Season 4 & Dr. Weir Discussion Thread ( Spoilers)

[the dancer of spaz]

I hope not, Woolsey is a good character imo.

I agree. Woolsey is definitely a good character.

But wouldn't it be cool if

Spoiler:

Weir was compromised somehow, or was forced to work for the IOA?

[vaberella]

I agree. Woolsey is definitely a good character.

But wouldn't it be cool if

Spoiler:

Weir was compromised somehow, or was forced to work for the IOA?

Why would she be forced to work for the IOA? They basically told her she was made crap decisions. Besides Woolsey, they didn't even seem to like her much.

[queerofatlantis]

i dont think atlantis should be totally militerized, Weirs role in atlantis is a tough one and handled well, and making big decisions as a civvy ordering military personel cant be easy.

[Suzotchka]

Why would she be forced to work for the IOA? They basically told her she was made crap decisions. Besides Woolsey, they didn't even seem to like her much.

To say that she made bad decisions and that no one likes her is ridiculous. Sure, no one is perfet.

If the IOA didn't like her, she would've been gone a long time ago. But she has everyones support - even Landry. And she has her teams respect. We know she has John's since he's defended her.

As for her decisions, she makes her decisions based on her teams recommendations. So I guess that means that John, Teyla and the rest of them made bad decisions/recommendations too.

[Southern Red]

To say that she made bad decisions and that no one likes her is ridiculous. Sure, no one is perfet.

If the IOA didn't like her, she would've been gone a long time ago. But she has everyones support - even Landry. And she has her teams respect. We know she has John's since he's defended her.

As for her decisions, she makes her decisions based on her teams recommendations. So I guess that means that John, Teyla and the rest of them made bad decisions/recommendations too.

ITA with what you just said. The many discussions of whether or not Weir's decisions were bad have gone on ad nauseum. It's time to agree that some people think that she was a bad leader and others think she was a good leader. All of us can quote lines and bring up things in the show to back up our opinions.

The character of Weir was never intended to be perfect, and neither was any other character on the show. How interesting would that be? The whole idea is that they have collectively done things that made the whole situation worse. At every turn it has been stated that Weir has the support of the President. She has been written as an experienced leader and negotiator who is well respected and trusted by the leaders of Earth.

The fact that TPTB have decided to remove her from the show in S4 has little to do with anything that has gone before. The writers are the ones who in S3 chose to make her less a part of the action. It was a creative decision that they made for their own reasons, and it will remain to be seen what effect it has on the show.

[majortrip]

Why would she be forced to work for the IOA? They basically told her she was made crap decisions. Besides Woolsey, they didn't even seem to like her much.

The IOA doesn't like anyone.

I think they were hostile to Dr. Weir because the IOA thinks of Earth's situation first, whereas Elizabeth has to take into account Atlantis itself, Pegasus galaxy, AND Earth. After Woolsey stuck around to observe what duress the decisions by Atlantis' leadership were made, he went back and convinced the IOA that he didn't think a replacement would've been any better at that point in time.

I cannot think of a reason why Dr. Weir would be forced to work for the IOA, nor can I think of a reason she'd want to work for an organization whose ideals clash so much with her own. After all, they removed her in The Return, too. Well, the Ancients did, but no one went to the mat on her behalf and instead installed one on their own members.

I have no idea what season 4 holds in store for her, but I will say I hope the aftermath of her removal, however it happens, is portrayed better than that of another character who exited. If they gloss over it, I think I'll be mightily disappointed.

[elbo]

To say that she made bad decisions and that no one likes her is ridiculous.

I agree that most of her decisions are based on others recomandations, because she cannot came up with anything intersesting. But there are some times when she ignore everyone's opinion and put the city in danger and even Earth. Remember "First Strike" when she contact the Replicators despite the ovious, to try and negociate and almost infected Atlantis systems with a virus durring this process? How more stupid can this character get? After all past episode in SGA and SG1 when the Replicators have been encoutered, how someone thinks that a negociation between humans and Replicators can be possible? And what is with the oppisition to the Apollo's mission, when the Replicators were building so many ships with a ovious purpose?

I'm sorry but Weir's naivity and peacemaker background do not fit in SGA context, where we have some real threats: the Wraith and the Replicators which are predators in nature (first by instinct, second by ideology) and the Genii which are a terorist nations, preocupied only by taking hostages and exchange them for equipment. I'm not saying that a civilian should not be leading the City's activity, the civilian personnel, scientists, but Weir leads a expedition, which include the military activity, the opportunity of off-world missions, for which she has neither the qualification, neither the talent or experience. Unfortunately the writers came up too late in my opinion with reducing her character, after 3 seasons in which Weir have been developed and consumed a lot of screen time only to walk in contradiction with other characters and the very spirit of what Stargate series trying to transmit, which is about taking chances, going into unknown, imagination, ideas, etc. Weir have nothing of it.

Of course the writers are trying to suggest a bound of respect between Weir and Sheppard or Rondey, even making from Rodney some kind of Weir's fanboy, which is stupid and false. This relation cannot be felt, because is purely artificial. None of Weir's past actions could have lead to earning other's characters respect or admiration for this blury character.

I'm also very often the feeling that i watch SG Weir instead of SG Atlantis, even when the city is submerging from all the characters that could be choosen, the producer choose to show Weir going into balcony and admiring something that she has no part in doing it. Weir is probably the reason for why the Wraith have been forgoten in season 3 or Carson killed, both threating to undermine Weir's popularity and screen time.

[tar21]

I don't like Weir. Her character is terrible. She's the lamest leader in science fiction.

The role was miscast and she's written the wrong way. She's too bureaucratic and is played a bit too cocky. Kind of annoying. Pulls rank when it doesn't make sense. Higginson plays her like a high school principal and not like the civilian leader of some militarized expedition.

If Carter is only on the show for 1 season, they'd better make Woolsey the new leader of the expedition.

He seems more like the type. Oh yeah, he's a former spy. As a former spook he would give them an extra edge.

[vaberella]

To say that she made bad decisions and that no one likes her is ridiculous. Sure, no one is perfet.

I never said that no one likes Weir. I said that the IOA didn't look like they liked Weir. Read the quote. I really have problems when people misquote me.

As for her decisions and your statement that "no one is perfect"----after three years, you have to have to get your act together. You can't tell me, that you can't make a reasonable decision after that period of time. To still be making minute errors that result in disaster...that's a problem. Perfection is not demanded, logically thought decision making is.

Now then, people will say...well say that to the writers..they're writing the characters. Sure they are, but when people say that "no one is perfect" we're clearly looking at the character and not the writers...although that could be said about the writers then. All in all, since we are looking at the character as the defence for her bad decision making is "no one is perfect"---No one is perfect when you burn a cake. No one is perfect when you forget your anniversary. No one is perfect when they get a 90 on a test when they normally get a 100. Someone, however, is accuntable no matter how "not perfect" they are when hundreds of lives are in danger because of poor execution.

If the IOA didn't like her, she would've been gone a long time ago. But she has everyones support - even Landry. And she has her teams respect. We know she has John's since he's defended her.

As for her decisions, she makes her decisions based on her teams recommendations. So I guess that means that John, Teyla and the rest of them made bad decisions/recommendations too.

To the comment in red...No Man's Land looked like they were prepping her out but she was backed up by Woolsey and most likely Jack. I really don't care if she has Landry's support, what's his role in the decision process of her staying or going? Landry has his own things to worry about. He seemed to be the messenger boy for the IOA.

To the comment in bold... No one is questioning who is loyal to her and who isn't. Are you misquoting me again? John wasn't even up for discussion. Sure John has defended her, but he is limited, until of course military intervention and he's ready to support what they say. For example, The Siege I or II? and First Strike---he is military after all and he defers to their authority when they are brought to Earth.


To the statement in magneta...Okay, I had to have a laugh at that one. Not because I'm mocking you, but really?! Let's be serious!! When has she ever taken John and Teyla's advice?! Really?! Give me an episode where you've seen her take their advice?!

Coup D'etat---she overruled John. Michael---she overruled them. Progeny---she overruled them.

Actually in season 2, she basically overruled much of what John has said. Excluding eps like Critical Mass (and The Tower)--where I felt the writers dropped the on both Weir and John---so that's whatever. <---What's funny about this ep is that she's defended as being really good. And sure I agreed with it, until I rewatched S1 and parts of S2---she was just OOC. But normally, she overrules them and doesn't take their advice----and those two eps in S2 didn't lead to the problems we had in S3. I'm talking about Michael's bug people and the Asurans knowing where we are can coming after us---resulting in Enemy number 2, Michael and his buggy baby's are no. 3.

Lastly on a note, she does go by other's recommendations. I won't say team because when looking at Heightmeyer and Beckett they weren't part of the team. And in Progeny, as in Michael, she blatantly ignored the team---mainly Ronon, John and Teyla. But you have to remember she is leader....and what's unfortunate she cannot make a good decision because she's not fully experienced in dealing with these situations or similar situations---as she said in Poisoning the Well, I believe. She was expecting candyland and instead got blair witch. So she makes poor decisions and as leader she makes final decisions. In th end, the leader takes the blame, no matter what. She was presented the good and the bad, and if she made a decision that resulted in the bad, it was her own perogative and she will pay the price.

When looking at Progeny and Michael---two of her larger mistakes, well...

I don't know what to say to that. She, as I said, blatantly ignored her military commander and the advice of her lead team to do what she wanted, which was a big mistake. I mean at that point, there's no to blame but her. And you can't tell me she didn't ignore them. Because she did, that's established.

The IOA doesn't like anyone.

I could believe that. I have never been introduced to them until No Man's Land, since I don't watch SG1. I can say however they remind me of my bootcamp sargeants, something along the lines of "talk to the hand, cause the ears ain't hearin' it!!" Plus her behaviour was lackluster, that's being kind.

I think they were hostile to Dr. Weir because the IOA thinks of Earth's situation first, whereas Elizabeth has to take into account Atlantis itself, Pegasus galaxy, AND Earth. After Woolsey stuck around to observe what duress the decisions by Atlantis' leadership were made, he went back and convinced the IOA that he didn't think a replacement would've been any better at that point in time.

Yup, but they looked prepped for her removal!!

I cannot think of a reason why Dr. Weir would be forced to work for the IOA, nor can I think of a reason she'd want to work for an organization whose ideals clash so much with her own. After all, they removed her in The Return, too. Well, the Ancients did, but no one went to the mat on her behalf and instead installed one on their own members.

Thank You!! That's what I was wondering, you're just kinder than me.

I have no idea what season 4 holds in store for her, but I will say I hope the aftermath of her removal, however it happens, is portrayed better than that of another character who exited. If they gloss over it, I think I'll be mightily disappointed.

Meh...we have to wait and see that one. I'm not holding my breath. I'd just like them to hold off on more dead bodies, or at least explosions. TPTB likes blowing up or blowing away people. It makes me quesy.

[Suzotchka]

I never said that no one likes Weir. I said that the IOA didn't look like they liked Weir. Read the quote. I really have problems when people misquote me.

As for her decisions and your statement that "no one is perfect"----after three years, you have to have to get your act together. You can't tell me, that you can't make a reasonable decision after that period of time. To still be making minute errors that result in disaster...that's a problem. Perfection is not demanded, logically thought decision making is.

Now then, people will say...well say that to the writers..they're writing the characters. Sure they are, but when people say that "no one is perfect" we're clearly looking at the character and not the writers...although that could be said about the writers then. All in all, since we are looking at the character as the defence for her bad decision making is "no one is perfect"---No one is perfect when you burn a cake. No one is perfect when you forget your anniversary. No one is perfect when they get a 90 on a test when they normally get a 100. Someone, however, is accuntable no matter how "not perfect" they are when hundreds of lives are in danger because of poor execution.





To the comment in red...No Man's Land looked like they were prepping her out but she was backed up by Woolsey and most likely Jack. I really don't care if she has Landry's support, what's his role in the decision process of her staying or going? Landry has his own things to worry about. He seemed to be the messenger boy for the IOA.

To the comment in bold... No one is questioning who is loyal to her and who isn't. Are you misquoting me again? John wasn't even up for discussion. Sure John has defended her, but he is limited, until of course military intervention and he's ready to support what they say. For example, The Siege I or II? and First Strike---he is military after all and he defers to their authority when they are brought to Earth.


To the statement in magneta...Okay, I had to have a laugh at that one. Not because I'm mocking you, but really?! Let's be serious!! When has she ever taken John and Teyla's advice?! Really?! Give me an episode where you've seen her take their advice?!

Coup D'etat---she overruled John. Michael---she overruled them. Progeny---she overruled them.

Actually in season 2, she basically overruled much of what John has said. Excluding eps like Critical Mass (and The Tower)--where I felt the writers dropped the on both Weir and John---so that's whatever. <---What's funny about this ep is that she's defended as being really good. And sure I agreed with it, until I rewatched S1 and parts of S2---she was just OOC. But normally, she overrules them and doesn't take their advice----and those two eps in S2 didn't lead to the problems we had in S3. I'm talking about Michael's bug people and the Asurans knowing where we are can coming after us---resulting in Enemy number 2, Michael and his buggy baby's are no. 3.

Lastly on a note, she does go by other's recommendations. I won't say team because when looking at Heightmeyer and Beckett they weren't part of the team. And in Progeny, as in Michael, she blatantly ignored the team---mainly Ronon, John and Teyla. But you have to remember she is leader....and what's unfortunate she cannot make a good decision because she's not fully experienced in dealing with these situations or similar situations---as she said in Poisoning the Well, I believe. She was expecting candyland and instead got blair witch. So she makes poor decisions and as leader she makes final decisions. In th end, the leader takes the blame, no matter what. She was presented the good and the bad, and if she made a decision that resulted in the bad, it was her own perogative and she will pay the price.

When looking at Progeny and Michael---two of her larger mistakes, well...

I don't know what to say to that. She, as I said, blatantly ignored her military commander and the advice of her lead team to do what she wanted, which was a big mistake. I mean at that point, there's no to blame but her. And you can't tell me she didn't ignore them. Because she did, that's established.



I could believe that. I have never been introduced to them until No Man's Land, since I don't watch SG1. I can say however they remind me of my bootcamp sargeants, something along the lines of "talk to the hand, cause the ears ain't hearin' it!!" Plus her behaviour was lackluster, that's being kind.


Yup, but they looked prepped for her removal!!


Thank You!! That's what I was wondering, you're just kinder than me.



Meh...we have to wait and see that one. I'm not holding my breath. I'd just like them to hold off on more dead bodies, or at least explosions. TPTB likes blowing up or blowing away people. It makes me quesy.

We all know that you do not like Weir. And no matter what 'proof' anyone here offers or whatever episode dialogue I quote, it will never be enough for you. I'm being honest here. Your intense dislike for Weir comes through in every post. Which is fine. You're allowed to not like Weir.

I'm not going to keep defending her to you because as I said, you will always see other characters as being perfect and Weir as being responsible for any and all decisions made on Atlantis.

[Steve_the_Wraith]

Vaberella put alot of effort into that, I think its rude to dissmiss people who have other opinions to you just because they have different opinions.

If you want to say Vaberella is wrong then say so as part of a rational arguement. Saying "You don't like Weir therefore you can't raise any valid points" is illogical

[Suzotchka]

Vaberella put alot of effort into that, I think its rude to dissmiss people who have other opinions to you just because they have different opinions.

If you want to say Vaberella is wrong then say so as part of a rational arguement

So now you are calling me names? Just because I have a different opinion then you? I made an honest reply and I don't appreciate you telling me otherwise.

She is entitled to her beliefs and so am I.

I've made numerous vaild points before. But none seem to be good enough.

[Falcon Horus]

Vaberella put alot of effort into that, I think its rude to dissmiss people who have other opinions to you just because they have different opinions.

I don't think Suz is dismissing Vaberella's opinion, on the contrary she acknowledges she doesn't like Weir and as such decides to stop defending the character since there is seemingly no way to find a compromise.

[Steve_the_Wraith]

So now you are calling me names? Just because I have a different opinion then you? I made an honest reply and I don't appreciate you telling me otherwise.

She is entitled to her beliefs and so am I.

I've made numerous vaild points before. But none seem to be good enough.

I never called you any name, I just said I thought you were rude.

Of course you are entitled to your beliefs, I never said anything against Weir

[Suzotchka]

ITA with what you just said. The many discussions of whether or not Weir's decisions were bad have gone on ad nauseum. It's time to agree that some people think that she was a bad leader and others think she was a good leader. All of us can quote lines and bring up things in the show to back up our opinions.

The character of Weir was never intended to be perfect, and neither was any other character on the show. How interesting would that be? The whole idea is that they have collectively done things that made the whole situation worse. At every turn it has been stated that Weir has the support of the President. She has been written as an experienced leader and negotiator who is well respected and trusted by the leaders of Earth.

The fact that TPTB have decided to remove her from the show in S4 has little to do with anything that has gone before. The writers are the ones who in S3 chose to make her less a part of the action. It was a creative decision that they made for their own reasons, and it will remain to be seen what effect it has on the show.

Your are absolutely right SR.