The Olive Branch to the Sam Fans (Season 4 spoilers)

[Night Spring]

"catipulating"? "taking things lying down"? Maybe it's a cultural differnce, but to me, those concepts don't even come into play in an honest and respectful exchange of opinions. These concepts assume that there is an "other side" who is trying to bend you to their will. And going into a discussion assuming that such an "other side" exists is likely to lead to a self-fulfilling prophecy -- you are assuming an inherently antagonistic stance where none may be necessary in the first place, which is likely to evoke antagonism in others in response.

[FallenAngelII]

"catipulating"? "taking things lying down"? Maybe it's a cultural differnce, but to me, those concepts don't even come into play in an honest and respectful exchange of opinions. These concepts assume that there is an "other side" who is trying to bend you to their will. And going into a discussion assuming that such an "other side" exists is likely to lead to a self-fulfilling prophecy -- you are assuming an inherently antagonistic stance where none may be necessary in the first place, which is likely to evoke antagonism in others in response.

Are you claiming that my discussions with both sides in this thread haven't been respectful and honest?

What have I said that's been disrespectful and/or dishonest? I offered an olive branch to show that while I oppose the changes, I still like the character.

I have no problems with Sam crossing over. I do, however, have a problem with the manner in which she's crossing over. And while I stay respectful and honest, I still discuss the negative points about that (in a respectful and honest way).

Your previous post makes it seem like if you want to offer an olive branch, you cannot, under any circumstances, discuss things with the opposing side(s).

Also, notice that I didn't argue against every single person or every single point brought up. Only those I disagreed with or felt I could add to.

[Night Spring]

Are you claiming that my discussions with both sides in this thread haven't been respectful and honest?

What have I said that's been disrespectful and/or dishonest?

Well. ParadoxRealities wrote a long and thoughtful post, starting with:

yes, it's different. but lets stop playing victim. we both got screwed over,

And then you responded:

ParadoxRealities: I won't comment on the rest of your post because the first paragraph bored me. Do you know why AT didn't appear in those first 5 eps except for short periods of time and through a video-phone screen? She was pregnant.

You said you found their post boring, and questioned their knowledge of the history of the show. That doesn't strike me as respectful at all. Or sincerely trying to "offer an olive branch," which is what I took ParadoxRealities as doing when he/she said "we both got screwed over." But instead of accepting that branch, you appear to belittle their opinion by saying it was "boring" and questioning their knowledge.

[FallenAngelII]

He offered up disinformation, so I ignored the rest of the post. I do that with everyone. It's not a practice I only do to people with opposing views. Why should I read past the first paragraph when 90% of it is disinformation? It's not out of disrespect (entirely). In threads like these, 100's of posts are made daily. You don't read all of them. You read those that interest you.

His stopped being interesting after he wrote about the Sam debacle.

[Night Spring]

He offered up disinformation, so I ignored the rest of the post. I do that with everyone. It's not a practice I only do to people with opposing views.

He attacked the inclusion of Vala (on my favourite characters) by proxy by claiming that was the reason why Sam got shafted.

Okay, as I recall, AT took maternity leave, and Vala was introduced to "hold the seat" while AT was away. Originally, once AT/Sam was back, Vala was supposed to be written out of the show, never to return, or to make only occasional guest appearances. Instead, Vala rejoined the show in the 10th season as a full-time cast member, and, from what I understand, many people feel that she has taken screen time away from Sam.

Now, you may not agree with this assessment of the situation, and that is your right. But if other people feel that Sam "got shafted" by Vala, then that is a valid opinion, and they are entitled to it. By calling it "disinformation," you are being disrespectful and belittling of their opinion.

And in any case, by bringing your need to defend Vala into a thread that's supposed to be about finding the common ground between Sam fans and Weir fans, you are defeating the purpose of this thread. If you are truly serious about offering an olive branch, then we need to find a common ground for *all* fans. Otherwise, if people are allowed to freely "defend" their favorites against accusations of shafting other characters, this thread would soon denegrate into mud-slinging over Daniel taking time away from Sam, Rodney taking time away from everyone else, Ronon getting bashed by Ford supporters.... You get the idea.

[FallenAngelII]

But Sam got shafted after Vala was written "out". And by Cam, not Vala. Say what you will about Vala, Cam shafted Sam in season 9. In season 10, it's dual shafting, sure. But he places sole blame on Vala.

Besides, never once did I claim that Sam didn't get shafted or that it wasn't a bad thing. Vala is not the sole reason for Sam getting shafted, however. Heck, we could blame Daniel. How many Daniel-centric episodes did seasons 9 and 10 (so far) not have?

[Skydiver]

And since this thread has turned into yet another 'what's wrong with atlantis in season four' thread, i see no need for it.

We already have plenty of threads to discuss what is right or wrong with season four