “The Sentinel,” where new video was filmed to show Grieves and Kershaw being taken prisoner at the end of season three’s episode, “Shades of Grey.”

[nx01a]

I think that earth and atlantis showed some almost goa'uld like stupidity and overconfidance here

I believe you mean 'almost Ancient'.

[Xaeden]

I disagree. In that instance the concern was that the Asurans would crack it. They are much smarter than the Wraith. THe only reason the Wraith were able to do it was because they now found out about Midway. Yes they were overconfident but that is a common flaw in the Military. They truly felt they were secure.

Basically what I wrote agreed with what you're saying here. I agree that the military had reason to believe they were secure based on Mckay's assurances and the belief that Midway could not be gotten to without first getting sensitive data from Atlantis. I'm blaming Mckay, not the military.

Todd was properly watched. I think it is possible that he didn't willingly give the information up. He is a Wraith but I think he knows that his friendship with us is worth the price of not revealing that information. I think he was forced to reveal that info.

He wasn't apparently since he had the time to hack into the database and access secure information. Him giving away the information willingly or not is a non-issue as if someone was monitoring every action he made on that computer he wouldn't have had it to give away. They had marines guarding him properly, but they wouldn't have known if he was misusing the computer. Mckay needed to check up on him more (their computers should've been side to side at all times so he could glance over) and/or there should've been a scientist looking over Todd's shoulder at all times.

I disagree. In allies they truly didn't know what they would be up against in this case they did. If they had made it to the surface it would have been a huge problem.

In both situations they didn't know what they were up against. All they knew is what Todd knew and all Todd knew was that there was some sort of secure facility. For all they knew, there could've been a larger complex on the surface that surrounded the base so even if they got there they'd still have to fight through military forces or there could've been lockdown protocals (which there were). Regardless, getting the surface would be a huge problem for Earth for the simple reason that running through the woods chasing Wraith down in order to protect their citizens is not the ideal situation. It runs the risk of putting the Stargate program into the light of day and it puts civilians at risk. However, the Wraith are not in this to reveal the Stargate program to the public or to feed on a few people before they are killed. They had no chance of doing enough damage to make this whole exercise worthwhile as there was no chance that any form of victory would come out of this (they would always be killed and cut off, it was just a matter of how long until that happens and how many Humans died in the meantime). The only way they could achieve any form of victory is with ship support...

Wrong. By themselves yes we would have stopped them but once they got to the surface they could tag Earth and then call their fleet to come in which place we would be screwed.

What? Are you kidding? First no signal can reach the Pegasus galaxy from the Milky Way. It is too far even for Asgard technology. At best they "might" be able to reach the Midway station and forward something along, but they did not bring any technology towards that end. Such devices would be large and bulky and should've either came in with the first or second wave as time was critical since the longer you were active the greater chance there was that the SGC would be bombed. Second, the Wraith can find the location of Earth all they want. Without better hyperdrive technology they are still trapped in the Pegasus galaxy.

As I said all they'd need to do is get to the surface then it would have been game over.

Game over for the Wraith. It would've sucked to have to try to come up with cover story for these creatures running around and might not have even been possible. But the military would've hunted them down and blown up the base to prevent any further waves from coming through (the Midway station would've been next). After which they would've dug up the Stargate and moved it to a new facility. The Stargate program would be up and running again a short while later. There's just no way that the Wraith could've sent enough forces through to take and hold anything. Not only did they have no chance of sending that many through before their mode of transport was taken out but you don't go up against a superior military with ground forces alone. The whole thing seemed like a futile exercise as they had no goal other than establishing a beachhead and there was no way they could do that.

[Major_Griff]

What they should have done was said that the macro has an encoded idc in it and when the wormhole connects, It shows the Atlantis idc and Lee opens the iris/shield. Or they could have had a gdo and entered an idc, but then they would have too explain how they got it and why the code was still valid, etc. It really doesn't bother me though, this ep was awesome and I can buy that the military trusted one of their top scientists when he said that the system was impenetrable. In fact, if they had not brought Todd to Midway and allowed him access to computers, the Wraith wouldn't even have known about the system.

My only iris related problem (also one I can get over) with the ep is that Teal'c didn't close the iris at the SCG which would have allowed more Wraith to come through to the SGC had Sheppard and the gang not stopped them.

*EDIT* Post 1100! Wooooo!

[Mitchell82]

I'm the first one to discover that. I in fact posted that earlier.

http://forum.gateworld.net/showthrea...23#post7741223

Vala,

Yeah quite a goof. They used a stock shot computer image.

[JackHarkness_Hot]

I just wanted to add this, that if General Landry was at the SGC Control Room, he would have ordered the Iris to be closed thus the Wraith would have gone splat, however since Landry wasn't there, Walter decided to stare in awe at the rolling ball...




We all know that the midway gates should have had an iris and the GDO would have worked, regardless people saying it's not possible, it is cos it's sci-fi and secondly if it wasn't possible, then in the same account, the Midway wouldn't have got destroyed because it's "not possible" for the characters to be that stupid.. **looking at Kavanagh**

[garhkal]

We have seen before though that the bridge can be hacked, in return part 2 mckay edited his own code to dial from a different gate in the milkyway!

It is one thing having the MAKER of the code hack it, and another to envision others doing the same when it is not common knowledge it even is out there.

Wrong. By themselves yes we would have stopped them but once they got to the surface they could tag Earth and then call their fleet to come in which place we would be screwed.

And how?? The tagging would work for those ships already in subspace scanning range, which i seriously doubt goes that far. Also unless they had ships nearby the tagging could easily be reversed.

It wouldn't have mattered if there was an Iris or not. Why? For the same reason that it didn't matter how secure McKay's dialling program was.

The Wraith didn't actually crack McKay's code. They went to a Stargate that they knew was part of the bridge (via Todd), and they waited there until Atlantis dialled Midway. Then they just connected a keylogger to the gate and waited while McKay's code activated the gate. Then they just pressed Ctrl + C. That's it. A six year old could have done it, and no cracking required. If a GDO signal had been sent through, they would have copied that along with any other signal that was sent through.

THey would still have had to crack the code, by changing the starting point. BUt i do agree, it would be much simpler using a copy n paste like they probabily did.

I just wanted to add this, that if General Landry was at the SGC Control Room, he would have ordered the Iris to be closed thus the Wraith would have gone splat, however since Landry wasn't there, Walter decided to stare in awe at the rolling ball...

That was kind of crummy that a seasoned vet of the SGC such as walter did not realise to shut the iris..

[BubblingOverWithIdeas]

I know. The Midway Station was an idea that could have been explored much further. I am not happy that it got wiped out.

I think that the reason that they destryoed the Midway Station was because they needed to

Spoiler:

clear the set for the design of the Phoenix (new Battlecruiser)

Did you intend to hide that spoiler? Because you in fact bolded it. I've changed the bolding to spoiler text in the quote. This thread isn't marked as a spoiler thread, so there's a chance that people who didn't know that and didn't want to find out in advance, such as Chesnu1, will see it.

It looked like their job was to find some way to get out of the base.. Though were i the one in charge, i would have planeted a bomb of sorts in the gate room to blow the SGC up. That would be a big loss to the people of earth, AND give the wraith a leg up since we would no longer have the capacity to resupply so quickly now with it gone.

True, but then the Wraith wouldn't have a means of getting to Earth. They want to feed on the planet's population.

[Avenger]

Regarding the “previously on” teaser for Midway from season three’s episode, “The Return, Part 1,” NEW Rodney dialogue is included. The line, “The program is completely secure, no need for a shield or an iris” was not in the broadcast episode of “The Return, Part 1,” and if you listen closely, you can hear the drop-off in the sound that possibly indicates the dialogue was edited to include this line.

Somewhat similar to what happened in the fifth season Stargate SG-1 episode, “The Sentinel,” where new video was filmed to show Grieves and Kershaw being taken prisoner at the end of season three’s episode, “Shades of Grey.”

Or the scene/dialog was deleted from the episode in the editing process.

[inta]

I think a bigger blunder in overconfidence was by the wraith in not closing the sgc iris to prevent anyone from following them. they knew the sgc would be clear b/c of their stun bomb, the only possible resistance could come from pegasus/midway.

Also atlantis logically should've dialed earth directly to at least contact earth and let them know about the situation and keep the gate open to prevent the wraith from dialing to earth.

but nitpicking is silly.
episode wasn't totally great on sci fi, but it was still a great episode.

[2ndgenerationalteran]

im not sure if this has been said before here but if there is an iris and it is raised until lowered and some one dials in when some one sends their GDO code through they have to step through without any confirmation that the iris has been lowered. And there is no hesitation if you are incontrol of the iris, your on the clock, if you hesitate the traveler will die, there is no communication telling them that they have to wait because the actions have already been set in motion. Adrift seems to be the plot hole ep where they have a 2 way conversation.

[An-Alteran]

1-No Iris or shield could be used at midway because there would be no way of sending an IDC through before they entered the gate. The IDC and the people comming after would be sent at the same time.
The stargates were linked via a dialing macro. The people were sent to each gate along the trail seperately- there was not a direct connection.

2-The Wraith at the SG-C would never close the Iris behind them for three reasons:
a- They didn't know there was one.
b- They were expecting reinforcements not an assault force.
c- They would have needed to use someones hand-print.

[HyperspaceDaemon]

1-No Iris or shield could be used at midway because there would be no way of sending an IDC through before they entered the gate. The IDC and the people comming after would be sent at the same time.
The stargates were linked via a dialing macro. The people were sent to each gate along the trail seperately- there was not a direct connection.

The episode intro clearly states that Rodney did not find it
*necessary* to have extra security measures , and that
all the other parties involved (IOA, army, etc) blindly believed
that without enforcing any common-sense security measures.
Any attempts to claim that it was not possible to put irises
on midway are pure speculation intended to diminish the
impact of the huge security hole.


Two facts remain :
- the humans were reckless by ignoring any common sense
security rules. Therefore they deserve to be invaded by the
Wraith : not a full-scale invasion, but 50-100 Wraiths feeding
and running freely on the streets would be nice .

- the stargates have a flawed design from the security
point of view : they don't allow the receiver to visualize
what's coming and filter potential risks (for example : it
would be very handy to not materialize the incoming
visitors immediately . And instead analyze who is
coming and maybe even delete their weapons from the
gate's buffers ... )


I fully agree that it's not logical for the Wraiths to close the iris
behind - the plan was to receive reinforcements.