The Pro TPTB thread

[vaberella]

Sorry, I don't agree. If you set aside an hour of your time to watch something, or if you remember to set your TIVO to record something, then you are a fan. The only difference between on-line and off-line fans is the level of involvement . . .and the fact that off-line fans won't fight changes they believe to be detrimental to the show . . . they will simply stop watching. As a former casual viewer, I know I nearly did. Watching Elizabeth and Teyla gazing adoringly at Lucius was almost more than my poor stomach could handle. I didn't even watch the next episode as an act of defiance. I came back eventually, but I remain wary. LOL.

From what I can gather, Jenks is right. Fans are made up of the fandom base. You even differentiate the level of involvement---fans ARE made up of those who go out there and buy the dvd's or who are pretty active in what's going on and keep on top of the actions of the producers. An example, I was a fan of X-Files, but although I watched Buffy religiously for 3 seasons I was just a viewer. I was not as fanatical to Buffy as to X-Files or now, SGA.

Further more, you've moved from being a casual viewer to being a fan and participating in the fandom aspect. Jenks is right to say that it's small compared to the large number of viewers out there. This site of a few active hundred don't compare to the millions who tune in.

I do think people in fandom seem to have this twisted sense of entitlement which is silly to me. You can't expect them to please all of the people. I have been to many forums where people have called out for the death of each of the characters of SGA (in frequent posts)---if TPTB listented to these people the show would get cancelled. This is exactly what caused the downfall of Roswell...good premise and great idea. But fandom ran amok and was dictating the direction---because the writers were depending on the ratings. Despite their efforts, they ended in what? 3 seasons?! The show became a mess because FANDOM became so involved and the writers paid attention to all the loud mouthed people out there, who they probably determined spoke for the majority.

I think the writers are doing the best they can and giving the best they can with what they have. We as fans cannot expect them to LISTEN and follow through with what fandom or what those of us in fandom say. I may make it a point to express my feelings about a show in hopes the writers get a viewpoint on what one fan says if they read it...but I'm under no delusion that they should be listening to me, since I don't speak for millions but for one.

[Madeleine]

Hi Nowvoyager, I see that you're saying that there should be respect on both sides and I don't disagree.

I think that TPTB, on the whole (and give or take a few of the more heated exchanges between Joe and his more ardent... 'commentators') know that viewers pay their salaries.

I don't think this thread is here to deify TPTB or absolve them in perpetuity of any criticism from anyone for any thing. I think it's here because...

Hmm - why am *I* here in this thread?

I'm here because although I have cringed at some of the decisions TPTB have made, and winced at lines of dialogue, and even written a very scathing review of an episode I really hated, the fact is that even if TPTB make three more series all of which I hate, they have written around 180 episodes of really enjoyable television.

Even if they had only ever made 10 or 12 eps I liked, that's still more than I've done for them, and more than the makers of Big Brother or WWE or Dawson's Creek ever managed for me.

Do I feel like attacking TPTB themselves or impuning their motives when they make 'bad' decisions? Never: I've never attacked TPTB of all the rubbish that I don't watch, so why would I attack TPTB of THIS show?

And yet people do. TPTB of SG get attacked by people who would not dream of attacking TPTB of shows they actually like *less*. It's as if once a team of TV programme makers make stuff that people like, they have some sort of duty to keep on making the stuff that those same people like. It's as if those people have a right to perpetual entertainment tailored for them from the pens of anyone who ever managed to entertain them for one short while.

TPTB of SG-1 have written great stuff, and brought it to the screen well. Because of that, no matter how much rubbish they produce in addition to the good stuff, I feel they deserve my respect.

That's JMO: I'm not sure why anyone else is here. But, Nowvoyager, I hope that makes some sense

[PG15]

Guys, I'd like to play devil's advocate here. I think you've got it backwards. To paraphrase . . . TPTB serve at the pleasure of the fans. These guys get paid a fair amount of money to indulge their fantasies, based on the premise that enough people will want to watch those fantasies play out on the screen.

TPTB don't operate in a vacuum. The fans drive the ratings and the DVD sales, watch the movies, attend the cons, buy the decoder rings, etc. If fans didn't watch, TPTB would be indulging their fantasies in somebody's garage using Star Wars figurines. They should be thanking the fans for watching (and buying), not treating fans like a necessary evil. If they are going to put a product out there, they better be able and willing to accept criticism for what they do with (or to) that product. After all, the fans have the ultimate power . . . the off switch.

Granted some fans take it to the extreme, but they are few and far between. Just because they are the loudest doesn't mean they speak for all, or any, besides themselves. From my perspective, there's plenty of criticism to be had on both sides of the aisle.

Just my opinion.

Slightly out of place in a "Pro" thread, aren't you? Following the rules I learned the hard way about Pro and Anti thread, I am required to red you.

(obviously, I won't)

Ok, I'll bite. I'll just whip out my old argument on The Fans[tm]. See, as far as I'm concerned, there are no "the fans". The term "fan" is an adjective describing someone who likes the same stuff as the writers (since they themselves like what they're writing).

There are no coherant group of "fans", it's merely a "net", if you will that is cast over some group of people that like the show, and people go in and out of it all the time depending what the writers put out. As such, we really have zero reason to demand them anything since we are not a monolithic voice.

[nowvoyager908]

Slightly out of place in a "Pro" thread, aren't you? Following the rules I learned the hard way about Pro and Anti thread, I am required to red you.

(obviously, I won't)

Ok, I'll bite. I'll just whip out my old argument on The Fans[tm]. See, as far as I'm concerned, there are no "the fans". The term "fan" is an adjective describing someone who likes the same stuff as the writers (since they themselves like what they're writing).

There are no coherant group of "fans", it's merely a "net", if you will that is cast over some group of people that like the show, and people go in and out of it all the time depending what the writers put out. As such, we really have zero reason to demand them anything since we are not a monolithic voice.

Okay, point taken about it being a pro thread. I'll scoop up my toys and go play somewhere else. LOL.

Though to be fair, I wasn't trying to be "pro" or "con", just balanced.

[DivineLight]

Thank you for starting this thread. I'm a converted convert. I've enjoyed Stargate since season 8. Late blummer maybe but I was able to watch 8 seasons in a row at my pace (which mean 3-4 eps a night). It was a blast. Since then I've had to endure commercials and bullsh*t ads from SciFi, not to mention spoilers but I read them of my own freewill. At any rate an opinion grew and I was guiltly of bashing the writers. I have since realized the shows are entertainment I choose to watch or not. If enough people stop watching it will get canceled. But at the end of the day it's not my place to tell the writers what to do. They could go an infinite number of different ways with the show, but this is how it went. Hopefully it will keep going in some form. It has to change or it will become stagnant. So hears a thank you to all the writers.

DK

[SGFerrit]

I didn't even watch the next episode as an act of defiance. I came back eventually, but I remain wary. LOL.

You missed some excellent episodes then.

[Mitchell82]

The way I look at it is similar to what Madaline said. First TPTB know we pay their salaries, so they are trying to please the fans and while I do support most of their decisions they are under no obligation to please us. They write a story and make decisions based on characters they established and decide what route to take. They don't need nor will they ask us if we approve. In general I agree with their decisons, and the only one I havent is carson and Daniel but in both cases they have "seen the light" so to speak. Also there are several groups of fans and it is impossible to please them all. IMO they have in general made wise decisions and I feel the same about the current direction they are headed in season 4. Also IMO it is unfair to say that "they suck at stories" or "this is a dumb move", or "TPTB are killing the show". B/C they aredoing what they feel is best for the show and in reality they won't please us all. So I realise they may make decisions that don't please us all but they do deserve our respect as IMO they have 10 years of quality televison under their belt and know what they are doing.