Atlantis Cast Changes

[PG15]

And the fact that you say TPTB shouldn't listen to the fans, just tells me you are an elitist and pompous fanboy of the status quo. I suppose public outcry about corporate crime and the war in Iraq is just immaturity by the public in your opinion as well. Such a fatalistic attitude. How sad.

I find this highly ironic, considering most of the complaints made about the cast change right now is in favor of keeping the status quo.

Bravo! It seems some are soo quick to protect TPTB and the Actors and where is the protection for the Fans.You cannot have a TV Show without the Fans.

True, but there is no "The Fans" (or as I like to call them, The Fans[tm]). There is only a group of people cut out of the rest of the population. At any moment that group can include both you and me, just you, just me, or neither.

The point being, a fanbase doesn't have a set of fixed criteria of what it likes; it continues to shift from one to another given the type of people now being included in said group. Therefore, ideas considered bad by the group could quickly be turned into good if the group population shifts for whatever reason.

This is the reason why I think saying "the fans hate this" or "the fans will do this" kind of meaningless. If we don't do it, somebody will.

We watch the Shows and we buy the DVD's.We have a voice and are the real TPTB.

I'm sorry, but that's just illusions of grandeur. Nobody told us to buy the DVDs, we chose to spend the money, we chose to invest the time and effort into it. Again, if some of us didn't, other people would've. TPTB owes us nothing except for what they usually do, give us entertainment that we can like or dislike.

And I find that last line quite perplexing, and a little bit insulting. I doubt we can make a show left alone, and without the show, we're just...normal people.

[ChillinTheMost]

...there is a difference between the majority of Stargate viewers and online fans. Online fans are viewers but most viewers are not online fans.

Forums are not that great a representation of the viewership for any TV show.

In the US, first-run Stargate episodes gather over a million viewers a week. Check out the "views" on the longer forum threads. The forum "views" are a running count, meaning the count does not reset every week.

We are not a mirror for Stargate fandom. We are a mirror for online fandom.

Most viewers, even the regular ones, only think about Stargate long enough to tune in or set a timer. Those viewers, casual by definition, roll with the punches or disappear without a peep.

Online fans have no idea what those viewers want or think.

Online fans can't even speak for other online fans.

Look at this forum.

There's an anti-Beckett and an anti-Weir thread right below the Save Weir and Save Beckett threads.

Since conflict is usually the result of unmet unexpecations, I'm finding it interesting that a portion of online fans believe his or her voice is a reflection of all or many Stargate fans, even though there are fans on the thread right below the one on which they are posting pushing the opposite point.

If the PTBs used online fandom to chart a course for the franchise, the direction of the show would circle itself, zig zag, double back and stall (from time to time) in myopia.

And now online fandom gets a lovely treat to fans complaining about fans complaining.

I don't need to stop the complaining. If the PTBs were listening, I still wouldn't care. Fandom isn't about the PTBs. It's about fans interacting with fans. What am I basing that on? (1) Clearly, there's no one else listening, and (2) it's what online fans do.

One thing sticks with me, though. Forget about being good to others. If a fan is setting his or her keyboard on fire all day, that fan is not being good to himself or herself.

Please excuse letter writing campaigns from this opinion: snail-mail letter writing campaigns are a pain and they cost money and for both reasons attract attention at networks and studios. But they are purposed acts with track records and they require thought and direction in order to be successful. By definition, they are positive.

If at the end of the day all this angst is darkening a fan's day and the fan's once beloved happy place is a thorn the fan is struggling to work out of his or her system, at least be honest about where it's going.

The show will air, and while it airs, you will watch. But you won't like what you see.

Until you (1) do like it, or (2) give up and stop watching.

Other than that, the wailing if it is kept in perspective is just a roundabout way to get over disappointment.

Very nicely written. I agree.

...with two minor exceptions: "Forget about being good to others." If you meant "forget about trying to tell other posters about being good to others because it won't do any good" than I can agree. It is generally futile. But it is a nice idea for us to individually be good to others.
and "The show will air, and while it airs, you will watch." is a little too definite. There may be some that will not watch.

But, while those two things were nitpicky, I want to point them out before I say, other than that, I totally agree with your post. Very well written.

Also:
Fans are important and are generally listened to, however, it is ultimately "their" show [their = TPTB] to make as best as they see fit. It is our decision whether to watch or not. Sure, voice our opinions, sing it to the heavens, but don't be deluded into thinking that we should have the final say of what is produced, only on what we watch.

[expendable_crewman]

Very nicely written. I agree.

...with two minor exceptions: "Forget about being good to others." If you meant "forget about trying to tell other posters about being good to others because it won't do any good" than I can agree. It is generally futile. But it is a nice idea for us to individually be good to others.
and "The show will air, and while it airs, you will watch." is a little too definite. There may be some that will not watch.

But, while those two things were nitpicky, I want to point them out before I say, other than that, I totally agree with your post. Very well written.

Also:
Fans are important and are generally listened to, however, it is ultimately "their" show [their = TPTB] to make as best as they see fit. It is our decision whether to watch or not. Sure, voice our opinions, sing it to the heavens, but don't be deluded into thinking that we should have the final say of what is produced, only on what we watch.

"Forget about being good to others" was meant to mean that while being good to others is up there on the "nice things to do" scale, it's more important to be good to yourself. My apologies if this sounds too ... um ... self-help-ish.

The "you will watch" part was followed by a BIG "until" which was important to me. My meaning was "you will watch until you like what you see or stop watching." There's no meaning whatsoever in the order, so I used the word "or."

I'm referring to fans who are upset but stay and the ones who are upset and leave.

Hope that clears it up.

Have you ever seen this trend in online fandom: A poster gets peeved, threatens never to watch, at which point the fans reading with feel empathy, indifference, or annoyance. Some of the fans make good on the promise and disappear from online fandom. They may even leave the show, I wouldn't know. Others remain and either get over it or continue to express disappointment.

There are posters in online fandom who stay peeved and they still watch. If they stopped watching, they couldn't post. A new ep airs and there they go. There are posters on this forum who have been peeved or upset for as long as I've been on this board, which is about seven months. Every so often I'll read that they are quitting the show. They're still here, and more power to them, if that's what they want to do.

I'm one who believes Ye Olde Remote trumps a PTB every time, at least in my own living room.

[Wormhole]

I’ve seen in a lot of threads that people aren’t happy with the changes (myself included). So I thought I’d bring it down to one question.

Do you want the cast changes?

Me no , as far as I'm concerned there was nothing wrong with what they had and I wish we could have it back to the good old times (Season One).

[J_B]

The problems comes that it doesn't really matter if they are wanted or not! Because Bridge Studios will do what they want to do when they want to do it. It's as simple as that!

They make the show that they want to see, sometimes it's exactly what fans want to see, more often than not, it's far off what the fans want.

At the end of the day, there is nothing that can be done about it. They took SG-1 in a similar direction with the reset button, they're now doing the exact same thing with Atlantis & I honestly can't see it paying off for them.

I can see it getting cancelled this season, but if it does make it to S5. Then I really can see that being the last. Then they'll chuck out more DVD movies for Atlantis like they're doing with SG-1 to tie up all the many loose ends that were left.

Of course, what do I know, I'm only a little fan, they're professionals. So they obviously know the best way to take 'their' show forward to the next level.

[ussrelativity]

Once I know more about the next season, I may be a little more accepting of it, but I will never accept the loss of Carson.

[Integrabyte]

I’ve seen in a lot of threads that people aren’t happy with the changes (myself included). So I thought I’d bring it down to one question.

Do you want the cast changes?

Me no , as far as I'm concerned there was nothing wrong with what they had and I wish we could have it back to the good old times (Season One).

Was it necessary to open another topic? People seem to complain in the other 5 topics concerning this subject....

[PG15]

I'll put this as simple as I can: I don't know.

Having not seen the actual, creative effects of such changes in much detail, it's pointless to make any kind of solid judgments.

IMHO, of course.

[Hatcheter]

I say sure. Keep the show dynamic and fresh.

[ussrelativity]

I say sure. Keep the show dynamic and fresh.

I think that with having an episode dedicated to each character would go a long way to improving the show. Too bad there's only 20 episodes for Season 4.

[nonniemous]

Very, very unimpressed with the loss of Paul and the 'demotion' of Torri to recurring. It just seems like someone among TPTB won't back the existing product, and thinks that bringing Amanda in will boost ratings. I personally don't think it'll make up for the number of people who'll stop watching because of the loss of Paul and Torri...

Word. That's the only way I can see any of this making sense, that someone in the ozone levels at Bridge doesn't like Atlantis--and obviously either doesn't understand the product they started out to make, or want to understand it.

It very much seems that, given how SGA has struggled this past year especially, this so-called "soft reset" button is simply an attempt to repackage SGA as closely to SG1's format, content, and style as possible and return to "what worked" on that particular show--with the addition of a HAWT young actress to pull in a certain segment of the male demographic. (Hey, it evidently worked with Vala on SG1--if not Freya/Anise--so let's try it again on SGA.) Hence the completely ill-advised and, in PM's case, horrendously executed cast changes. Too bad this particular PTB, whomever it is, evidently is not interested in returning to "what worked" so brilliantly overall for SGA in Season 1, and even sporadically in the last two seasons.

The cast changes are simply the latest in a long line of increasingly egregious sins against SGA by TPTB, and are, in my opinion, the most unforgivable. Given that M&M have evidently been de facto show runners since Season 2, and that's when I see most of the current problems beginning, why bother to hang around and see what hay they make of Season 4, when they're actually completely in charge?

[ussrelativity]

The cast changes are simply the latest in a long line of increasingly egregious sins against SGA by TPTB, and are, in my opinion, the most unforgivable. Given that M&M have evidently been de facto show runners since Season 2, and that's when I see most of the current problems beginning, why bother to hang around and see what hay they make of Season 4, when they're actually completely in charge?

The more we can have the producers listen to us, the better we can make the show. If they know how the fan base will react now, I hope that from now on, the show will run better. What's really needed now, is better promotion.

[Wormhole]

Was it necessary to open another topic? People seem to complain in the other 5 topics concerning this subject....

Hence bringing it into one topic, so we can all have a good old moan or cheer. Which ever you choose .

[sueKay]

I big huge, NO from me thank you.

[Team SG-1*save the show*]

NO

they should keep carson- sunday is airing next week in the UK and i really dont want beckett to be gone. i think we should keep fighting. it worked with daniel jackson and i supported that too. hopefully beckett WILL return in season 4.

BRING BACK BECKETT AND KEEP WEIR AS LEADER

The good old days-the original team