Carson vs. Keller

[Mitchell82]

Even if that were an accurate reflection of Keller, how would any of that make her a bad character?

I love Keller but I can answer I think. My guess is because it's Keller plain and simple.

[prion]

In "Adrift", Weir gets a head injury and Keller says, "There is nothing I can do for her."

In "The Seer" Keller says, "There is nothing I can do for him."

In "Tabula Rasa" Keller says, "I don't know what else to do."

IN "Missing" all Keller does is whine and scream for someone to save her.

Someone please dump this LOSER character! She can't do anything!

What I wouldn't give to have Carson back.

In "The Seer," the diagnosis she made, well, sometimes there isn't anything you can do with advanced cancer, except pallitative care.

In "Tabula Rasa," everybody had amnesia, right? I'm trying to remember

In "Missing," well, yes, the whining was a bit grating

But the main concern is that the writers don't even seem to watch ER. She's competent doing CPR one episode and clueless the next. The doctors have to make her COMPETENT in her medical skills plus handling people when delivering bad news.

[Ripple in Space]

In "Tabula Rasa," everybody had amnesia, right? I'm trying to remember

Lol.

Back on topic... After the biting, I'm thinking Carson just sitting on Keller might knock her out.

[Mitchell82]

In "The Seer," the diagnosis she made, well, sometimes there isn't anything you can do with advanced cancer, except pallitative care.

In "Tabula Rasa," everybody had amnesia, right? I'm trying to remember

In "Missing," well, yes, the whining was a bit grating

But the main concern is that the writers don't even seem to watch ER. She's competent doing CPR one episode and clueless the next. The doctors have to make her COMPETENT in her medical skills plus handling people when delivering bad news.

I think she's quite competent and doe her job well.

[TJuk]

I think its difficult to compare the two characters even though I totally consider Keller to be Beckett's replacement no matter how much the actress protests to the contrary. Keller would not exist without the doctor spot being vacant, hence she is a replacement.

Not saying I would be apposed to seeing them BOTH on the show, but given a choice based purely on the 'character' and cast chemisty, its not even a contest.

Beckett was a believable doctor in age and competitence, he may have whined when out of his comfort zone but he was utterly confident and commanding in his medical skills and that is INCREDBILY important as both a doctor and a CMO. Keller was and is a million miles away from that. She's hesitant and indecisive at first, something that you CAN NOT afford to do as a doctor, its not a good 'image' to project to your patients or staff.

I dont think they've given her the chance to grow into the role, she's not been in it all that much tbh and is often just 'there' as a pretty wallflower. Jewel/Keller just doesn't have the same screen presence or attaction (in the sense of instant connection to the character) that Beckett/Paul did...it may develope with time but she had big shoes to fill and has been very hit with more miss so far.

I do however, strongly believe that Jewel is completely miscast. Age IS a factor because medicine is a field where EXPERIENCE is central to what they do. You cant just say 'she's a genius' (as Gero constantly used to justify the casting) and let it be that. Doctors deal with lives, so trust is central and that has to be EARNED, which takes time especially professionally. I've seen A LOT of people right from day 1 who work in medicine or who are doctors themselves who've said Paul/Carson was a little on the young side so imagine the response to Keller/Jewel!

Keller has a long way to go in terms of character development. Paul had a knack of giving depth to the character with very little, Jewel needs to capitalise more (and frankly the writers need to be cleverer with how they give her that chance). His chemistry with the rest of the cast was natural and not forced (notice they literally tried to replace her into the Beckett/McKay dynamic which IMO failed miserably) and Carson was instantly likable. Making Keller 'hesitant' was a good idea on paper, but in reality made her annoying at best and pathetic at worst.

I also feel strongly about the fact they should have made her a very strong contrast to Beckett in personality. Instead they lazily assumed being female and so young would do it...LAME! If you take out gender and name references when anyone describes Keller, you have (early) Beckett in a nut shell. And that is where she fails horrible.

I'll take Beckett winning by TKO in the opening seconds of round one... KELLER GETS MALKIED and DROPPED!!!! (Malkied = headbutt aka Glasgow kiss in Glaswegian).

[erb]

*applauds another post by TJ*

[Killdeer]

*applauds another post by TJ*

Joins the applause. Great post.

[vaberella]

Again, I support Keller.

I don't deal well with the dead resurrected. Lastly, I haven't said "What the hell is she doing in this scene?" As I would do to Carson (replacing she with 'he') regularly.

Carson's presence on many occasions was unneeded and forced and it made him more and more insignificant overall. They didn't even keep him there like Teyla with his mouth shut. He would have to sit there and say something that just didn't seem necessary.

I liked Carson and all, but really in S3 (not including Sunday and Misbegotten) he was wasted air.

Basically his downfall really began when they made him a regular. Had he stayed a recurring character it would have been better for him and I'd be a tad upset he was killed off. Right, now, I support the change and prefer Keller.
*Oh, I did like him in Phantoms though.

[Killdeer]

I would have the same opinion about Keller that I have now even if there was zero chance that Carson would ever appear on this show again. And I completely agree with TJuk that Jewel was badly miscast in this role.

[jelgate]

Again, I support Keller.?* I don't deal well with the dead resurrected.?* Lastly, I haven't said "What the hell is she doing in this scene?"?* As I would do to Carson (replacing she with 'he') regularly.?*?* Carson's presence on many occasions was unneeded and forced and it made him more and more insignificant overall.?* They didn't even keep him there like Teyla with his mouth shut.?* He would have to sit there and say something that just didn't seem necessary.I liked Carson and all, but really in S3 (not including Sunday and Misbegotten) he was wasted air.Basically his downfall really began when they made him a regular.?* Had he stayed a recurring character it would have been better for him and I'd be a tad upset he was killed off.?* Right, now, I support the change and prefer Keller.*Oh, I did like him in Phantoms though.

I'm sorry,?* but that intelligent comment deserves some green. There were some episodes that were forced. Not every episode requires the use of a medical doctor.

[bluealien]

I think its difficult to compare the two characters even though I totally consider Keller to be Beckett's replacement no matter how much the actress protests to the contrary. Keller would not exist without the doctor spot being vacant, hence she is a replacement.

Not saying I would be apposed to seeing them BOTH on the show, but given a choice based purely on the 'character' and cast chemisty, its not even a contest.

Beckett was a believable doctor in age and competitence, he may have whined when out of his comfort zone but he was utterly confident and commanding in his medical skills and that is INCREDBILY important as both a doctor and a CMO. Keller was and is a million miles away from that. She's hesitant and indecisive at first, something that you CAN NOT afford to do as a doctor, its not a good 'image' to project to your patients or staff.

I dont think they've given her the chance to grow into the role, she's not been in it all that much tbh and is often just 'there' as a pretty wallflower. Jewel/Keller just doesn't have the same screen presence or attaction (in the sense of instant connection to the character) that Beckett/Paul did...it may develope with time but she had big shoes to fill and has been very hit with more miss so far.

I do however, strongly believe that Jewel is completely miscast. Age IS a factor because medicine is a field where EXPERIENCE is central to what they do. You cant just say 'she's a genius' (as Gero constantly used to justify the casting) and let it be that. Doctors deal with lives, so trust is central and that has to be EARNED, which takes time especially professionally. I've seen A LOT of people right from day 1 who work in medicine or who are doctors themselves who've said Paul/Carson was a little on the young side so imagine the response to Keller/Jewel!

Keller has a long way to go in terms of character development. Paul had a knack of giving depth to the character with very little, Jewel needs to capitalise more (and frankly the writers need to be cleverer with how they give her that chance). His chemistry with the rest of the cast was natural and not forced (notice they literally tried to replace her into the Beckett/McKay dynamic which IMO failed miserably) and Carson was instantly likable. Making Keller 'hesitant' was a good idea on paper, but in reality made her annoying at best and pathetic at worst.

I also feel strongly about the fact they should have made her a very strong contrast to Beckett in personality. Instead they lazily assumed being female and so young would do it...LAME! If you take out gender and name references when anyone describes Keller, you have (early) Beckett in a nut shell. And that is where she fails horrible.

I'll take Beckett winning by TKO in the opening seconds of round one... KELLER GETS MALKIED and DROPPED!!!! (Malkied = headbutt aka Glasgow kiss in Glaswegian).

I agree with everything you say.

I like both actors, but the difference for me is that Keller is not believable in anyway as a CMO and Carson was. I agree that Jewel is completely miscast for the role and her biggest obstacle is her age IMO. At best I could believe she is a med student but so far she has not sold me at all on being chief medical officer. I don't understand why tptb couldn't give us someone more appropriate age wise, if they wanted a female CMO. She annoyed me considerably in Missing and I too would have liked for the writers to have done something totally different with her character, and not made her a younger female version of Carson.

Jewel was great as repli-Keller and she would have been fine as a med student, or someone on Carsons team, but so far I just can't take to her at all in the position of CMO.

[erb]

A character just sitting there with their mouth shut isn't wasted air?

As for Keller, I don't wonder so much as to why she is needed in a scene as to why she is needed in this universe. (JS, it could be argued, is needed to pull in the sweaty-palmed male demographic, but JS didn't have to be Keller or this version of Keller.)

[vaberella]

A character just sitting there with their mouth shout isn't wasted air?

It's *shut*. And yes, I don't find it wasted air because I can ignore them and overlook them. Their presence doesn't call my attention. His on the other hand did. When it did I would notice his non-importance in a scene. While, had he not said anything, I'd take him as an extra body.

This is why the extra's don't distract a scene, they're just there in the background with their mouth's shut. If they opened their mouths and said something useless or ineffectual, I would find their presence a waste.

I thought it was pretty easy to understand. Carson became an unimportant entity, unfortunately.

[erb]

It's *shut*. And yes, I don't find it wasted air because I can ignore them and overlook them. Their presence doesn't call my attention. His on the other hand did. When it did I would notice his non-importance in a scene. While, had he not said anything, I'd take him as an extra body.

This is why the extra's don't distract a scene, they're just there in the background with their mouth's shut. If they opened their mouths and said something useless or ineffectual, I would find their presence a waste.

I thought it was pretty easy to understand. Carson became an unimportant entity, unfortunately.

Excuse the typo...yes it is shut. How very nice of you to point that out.

You are basically comparing Teyla to an extra on the set and don't consider that a waste of a character whose actress is in the credits?

No. I don't find your argument easy to understand. Or it may be I totally disagree with you. Even if Carson's contribution was forced, I'd blame the writers, not the character.

[FoolishPleasure]

I think its difficult to compare the two characters even though I totally consider Keller to be Beckett's replacement no matter how much the actress protests to the contrary. Keller would not exist without the doctor spot being vacant, hence she is a replacement.. . . . . . *snip for space*

Excellent post! My thoughts exactly, but you said it better than I could have.