CANON: Sam and Jack are not together! ~Spoilers up to 4x03 "Reunion"~

[FallenAngelII]

Shipperahoy: Viewers of Stargate should be used to biting sarcasm and acerbic language. Atlantis-fans have Rodney. Of course, I'm not as eloquent as him, so I use smaller words.

I hate the idea of Carter in Atlantis because that means Weir is out, but also because her being in Atlantis would mean she left Jack behind.

But, since when, pray tell, cannon has mean anything to us fans ???? In the fanfic universe, Sam and Jack are an item forever and ever.

Canon means squat to me when it comes to my pairings.

After all, I Slash.

But a lot of people go around claiming it's canon that they are together. So I threw together this thread to discuss and challenge that... canonity (based on what "Reunion" revealed).

[dana]

Dude, I think it'd be totally wrong to bring any resolution to S/J relationship (or what people choose to believe is a resolution) in another show. IMO, of course.

[stclare]

Dude, I think it'd be totally wrong to bring any resolution to S/J relationship (or what people choose to believe is a resolution) in another show. IMO, of course.

I have to agree with you here. wouldnt the sg1 movies be the place to either make cannon or at least give the s/j shippers something to build on

also that was a realy old picture of Jack, surely she would have a more recent one

[FallenAngelII]

I have to agree with you here. wouldnt the sg1 movies be the place to either make cannon or at least give the s/j shippers something to build on

also that was a realy old picture of Jack, surely she would have a more recent one

Interestingly enough, not a single supporter of S/J have addressed the fact that it's an old picture despite my bringing it up twice.

Also, that "Might be from Threads"-pic is at least 2 years old by now. Also pretty old.

[Dutch_Razor]

Normal people might take a picture of them together, but normal people wouldn't save the galaxy 10 times over

[dipsofjazz]

Interestingly enough, not a single supporter of S/J have addressed the fact that it's an old picture despite my bringing it up twice.

Perhaps the S/J supporters aren't bothering to answer you because of what you called them in your first post?

Are you one of those sad, sad little people who've been hoping for Jack and Daniel, I mean Sam and Jack to finally get together for years? Well, though luck.

[stclare]

Perhaps the S/J supporters aren't bothering to answer you because of what you called them in your first post?

See now if I were sam i'd have the Jack picture youve got, he looks way better grey and rumpled

[saberhagen83]

Who is to say that photo in her bag is taken off world 10 years ago? You can't really see his jacket, can't see his face clearly, a cap on his head...he could have that anywhere. Plus he appears to be smiling in the pic, so it seems to me he is aware Sam(?) took that photo, so your stalker claim is out the window pretty much. That "could be Threads" photo could also be taken at anytime. I hardly think that has to be the only time she has been at his cabin...or it could simply be a nice memory. Don't you have a few years old photos on your shelf?

But I agree with some posters here. I don't really want to see a possible resolution of S&J on SGA, if it should be done it should be in one of the SG1 movies.

[FallenAngelII]

Who is to say that photo in her bag is taken off world 10 years ago? You can't really see his jacket, can't see his face clearly, a cap on his head...he could have that anywhere. Plus he appears to be smiling in the pic, so it seems to me he is aware Sam(?) took that photo, so your stalker claim is out the window pretty much. That "could be Threads" photo could also be taken at anytime. I hardly think that has to be the only time she has been at his cabin...or it could simply be a nice memory. Don't you have a few years old photos on your shelf?

But I agree with some posters here. I don't really want to see a possible resolution of S&J on SGA, if it should be done it should be in one of the SG1 movies.

We know where that 10 years old picture came from. Some fan enhanced it and it became obvious it was from "Singularity" from season 1. It might not have been off world, though. I don't quite remember. But it's from "Singularity".

I'm not sure (since the picture is so blurry), but the "Might be from 'Threads'"-photo is taken by someone while they're sitting on the bridge. Unless you're claiming they mounted an instamatic on a boat, it was taken by someone else (on one of those fishing trips), so it's not like it was a little romantic 1-on-1.

Anyone who took offense by the original post have to remember that it's quasi-sarcastic and all of the insults are in jest. I've been subjected to too much Rodney lately.

[saberhagen83]

We know where that 10 years old picture came from. Some fan enhanced it and it became obvious it was from "Singularity" from season 1. It might not have been off world, though. I don't quite remember. But it's from "Singularity".

I'm not sure (since the picture is so blurry), but the "Might be from 'Threads'"-photo is taken by someone while they're sitting on the bridge. Unless you're claiming they mounted an instamatic on a boat, it was taken by someone else (on one of those fishing trips), so it's not like it was a little romantic 1-on-1.

Anyone who took offense by the original post have to remember that it's quasi-sarcastic and all of the insults are in jest. I've been subjected to too much Rodney lately.

Even so, if that picture is from "Singularity" it only proves that TPTB simply printed a pic of Jack from a screenshot. Where was a camera in that ep? Cause knowing from what ep it could be from my best guess is it's from that scene where he is holding the dog, or giving it to Cassie.

Same goes for the other one, it's simply a pic taken right out of the episode in that case. It could even have been taken by Daniel or Teal'c, doesn't have to be a romantic pic, simply a nice memory. What does that prove? Other that they didn't bother calling RDA and say "hey, we need a few new shots of you as Jack and with you and Sam together." They took the simple way...

[FallenAngelII]

Even so, if that picture is from "Singularity" it only proves that TPTB simply printed a pic of Jack from a screenshot. Where was a camera in that ep? Cause knowing from what ep it could be from my best guess is it's from that scene where he is holding the dog, or giving it to Cassie.

Same goes for the other one, it's simply a pic taken right out of the episode in that case. It could even have been taken by Daniel or Teal'c, doesn't have to be a romantic pic, simply a nice memory. What does that prove? Other that they didn't bother calling RDA and say "hey, we need a few new shots of you as Jack and with you and Sam together." They took the simple way...

We're looking at this from an in-verse perspective, though, not a Real World perspective.

SJ-shippers are claiming it proof they're together since Sam brought a pic of Jack with her to the Pegasus galaxy. They're using In-verse logic. Hence, I am allowed to use In-verse logic to disprove said theory.

IIRC, there was no camera. My theory is that Stalker-Sam hid a camera in her hair or something and then trigger it when Jack was looking away. Perfectly reasonable In-verse logic based on facts.

As you just said, these pictures prove nothing. I, however, wasn't the one to bring these pictures up. Other people did... as proof that they're together. They don't prove anything.

And have the PTB never heard of Photoshop? They must have as there are some horrendously bad Photoshop jobs used as promo photos for season 4.

[Ripple in Space]

Why is this important? Because no sane person would elect to get shipped off to another galaxy when they've got a perfectly fine job back on Earth + a guy who loves them (especially not if it took 8 years to snare said guy!). Especially not indefinitely.

Lol, Sam is a 30-minute gate-trip (or 4-second if she thought it neccessary) from Earth. The average morning work-commute is more than that .

[saberhagen83]

Sure it doesn't prove anything, not yours or the shippers statement...so it's still not cannon on either side. But why can't the J&S shipper belive what they want to belive? If they see that pic as a sort of a comfirmation, let them. If you don't belive it then, fine. But this isn't a discussion is it, considering you are always trying to twist it back to what you see, why can't the shippers see it from their own point of view? It's the exact same thing, just the other way around.

And that pic cannot be taken by a hidden cam in Sam's hair or whatever...the angle doesn't match. It's taken from the right (slightly) at Jack's height, and she was sitting to the left in that scene.

[FallenAngelII]

Sure it doesn't prove anything, not yours or the shippers statement...so it's still not cannon on either side. But why can't the J&S shipper belive what they want to belive? If they see that pic as a sort of a comfirmation, let them. If you don't belive it then, fine. But this isn't a discussion is it, considering you are always trying to twist it back to what you see, why can't the shippers see it from their own point of view? It's the exact same thing, just the other way around.

Which brings me back to the fact that I didn't bring them up. I never used them to prove they aren't together. Other people did, claiming it proves they're together and I had to refute said claims by presenting reasons why they don't prove anything, really. For all we know, they prove she's a stalker (hidden camera).

The photos were never a part of my original thesis and I haven't once stated that the photos prove they're not together. I've, however, stated that they do not prove that they together.

And that pic cannot be taken by a hidden cam in Sam's hair or whatever...the angle doesn't match. It's taken from the right (slightly) at Jack's height, and she was sitting to the left in that scene. [/QUOTE]
Hidden camera in a tree which she'd rigged beforehand? She's even sneakier than I gave her credit for!

[Nikki]

Yes, but how often did that happen? You don't take days off on random because you feel like if when you're in such a position.

Actually they do have scheduled days off, I remember Sheppard saying it in an episode.

If it's not military, then Sam has no duty. She's a soldier and a scientist. She has no duty to a civilian operation making a request that she takes over as leader.

But she does have a duty to her country, planet and the Stargate program as a whole.

I'm sorry, the Air Force a lot to do with Atlantis? Obviously you've missed a few episodes as I'm not even if sure if the majority of the military personnel on Atlantis are Air Force. And they are hardly in the majority overall compared to the civilians.

Aren't half the personnel military? As they still need teams to go off-world like the SGC.

Career, schmareer. Sam's already gotten to Colonel before turning 40. Also, she's already done things most people could never even dream of. It's not like making General is gonna make her life much, much better. She felt, after all, that she was leaving everything behind.

Well, you don't go into the AF thinking "oh yeh, once I hit Col I'll just quit - that's good enough" - you may think so but Carter's a lot more determined, dedicated and loyal than that.

Let's see... further your career by running a civilian operation vs. friends, family, possible boyfriend/fiancée?

Sometimes, something’s are more important than what you want.

Yes, and this would make things "Complicated", how? Sam told Martouf "It was complicated" in "Ripple Effect" (I think that's when).

It would be complicated because she probably doesn't get to see Jack very often and they can't exactly publicise their relationship because some bas****s are gonna think that 'she slept her way to the top', no matter how much she's proved herself and achieved.

An even greater number of fans don't. Because of how poorly pairing's been written.

I'm sorry but what proof do you have of this statement?

And it doesn't matter if a great number of fans want it. Doesn't make the storylines, story arcs and facts change.

Exactly, I don't see your point.

After all, in 75% of the time, all of the shipping moments in Stargate-history on the part of O'Carter has come from Sam. It's almost always Sam angsting over Jack and their "might-be".

Actually as quite a dedicated Sam/Jack shipper, I probably know the shippy moments a whole lot better than you do and Jack's actually far more obvious about his feelings for her than she is about her feelings for him.

We've never seen Jack go ballistic because Sam's missing. We've never seen Jack break off relationships because of Jack.

Did you watch 'Grace'?

And now there's the 10 years old photo she took of him off-world when he wasn't paying attention and looking the other way.

The stalker-theory might hold more water than you give it credit for.

If it turns out Sam's a stalker I will actually come out to wherever you live and actually give a personal apology as I can tell you with an almost 100% certainty that Sam is not a stalker.

And did you just insult stalkers everywhere by indicating all stalkers are ugly and stupid? Stalkers stalk because they're delusional, not because they're pathetic losers who can't find anyone (well, some of them might, but those were probably pathetic losers before becoming stalkers).

I have no problem insulting stalkers...they should be locked up. And if you support them and what they're doing then maybe you should get some help of your own.

Yes, but if they really wanted to tell us they were together, they'd take one just for the occasion. Or at least a promotional shot... one that isn't 10 years old.

Or, they're just giving us hints and don't want to give us confirmation here. I mean not every SG1 fan is going to watch Atlantis...they'll probably do it in 'Continuum'.

They're not touching in any way. There are pictures of Sam and Jack together. It must mean they're together. I looks like they're by Jack's cabin. Could be from "Threads" (and who took that picture, anyway? They were hardly alone on a romantic vacation). Proves nothing. Or must I pull out the Jack/Daniel pics?

The pictures are in her office, facing everyone that comes in...I wouldn't even put such personal pictures as the ones your describing (romantic vacation) for everyone (esp people under my command) to see.

Dude, I think it'd be totally wrong to bring any resolution to S/J relationship (or what people choose to believe is a resolution) in another show. IMO, of course.

I have to agree with you here. wouldn’t the sg1 movies be the place to either make cannon or at least give the s/j shippers something to build on

also that was a realy old picture of Jack, surely she would have a more recent one

I agree, Atlantis should not resolve the Sam/Jack relationship (that's what the movies are for )...however hints are more than welcome.

And I have loads of pictures of friends, family and loved ones that are old...some older than ten years in fact because they have such fond memories attached.

Interestingly enough, not a single supporter of S/J have addressed the fact that it's an old picture despite my bringing it up twice.

Also, that "Might be from Threads"-pic is at least 2 years old by now. Also pretty old.

I'm not looking at this from a 'inverse PoV' because it's quite obvious that this was just another hint from TPTB about Sam/Jack and they didn't think anyone would over-analyse the fact that the picture was a little old. But if you need an answer from an 'inverse PoV' as well then see my above answers about the pics.

And if the pics aren't meant to prove anything then why doesn't she have pictures of her with Daniel, Teal'c, Jacob, Cassie, Janet etc? And in her quarters why does she have a picture of only Jack?

And try to come up with something a little more plausible then 'Oh Sam's a stalker!'